4 ms·

I like to point out that if your hardware is compromise then it doesn't matter what you run on top of it. If you are being actively targeted by state actors(fbi

I like to point out that if your hardware is compromise then it doesn't matter what you run on top of it. If you are being actively targeted by state actors(fbi,nsa,cia,etc) then your computer is more than likely compromised.

panarky 8y ago
If you think the FSB is after you then you'll need better countermeasures than just running Tails on your own machine. For the rest of us, Tails and Qubes are big improvements over an HP laptop with Windows and its ecosystem of bloatware and spyware.
- greggarious 8y ago
  "They" can't target you if they don't know who you are to begin with. A milquetoast public persona coupled with extensive Tor usage is quite privacy protecting :)
  - daotoad 8y ago
    Well, you just blew your cover. They're watching you now. Alternatively, everyone could pretend to be a muslim-environmentalist-communist with strong interests in nuclear chemistry and virology. It isn't possible to watch everyone. Crap, they're gonna be watching me, now, too. Are you sure you aren't an agent provocateur?
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - greggarious 8y ago
      >Well, you just blew your cover. They're watching you now. "They're" watching everyone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora Parsing through all that data is an unsolved problem however: https://www.zdnet.com/article/nsa-whistleblower-overwhelmed-with-data-ineffective/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/nsa-whistleblower-overwhelmed-...
      - sneak 8y ago
        They don’t need to parse all that data; simply the full take of everyone who’s ever searched for Tails, or visited the Tails website, or run Tor.
        greggarious 8y ago
        > They don’t need to parse all that data; simply the full take of everyone who’s ever searched for Tails, or visited the Tails website, or run Tor. And what? Retain all their traffic til the end of days? Even if you restrict your selectors to Tor fans, that's still a massive amount of data.
        sneak 8y ago
        It’s not a lot on the scale we’re discussing.
- wpdev_63 8y ago
  .... I don't know if the FSB has the technical capability but the super cyber forces do(us and china).
greggarious 8y ago
Please don't encourage security nihilism[1]. There are very real measures people can take to protect their privacy, and convincing people otherwise creates harm. [1] https://noncombatant.org/2016/01/28/against-security-nihilism/ https://noncombatant.org/2016/01/28/against-security-nihilis...
sandworm101 8y ago
>> If you are being actively targeted by state actors(fbi,nsa,cia,etc) The FBI is currently investigating hundreds, thousands, of drug-related crimes. They aren't deploying advanced firmware exploits on a daily basis. If you buy a laptop from a local store, and then run something like Tails from day one, the chances of them installing a firmware exploit remotely is nill. If you want to run Tails on your 5yo desktop that you use for Facebook, minecraft, porn, and for running your drug empire... then ya. Be worried. But running Tails on a new machine is safe.
- afturner 8y ago
  ahhh but where are you purchasing this "new" computer? It'd be foolish to assume that all new devices are clean.
  - willvarfar 8y ago
    There are classic cases of machines being intercepted in the post (including the cipher machines posted to the US Embassy in Moscow!). But if you go pick out a machine from a store and take it home immediately then the chances of it having something preinstalled specifically to target you is nil.
    - hhh 8y ago
      This is one of the reasons I like to purchase laptops/components etc in person.
    - greggarious 8y ago
      >if you go pick out a machine from a store and take it home immediately then the chances of it having something preinstalled specifically to target you is nil Well, the chances of having government installed malware is nil ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfish#Lenovo_security_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfish#Lenovo_security_inci... (Kidding aside, purchasing a laptop at a store then wiping it is probably reasonably secure for even more paranoid users)
- 8y ago
jacobsenscott 8y ago
If you are targeted by state actors it doesn't matter if your hardware is clean and your op-sec is tight because they can force you to reveal what is on your laptop. However things like tails, etc will continue to protected you from a lot of non-government surveillance (comcast, fb, google, etc) and lots of different types of malware. That is still valuable.
- baldfat 8y ago
  I have noticed that people who swear the government can't do anything right thinks they can do this dead on. My friend was investigated by the FBI for over 18 months. They acted in court that they miss everything all the time and was why they didn't have any video, audio (though several people were wired) or digital evidence and to please listen to the witnesses that got plea bargains after they got caught red handed committing several federal crimes and tax evasion of over $500,000. The audio sounded horrible. It was almost like listening to backward music lyrics and they could make you hear something possibly. I doubt they can do much besides a handful of people.
craftyguy 8y ago
By that same logic, you might as well stop eating/drinking, because you're just going to die anyways, regardless of what you do to stay alive.
eqdw 8y ago
A lot of us _aren't_ being _actively_ targeted by Three Letter Agencies, but are concerned about being passively targetted

panarky 8y ago

If you think the FSB is after you then you'll need better countermeasures than just running Tails on your own machine. For the rest of us, Tails and Qubes are big improvements over an HP laptop with Windows and its ecosystem of bloatware and spyware.

