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I'll quote Richard White's answer on Quora to the question "What was the worst thing your parents ever did to you?" > Every day from as early as I can remember

I'll quote Richard White's answer on Quora to the question "What was the worst thing your parents ever did to you?" > Every day from as early as I can remember, they were clearly and obviously in love with each other. Even after 50 years of marriage they were still acting like two teenagers going steady. They always supported each other in everything they did or tried to do. They "had each other's backs" at all times. > I have spent my life trying to find that same kind of relationship - and haven't been able to. > They unknowingly set the bar too high, I guess. Like Richard, my parents had an essentially perfect marriage for 18 years until my mother passed away from cancer. They never fought. Ever. They were truly each other's best friend. I guess as a kid I just assumed that all marriages were like that since I didn't grow up knowing otherwise. My biggest dream in life had always been to have a marriage like theirs. My own marriage just passed the one year mark, and unfortunately it has been a disaster so far. I'm crushed in so many ways, and it's really just taken the spirit out of me. I hope we can fix it (with counseling) but I'm not sure if we can truly ever recover; I have too much resentment over what has been said and done to me at this point.

everdev 8y ago
I'm sorry to hear about the pain you've received in your marriage. Sometimes seeing counselors individually can help if the dynamic between you is too toxic. That way you can unload and process your feelings without causing further pain to each other. Then, once you've reconnected with yourself you can come together in a more constructive and intentional way to repair if you choose to do so. It's also common for parents to hide their fighting from their kids. Unfortunately, this also hides how they resolve conflict so we have to learn that later in life. Relationships are not about fixing the perfect match that is in alignment with your wants and desires, but about finding someone who will help you grow. It sounds like your partner has introduced you to conflict and conflict resolution which sucks in the moment, but if you can make it through and grow from it will help with your relationship or any future ones you pursue.
ScottBurson 8y ago
No marriage is perfect. Every couple fights sometimes, if both people are being real with each other, and if they're not, that's a huge problem in itself. (I think everdev is probably right: they didn't let you see them fighting.) The goal is not to never fight; it's to always fight fair. Sounds like your parents didn't show you how to do that — which is too bad, if they themselves knew, because most people don't. In any case, you now need to learn how, and any relationship you're in is a great place to start. If you reach a point where you know you're fighting fair but your spouse isn't, and doesn't seem to care that they're not, that's a reasonable time to give up on the relationship. Reread everdev's reply too — it's really good. Good luck!
- logicchains 8y ago
  >No marriage is perfect. Every couple fights sometimes, if both people are being real with each other, and if they're not, that's a huge problem in itself. Buying into this argument that "every couple fight sometimes" is why so many people never eliminate fights from their relationships, because they think it's normal and so never put the effort into bettering themselves and addressing the root causes of problems so that fights don't reoccur. It's much easier to treat fights as inevitable than work on improving one's own self-control, compassion and empathy.
  - rayiner 8y ago
    You make an interesting point. Most people would for example never shout at a coworker, but people consider shouting in an argument with one's spouse fairly routine.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      The stakes are lower at work and less (if at all) emotional at least for me. At the end of the day I really don’t care enough about a job to get upset. My job is just a paycheck. It’s purely transactional. My job is disposable. If my job causes me stress over a prolonged period of time, I can easily find another one without any regret. I haven’t invested anything emotionally into my job. My marriage on the other hand is different. I’m not saying that is an excuse for fighting unfairly or being hurtful. But my wife, my parents, and my (step)sons are the only people I have a deep emotional connection to that I won’t separate myself from awhile if they get on my nerves.
  - watwut 8y ago
    The root cause of fight is that partners disagree over something that is important to both (likely related to some core value). The contributing factor is oftentimes stress, people are not able to be perfect under stress and sleep deprivation. Self-control and compassion don't make disagreement or bad feelings over important things disappear. They are still present. The "never fight" relationships (not just marriage, but also friendships) are either "we do things as separately as possible" or one of the two ceased to talk about his or her issues. The latter are then "I had not idea partner is unhappy and bam shock divorce" situations. The easiest way how to keep calm is not to care. It does not have to be screaming match, but if you never disagree about things like child raising, it is likely that one did checked out.
cup-of-tea 8y ago
Had you never lived together before marriage and maybe hadn't been together very long beforehand? Or did getting married actually change something? Or maybe the marriage was a bandage for an already failing relationship?
Renaud 8y ago
Kindness appears to me as the decisive element for a successful relationship. It’s not the only one of course since there are many other factors that must be handled successfully (managing sexual satisfaction, financial stability, common life goals, ability to raise kids, etc) but kindness to each other is a determinant; it’s the ‘sauce’ that binds everything together and make it hold. And it must be reciprocated. If you are in a relationship where there is no way to get that, and counselling isn’t helping enough, the future will most likely be bleak: full of accrued resentment, feelings of being trapped that get worse as time goes by, bitterness and pettiness will rule your life. People always hope that things will get better and if the relationship is worth it, it’s essential to fight to overcome the struggles, but if there is no foundation of kindness, I’m convinced the only outcome is misery. We shouldn’t stay with someone out of fear of being alone.
- mmsimanga 8y ago
  I want to add that kindness should be paired with gratitude. I know that people shouldn't expect anything back from kind acts but sometimes being kind isn't so easy. When someone is grateful for your kindness it makes things it easier. In long relationships showing gratitude is even more important.
  - EGreg 8y ago
