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The Ministry of Truth has no record of one "John Oliver"[1] [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_hole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_hole

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
stcredzero 8y ago
George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair,) was a lifelong avowed socialist. However, the Memory Hole was an observation squarely aimed at the behavior of the Far Left. Beware of those who push a narrative against the facts.
- Daishiman 8y ago
  No, it was an observation against authoritarianism. You do know that Orwell was, above all, anti-fascist and anti-Stalinist right?
  - mikeash 8y ago
    Lots of people don’t seem to understand that it’s possible to be both socialist and anti-Stalinist.
    - icebraining 8y ago
      It's even possible to be socialist and non-Marxist, and certainly anti-Bolshevik.
      - bobwaycott 8y ago
        It’s also possible to be Marxist, socialist, and vehemently anti-Stalinist.
        stcredzero 8y ago
        At this point, I'm reminded of the jail cell scene in "Kentucky Fried Movie."
        bobwaycott 8y ago
        Haha. For sure. :)
    - stcredzero 8y ago
      However, the only socialist countries that survive without devolving into totalitarianism seem to do so because they allow for a burgeoning capitalist economy.
- Covzire 8y ago
  I Think Orwell's point about socialism was far more pointed then that. Orwell in his travels, written partly about in "The road to Wigan Pier" partly illustrated the recurring theme we see in society where people (who will inevitiably rise to power, unless stopped) will use socialism not as a tool for lifting everyone up but explicitly to tear their perceived enemies down, something that has never resulted in a better society by any metric unless "well at least everyone is miserable" is your primary goal.
- coliveira 8y ago
  George Orwell was against all kinds of authoritarianism. A large portion of the left has always disavowed authoritarianism as well, so there is no conflict here.
  - EGreg 8y ago
    In fact libertarians were originally socialists, railing against capitalism as a tool of the state, back when the state used to break up eg strikes with violence. See Oscar Wilde for instance, “Man’s soul under socialism.”
    - AndyPandy 8y ago
      Libertarianism is only really considered fiscally conservative in the US.
    - icebraining 8y ago
      The word still carries that connotation in some places. The Center of Libertarian Culture, in my EU country, is left-wing anarchist.
      - tomjakubowski 8y ago
        I know anarchism isn't the same as libertarianism, but in that vein, there is a legendary post from the ancap subreddit about one naïve American's confusion hanging out with Greek anarchists. https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/3ucp8y/i_was_beat_up_by_left_anarchists_in_greece/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/3ucp8y/...
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    'George Orwell' is a fictional character. Real name: 'Eric Blair' who went to Church every Sunday, though I think he was kind of an Atheist. Not the same dude as Orwell. He had complicated views, and was not a 'socialist' in the more popular sense. Remember in 1984 that the 'bad guys' ideology is 'IngSoc', i.e. 'English Socialism'. So not exactly a big Social Dem supporter of the era.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

stcredzero 8y ago

George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair,) was a lifelong avowed socialist. However, the Memory Hole was an observation squarely aimed at the behavior of the Far Left. Beware of those who push a narrative against the facts.

Daishiman 8y ago
No, it was an observation against authoritarianism. You do know that Orwell was, above all, anti-fascist and anti-Stalinist right?
- mikeash 8y ago
  Lots of people don’t seem to understand that it’s possible to be both socialist and anti-Stalinist.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    It's even possible to be socialist and non-Marxist, and certainly anti-Bolshevik.
    - bobwaycott 8y ago
      It’s also possible to be Marxist, socialist, and vehemently anti-Stalinist.
      - stcredzero 8y ago
        At this point, I'm reminded of the jail cell scene in "Kentucky Fried Movie."
        bobwaycott 8y ago
        Haha. For sure. :)
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    However, the only socialist countries that survive without devolving into totalitarianism seem to do so because they allow for a burgeoning capitalist economy.
Covzire 8y ago
I Think Orwell's point about socialism was far more pointed then that. Orwell in his travels, written partly about in "The road to Wigan Pier" partly illustrated the recurring theme we see in society where people (who will inevitiably rise to power, unless stopped) will use socialism not as a tool for lifting everyone up but explicitly to tear their perceived enemies down, something that has never resulted in a better society by any metric unless "well at least everyone is miserable" is your primary goal.
coliveira 8y ago
George Orwell was against all kinds of authoritarianism. A large portion of the left has always disavowed authoritarianism as well, so there is no conflict here.
- EGreg 8y ago
  In fact libertarians were originally socialists, railing against capitalism as a tool of the state, back when the state used to break up eg strikes with violence. See Oscar Wilde for instance, “Man’s soul under socialism.”
  - AndyPandy 8y ago
    Libertarianism is only really considered fiscally conservative in the US.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    The word still carries that connotation in some places. The Center of Libertarian Culture, in my EU country, is left-wing anarchist.
    - tomjakubowski 8y ago
      I know anarchism isn't the same as libertarianism, but in that vein, there is a legendary post from the ancap subreddit about one naïve American's confusion hanging out with Greek anarchists. https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/3ucp8y/i_was_beat_up_by_left_anarchists_in_greece/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/3ucp8y/...
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  'George Orwell' is a fictional character. Real name: 'Eric Blair' who went to Church every Sunday, though I think he was kind of an Atheist. Not the same dude as Orwell. He had complicated views, and was not a 'socialist' in the more popular sense. Remember in 1984 that the 'bad guys' ideology is 'IngSoc', i.e. 'English Socialism'. So not exactly a big Social Dem supporter of the era.