10 ms·
Pain27 keyboard
- glitchc 8y agoWhy?
- TylerE 8y agoIndeed. Given that they ended up using a rectangular footprint, why not at least include some modifier keys.
- canadaj 8y ago>"The pain27 is an open source keyboard project to make an easily usable, yet completely and utterly unusable qwerty keyboard with all the letters of the english alphabet, a spacebar, and nothing else"
- TylerE 8y agoYeah, but I mean.... to quote...something or other "Just because you can doesn't mean you should".
- Infernal 8y agoHowever... something something contrapositive, "Just because you shouldn't doesn't mean you can't"
- laumars 8y agoWhy play board games, take your car to track days, or go for long walks in the sun? What you're arguing is that people should spend their free time doing things they enjoy.
- TylerE 8y agoI mean, sure, whatever, but this feels more like going to a track day and then putting a donut spare on one corner.
- laumars 8y agoSome people do like to drive old bangers. You're being highly judgemental about something that doesn't affect you in the slightest. Plus I'm sure you have plenty of interests that many of us would be like "what's the point?"
- w0m 8y agoI think this follows the axiom, 'If you have to ask...'
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- bitwize 8y agoYour scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could that they never stopped to think if they should.
- y2bd 8y agoAs a keyboard enthusiast, when I’m not huffing solder or lubricating plastics or waiting for my IMSTO caps, I spend the rest of my time on typing test websites like 10fastfingers or TypeRacer. The Pain27 is optimized for that experience.
- fredley 8y agoBecause if you want a nice functional keyboard you can just buy one. Making this deliberately useless keyboard prevents it from ever being a primarily functional item. This allows you to treat the project entirely as a creative endeavor, and not end up falling down rabbit holes that might otherwise prevent you from completing or enjoying it.
- pavel_lishin 8y ago> This allows you to treat the project entirely as a creative endeavor, and not end up falling down rabbit holes that might otherwise prevent you from completing or enjoying it. Watch me!
- tlrobinson 8y agoA hacker never needs to ask "why?"
- Fnoord 8y agoAsking yourself questions is part of being curious. If you can't figure it out, expressing your lack of knowledge takes courage.
- tlrobinson 8y agoI agree, if it's genuine curiosity and not someone just being dismissive, as it often is on the internet.
- Fnoord 8y agoWe can assume the most positive meaning of the expressed text.
- mds 8y agoA video of someone actually building and typing on one of these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIDs8tq5Pa4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIDs8tq5Pa4
- faitswulff 8y agoThis was captivating. Love that he goes through the entire build process and then at the end says: > As for the actual usability, it’s terrible. Absolutely terrible. I didn’t even try to use it for more than a couple of minutes because I don’t have the time. This is purely a display piece, because for anything that isn’t a speed typing test, it was just too much to access the other keys.
- kevinmgranger 8y ago> an easily usable, yet ... utterly unusable I love it.
- Animats 8y agoA keyboard with only letters, numbers, and space only has its uses. You can still fill out forms. Some kiosks have keyboards like that.
- Aloha 8y agoThis seems to be the opposite direction of what I like out of keyboards. I want more keys - keys I can program to do things - not less keys.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- organsnyder 8y agoI think (I hope...) this particular keyboard is a satirical commentary on the shrinking keyboards in the mechanical keyboard community. I do agree with you, though—I don't understand the trend toward less keys.
- chipotle_coyote 8y ago+1, this. Semi-seriously, I appreciate the Pain27 as an art/hacking project and having a bit of fun with the "less keys are always better," but I don't understand the value of making desktop keyboards -- that is, ones that aren't intended to be portable -- ever more "compact." Removing the number keypad makes sense if you don't use it, and if you keep your mouse/trackpad on the right side of your keyboard. But I use the navigation keys pretty regularly; I don't use the function keys that often, but use them often enough that I notice when they're not there. And if portability is the actual concern, well, you probably want something thinner than most mechanical keyboards unless you're really dedicated. I just ordered another mechanical myself (a KBParadise V80 with Matias Quiet Click switches) so I could have one at work and one at home, which I suspect qualifies me as dedicated -- but for a keyboard I'm actually carrying around with me in a bag, I'll take Apple's Magic Keyboard or something from Logitech of comparable size and weight, thanks. So, 60%-and-below keyboard nerds: what is it I'm missing?
- function_seven 8y agoI have a 60% (I think. Not sure how the percentages are figured). It's also ortholinear, and it gave me a chance to reinvent the layout and what keys should appear. (https://i.imgur.com/9F0k3zv.jpg https://i.imgur.com/9F0k3zv.jpg, and https://imgur.com/yMdkEnP.jpg https://imgur.com/yMdkEnP.jpg) I ditched the number pad, the function keys, and the navigation cluster. That freed up room to separate the two halves of the keyboard and put a bunch of symbols in the center. I've always wanted to use hjkl as my arrow keys anyway, now I can do that. Function keys used to be a stretch to get to, and I could never touch type them. Now I can. My next plan is to add another row across the top for macros, and a few more columns in the center to separate my hands even more. The end result will be a keyboard that's almost as large as a standard one, but with no useless crap hanging off the right side :)
- ChuckMcM 8y agoWow, aptly named. Now with a couple of foot pedals, one for shift and one for control? That could be something.
- vertexFarm 8y agoNow to be fair, it would be a little absurd to build the most compact possible keyboard, yet get stuck carrying around some foot pedals like you're headed to a lan party with racing games or something. But sometimes a little absurd is cool when it comes to custom keyboards. I kind of want to build this or the Gherkin posted above!