    Agreed. But you can do it the other way. You can be grateful FIRST for your partner and that will bring out your kindness.
    - mmsimanga 8y ago
      No disagreement with your sentiment. To expand on my parent comment, I find once off acts of kindness easy. I can buy you a coffee, heck even two or three. When we get to number 10 maybe 20 I start to have reservations and negative thoughts on where this is all headed. I think relationships start out the similarly. Both sides show their best side. Afterall which woman/man are you going to woo showing how selfish you can be. So we start off on our best behaviour, the honeymoon phase. Then to perpertuate the kindness and consideration we show in the honeymoon phase both sides have to show appreciation and gratitude. What complicates gratitude in my opinion is our expectation and how we value different acts of kindness. In large parts of Africa women are still expected do the cooking. It is easy for a man to think that task is her duty anyway so no need to be thankful. I think this is where problems start. You are absolutely right, we should be grateful first for the people in our lives.
lordnacho 8y ago
Keep in mind your memory of your parents tends to start well into your childhood. You might have been as old as 10 before there's anything in there at all about how your parents behaved towards each other. Certainly 5. I say this because when kids are small, they stress the hell out out their parents. And that stress often turns into arguments. Little sleep, and endless menial tasks like cleaning poop does that even to people who never had any issues before. As the kids get older, there's less of the drudgery and the kids end up being more interesting. Less pressure on the relationship, and a huge relief as you slowly realise you've wiped your last poop. As stress recedes, kids are getting older and forming positive memories. Also remember survivorship bias. If you have a fight and get divorced before you have kids, there won't be any kids around to remember your happy marriage.
- scarface74 8y ago
  This exactly. My wife and I are both on our second marriage and we were in our mid 30s when we got married. She had two sons that she was raising alone. Ironically enough, the relationship with my stepsons was rock solid almost immediately, but the first four years of our marriage, it seems like we were contemplating divorce at least once every six months and would go weeks without speaking to each other. We were both older, set in our ways, and had different outlooks on a lot of things. But if you look at us now, you would think we are the perfect couple and our marriage is a well oiled machine . It took four years for us to get there. Our sons saw this first hand and were old enough to know what was going on. But if their earliest memories were us four to seven years into our marriage, out of the financial jams that we were both in when we got married, etc. Thier perspectives on how easy a great marriage is would be completely different. If I look at my parents marriage growing up, I would have idealized it too. My parents have been married for close to 50 years and together for almost 60 - they were high school sweethearts. By the time I was born, they had already been together for 14 years.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
maciejgryka 8y ago
Check out the book “The Course of Love” by Allain de Botton. I don’t think the problem is that the parents were happy! It’s that they were apparently unable to teach the being-happy-in-a-relationship skill to their kids. And it is a skill: more natural for some than others, but possible for everyone to learn and improve on with time and effort.
- EGreg 8y ago
  I don’t believe it is only a skill. If it were, a master could pick a random person on the street and have an amazing marriage with them. In my opinion, just like a job, there is only so much willpower and motivation you have. It’s a finite resource. A person that you are 1) Sexually attracted to 2) Emotionally connected with 3) Makes you happy by just being themselves Will make you happy and motivated to work things out, and vice versa. Saying it’s a skill is like saying working at a frustrating job for decades is a skill. Sure but why not find one you actually are happy to come to every day? The actual problem in today’s society is how much we expect from what we see is possible, versus how POOR matchmaking is today when you are single!
  - rayiner 8y ago
    Matchmaking is overrated, and people expect too much out of relationships. My family is from Bangladesh where the marriages, though typically not arranged per se, involve less of a "trying on clothes" aspect than in the U.S. It's not clear to me that marriages are any happier here. (People are of course more likely to get divorced here, but are likely to end up in a second or third marriage that is not particularly happy either.)
    - EGreg 8y ago
      I agree but I am not saying dating is the best way. The main thing for monogamous marriage is the matchmaking. When an entire village is involved, and they give you access to a huge pool of men and women ready to marry each other at the same time, that may be BETTER than the average dating strategy. Traditional societies have this all over the planet!
charlesdm 8y ago
My cousin has this with her husband. They're likely the best couple I have ever seen. Not a single fight, ever, afaik (from what her sister told me). They're best friends. Two great kids, wealthy and successful, and overall they just have a ton of fun together living and enjoying life.
- poisonarena 8y ago
  do you think wealthy and successful plays a role?
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    I have seen some things that suggest causation runs the other way: Good marriages lead to success and wealth. Bad ones lead to other outcomes, including divorce, which can be financially ruinous. There's always plenty of gossip in the news about rich people with bad marriages, infidelity, repeated divorce and remarriage etc. Though I imagine serious poverty doesn't generally improve a relationship.
  - Ma8ee 8y ago
    Not having to worry about money eliminates a lot of sources for conflict. It’s not a big deal if my wife splurges on something that I find pointless, and paying someone to clean means we don’t have to argue about the mess in the kitchen.
  - charlesdm 8y ago
    I would say no on the wealth part initially. But I think (being on the road to) success is a major part of what attracted her to him initially. They were already together for a few years when he almost went under with one of his companies, on the verge of losing millions of euros (and most of his capital at the time), and she helped turn it around by helping out as much as she could. Wealth however does make it possible to keep your lifestyle "fun" -- they travel frequently to interesting locations (a long trip every 3-4 months, sometimes with and sometimes without the kids) As far as true love goes, it sure seems like that is what they have.
laythea 8y ago
I would ask if you have kids?