greggarious 8y ago
"They" can't target you if they don't know who you are to begin with. A milquetoast public persona coupled with extensive Tor usage is quite privacy protecting :)
- daotoad 8y ago
  Well, you just blew your cover. They're watching you now. Alternatively, everyone could pretend to be a muslim-environmentalist-communist with strong interests in nuclear chemistry and virology. It isn't possible to watch everyone. Crap, they're gonna be watching me, now, too. Are you sure you aren't an agent provocateur?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - greggarious 8y ago
    >Well, you just blew your cover. They're watching you now. "They're" watching everyone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora Parsing through all that data is an unsolved problem however: https://www.zdnet.com/article/nsa-whistleblower-overwhelmed-with-data-ineffective/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/nsa-whistleblower-overwhelmed-...
    - sneak 8y ago
      They don’t need to parse all that data; simply the full take of everyone who’s ever searched for Tails, or visited the Tails website, or run Tor.
      - greggarious 8y ago
        > They don’t need to parse all that data; simply the full take of everyone who’s ever searched for Tails, or visited the Tails website, or run Tor. And what? Retain all their traffic til the end of days? Even if you restrict your selectors to Tor fans, that's still a massive amount of data.
        sneak 8y ago
        It’s not a lot on the scale we’re discussing.
wpdev_63 8y ago
.... I don't know if the FSB has the technical capability but the super cyber forces do(us and china).

greggarious 8y ago

Please don't encourage security nihilism[1]. There are very real measures people can take to protect their privacy, and convincing people otherwise creates harm. [1] https://noncombatant.org/2016/01/28/against-security-nihilism/ https://noncombatant.org/2016/01/28/against-security-nihilis...

sandworm101 8y ago

>> If you are being actively targeted by state actors(fbi,nsa,cia,etc) The FBI is currently investigating hundreds, thousands, of drug-related crimes. They aren't deploying advanced firmware exploits on a daily basis. If you buy a laptop from a local store, and then run something like Tails from day one, the chances of them installing a firmware exploit remotely is nill. If you want to run Tails on your 5yo desktop that you use for Facebook, minecraft, porn, and for running your drug empire... then ya. Be worried. But running Tails on a new machine is safe.

afturner 8y ago
ahhh but where are you purchasing this "new" computer? It'd be foolish to assume that all new devices are clean.
- willvarfar 8y ago
  There are classic cases of machines being intercepted in the post (including the cipher machines posted to the US Embassy in Moscow!). But if you go pick out a machine from a store and take it home immediately then the chances of it having something preinstalled specifically to target you is nil.
  - hhh 8y ago
    This is one of the reasons I like to purchase laptops/components etc in person.
  - greggarious 8y ago
    >if you go pick out a machine from a store and take it home immediately then the chances of it having something preinstalled specifically to target you is nil Well, the chances of having government installed malware is nil ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfish#Lenovo_security_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfish#Lenovo_security_inci... (Kidding aside, purchasing a laptop at a store then wiping it is probably reasonably secure for even more paranoid users)
8y ago

jacobsenscott 8y ago

If you are targeted by state actors it doesn't matter if your hardware is clean and your op-sec is tight because they can force you to reveal what is on your laptop. However things like tails, etc will continue to protected you from a lot of non-government surveillance (comcast, fb, google, etc) and lots of different types of malware. That is still valuable.

baldfat 8y ago
I have noticed that people who swear the government can't do anything right thinks they can do this dead on. My friend was investigated by the FBI for over 18 months. They acted in court that they miss everything all the time and was why they didn't have any video, audio (though several people were wired) or digital evidence and to please listen to the witnesses that got plea bargains after they got caught red handed committing several federal crimes and tax evasion of over $500,000. The audio sounded horrible. It was almost like listening to backward music lyrics and they could make you hear something possibly. I doubt they can do much besides a handful of people.

craftyguy 8y ago

By that same logic, you might as well stop eating/drinking, because you're just going to die anyways, regardless of what you do to stay alive.

eqdw 8y ago

A lot of us _aren't_ being _actively_ targeted by Three Letter Agencies, but are concerned about being passively targetted