- pavel_lishin 8y agoI agree, that's ridiculous. Clearly, a sip/puff/bite controller would be more convenient, both in terms of compactness and usability.
- ChuckMcM 8y agoTrue, but these days you could put a couple of wireless accelerometers into the shoelaces of each shoe and have that be your pedals. if they had LEDs and blinked they would be chic coture :-)
- leoc 8y agoYes, a Bluetooth 6DOF accelerometer/orientation sensor/magnetometer affixed to each shoe and you're sorted. I've long wanted to see a pair of such sensors set up as MIDI controllers. If you're using them on uneven or moving surfaces you might want separate sensors for heel and toe.
- jaffee 8y agoIf you like this, see http://www.40percent.club/ http://www.40percent.club/ In particular: http://www.40percent.club/2016/11/gherkin.html http://www.40percent.club/2016/11/gherkin.html
- LukeShu 8y ago(The Gherkin is a 30%, not a 40%!) I mean people actually use and enjoy for day-to-day use 40% keyboards like the Planck. I don't think they Pain27 is to be used by anyone for anything other than WPM tests.
- DavidVoid 8y agoIf you're interested in getting a tiny keyboard then there are actually quite a few other "too" small custom keyboards which unlike the one in the OP are fairly usable. Some examples: The ortholinear layout Gherkin: http://www.40percent.club/2016/11/gherkin.html http://www.40percent.club/2016/11/gherkin.html The THKB - Tiny Hacking Keyboard: https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/thkb-tiny-hacking-keyboard-40-t6455.html https://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/thkb-tiny-hacking-keyboa... The split MiniDox: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/6rh8mp/my_mini_dox/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/6rh8mp... Personally I use a slightly larger 60% HHKB Pro 2 which imo has a great layout (and fantastic switches!): https://www.keychatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/keychatter_2015-02-24_20-59-34.jpg https://www.keychatter.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/keycha...
- miguelrochefort 8y agoWhy aren't all keyboards ortholinear? Designing keyboards with staggered keys is absurd.
- pjc50 8y agoStaggered is easier to type on, especially with small keyboards. Prevents you having to angle your wrists too much.
- miguelrochefort 8y agoThis is not true. What makes you think that?
- naikrovek 8y agoJust picture how your wrists need to hold your hands so that fingers extend straight up from the home row. Unless your rib cage is infinitely thin, or your arms infinitely long, your arms are going to come together on that keyboard at angles that diverge strongly from the line between your solarplexus and the center of your monitor(s). Your wrists have to twist your hands enough to make your fingers point parallel to that imaginary line. There is AT LEAST one very good reason that ortholinear keyboards have not taken off, and I've just described it.
- SideburnsOfDoom 8y agoThey don't really say what causes the pain part, which seems a major oversight. I assume it's nothing but sheer tiny size? Maybe you could tap at it with some kind of pointed thimble on the finger.
- ams6110 8y agoNot really too much worse than the old TI-99/4A keyboard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_TI-99/4A#/media/File:TI99-IMG_7132.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_TI-99/4A#/me...
- pm215 8y agoMan, the number of times I hit function-= (reset the computer) on that thing when I meant shift-=... lots of lost unsaved work.
- miguelrochefort 8y agoWhy do all keyboard projects use staggered keys? This is asymmetric, more complicated, and less ergonomic. The space bar where both thumbs perform the same action is also ridiculous.
- d4l3k 8y agoThere's a ton of keyboards that have ortholinear or ergonomic layouts. Some people just like the aesthetics of staggered keys over the alternatives.
- miguelrochefort 8y agoI'm pretty sure these people aren't aware that ortholinear keyboards exist, or know that they're a better design.
- notananthem 8y agoI like the JD45/JD40 which I use daily, this is annoying
- Fnoord 8y agoThe backwards compatibility users require (myself included) holds back innovation, in so many ways. The problem with any non-standard keyboard is it being non-standard. The biggest problem is a different layout than Qwerty (though its a bit more complex; e.g. Azerty is standard in Belgium, Colemak is only marginally different from Qwerty, whereas Dvorak is completely different). If the layout sticks to the defacto standard (Qwerty) then you can argue less is more. However, there are some minimum needs and once keys have different positions compared to a dumbed down Qwerty keyboard (without keypad or keypad + arrows + the other [6 + 3] keys on the right). It also depends on what you're used to. Having used the keyboard on Nokia E71 and Nokia N900 and Nokia N810 I lost a lot of CLI speed just from factors such as: non-standard keybinds (e.g. requiring combos for standard Bash and Emacs keybinds), non-standard amount of keys, small keys, with not much travel. There are many examples mentioned in this thread. Some membrane, some mechanical, but generally full size keys just without keys such as spacebar, enter, tab, caps, alt, etc. The only keys which can be removed from a keyboard without compromising UNIX CLI usage are caps lock and "function" (Windows key etc). With the notion that caps lock is already rebinded to escape by Vi(m) users.
- WalterGR 8y agoDo “open” keyboard designs for more traditional keyboards exist?
- kugestu 8y agoI really believe the term "open source" should be avoided if the project is not under an real open source licence: https://opensource.org/osd https://opensource.org/osd E.g. this uses a "Creative Commons BY-NC-ND" license which contains: "NoDerivatives — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you may not distribute the modified material". So it restricts some rights that one would usually expect from an "open source" project, which can be confusing (https://opensource.org/faq#avoid-unapproved-licenses https://opensource.org/faq#avoid-unapproved-licenses) Cool project otherwise!