everdev 8y ago

I'm sorry to hear about the pain you've received in your marriage. Sometimes seeing counselors individually can help if the dynamic between you is too toxic. That way you can unload and process your feelings without causing further pain to each other. Then, once you've reconnected with yourself you can come together in a more constructive and intentional way to repair if you choose to do so. It's also common for parents to hide their fighting from their kids. Unfortunately, this also hides how they resolve conflict so we have to learn that later in life. Relationships are not about fixing the perfect match that is in alignment with your wants and desires, but about finding someone who will help you grow. It sounds like your partner has introduced you to conflict and conflict resolution which sucks in the moment, but if you can make it through and grow from it will help with your relationship or any future ones you pursue.

ScottBurson 8y ago

No marriage is perfect. Every couple fights sometimes, if both people are being real with each other, and if they're not, that's a huge problem in itself. (I think everdev is probably right: they didn't let you see them fighting.) The goal is not to never fight; it's to always fight fair. Sounds like your parents didn't show you how to do that — which is too bad, if they themselves knew, because most people don't. In any case, you now need to learn how, and any relationship you're in is a great place to start. If you reach a point where you know you're fighting fair but your spouse isn't, and doesn't seem to care that they're not, that's a reasonable time to give up on the relationship. Reread everdev's reply too — it's really good. Good luck!

logicchains 8y ago
>No marriage is perfect. Every couple fights sometimes, if both people are being real with each other, and if they're not, that's a huge problem in itself. Buying into this argument that "every couple fight sometimes" is why so many people never eliminate fights from their relationships, because they think it's normal and so never put the effort into bettering themselves and addressing the root causes of problems so that fights don't reoccur. It's much easier to treat fights as inevitable than work on improving one's own self-control, compassion and empathy.
- rayiner 8y ago
  You make an interesting point. Most people would for example never shout at a coworker, but people consider shouting in an argument with one's spouse fairly routine.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    The stakes are lower at work and less (if at all) emotional at least for me. At the end of the day I really don’t care enough about a job to get upset. My job is just a paycheck. It’s purely transactional. My job is disposable. If my job causes me stress over a prolonged period of time, I can easily find another one without any regret. I haven’t invested anything emotionally into my job. My marriage on the other hand is different. I’m not saying that is an excuse for fighting unfairly or being hurtful. But my wife, my parents, and my (step)sons are the only people I have a deep emotional connection to that I won’t separate myself from awhile if they get on my nerves.
- watwut 8y ago
  The root cause of fight is that partners disagree over something that is important to both (likely related to some core value). The contributing factor is oftentimes stress, people are not able to be perfect under stress and sleep deprivation. Self-control and compassion don't make disagreement or bad feelings over important things disappear. They are still present. The "never fight" relationships (not just marriage, but also friendships) are either "we do things as separately as possible" or one of the two ceased to talk about his or her issues. The latter are then "I had not idea partner is unhappy and bam shock divorce" situations. The easiest way how to keep calm is not to care. It does not have to be screaming match, but if you never disagree about things like child raising, it is likely that one did checked out.

cup-of-tea 8y ago

Had you never lived together before marriage and maybe hadn't been together very long beforehand? Or did getting married actually change something? Or maybe the marriage was a bandage for an already failing relationship?

Renaud 8y ago

Kindness appears to me as the decisive element for a successful relationship. It’s not the only one of course since there are many other factors that must be handled successfully (managing sexual satisfaction, financial stability, common life goals, ability to raise kids, etc) but kindness to each other is a determinant; it’s the ‘sauce’ that binds everything together and make it hold. And it must be reciprocated. If you are in a relationship where there is no way to get that, and counselling isn’t helping enough, the future will most likely be bleak: full of accrued resentment, feelings of being trapped that get worse as time goes by, bitterness and pettiness will rule your life. People always hope that things will get better and if the relationship is worth it, it’s essential to fight to overcome the struggles, but if there is no foundation of kindness, I’m convinced the only outcome is misery. We shouldn’t stay with someone out of fear of being alone.

mmsimanga 8y ago
I want to add that kindness should be paired with gratitude. I know that people shouldn't expect anything back from kind acts but sometimes being kind isn't so easy. When someone is grateful for your kindness it makes things it easier. In long relationships showing gratitude is even more important.
- EGreg 8y ago
  Agreed. But you can do it the other way. You can be grateful FIRST for your partner and that will bring out your kindness.
  - mmsimanga 8y ago
    No disagreement with your sentiment. To expand on my parent comment, I find once off acts of kindness easy. I can buy you a coffee, heck even two or three. When we get to number 10 maybe 20 I start to have reservations and negative thoughts on where this is all headed. I think relationships start out the similarly. Both sides show their best side. Afterall which woman/man are you going to woo showing how selfish you can be. So we start off on our best behaviour, the honeymoon phase. Then to perpertuate the kindness and consideration we show in the honeymoon phase both sides have to show appreciation and gratitude. What complicates gratitude in my opinion is our expectation and how we value different acts of kindness. In large parts of Africa women are still expected do the cooking. It is easy for a man to think that task is her duty anyway so no need to be thankful. I think this is where problems start. You are absolutely right, we should be grateful first for the people in our lives.

lordnacho 8y ago

Keep in mind your memory of your parents tends to start well into your childhood. You might have been as old as 10 before there's anything in there at all about how your parents behaved towards each other. Certainly 5. I say this because when kids are small, they stress the hell out out their parents. And that stress often turns into arguments. Little sleep, and endless menial tasks like cleaning poop does that even to people who never had any issues before. As the kids get older, there's less of the drudgery and the kids end up being more interesting. Less pressure on the relationship, and a huge relief as you slowly realise you've wiped your last poop. As stress recedes, kids are getting older and forming positive memories. Also remember survivorship bias. If you have a fight and get divorced before you have kids, there won't be any kids around to remember your happy marriage.

scarface74 8y ago
This exactly. My wife and I are both on our second marriage and we were in our mid 30s when we got married. She had two sons that she was raising alone. Ironically enough, the relationship with my stepsons was rock solid almost immediately, but the first four years of our marriage, it seems like we were contemplating divorce at least once every six months and would go weeks without speaking to each other. We were both older, set in our ways, and had different outlooks on a lot of things. But if you look at us now, you would think we are the perfect couple and our marriage is a well oiled machine . It took four years for us to get there. Our sons saw this first hand and were old enough to know what was going on. But if their earliest memories were us four to seven years into our marriage, out of the financial jams that we were both in when we got married, etc. Thier perspectives on how easy a great marriage is would be completely different. If I look at my parents marriage growing up, I would have idealized it too. My parents have been married for close to 50 years and together for almost 60 - they were high school sweethearts. By the time I was born, they had already been together for 14 years.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

maciejgryka 8y ago

Check out the book “The Course of Love” by Allain de Botton. I don’t think the problem is that the parents were happy! It’s that they were apparently unable to teach the being-happy-in-a-relationship skill to their kids. And it is a skill: more natural for some than others, but possible for everyone to learn and improve on with time and effort.

EGreg 8y ago
I don’t believe it is only a skill. If it were, a master could pick a random person on the street and have an amazing marriage with them. In my opinion, just like a job, there is only so much willpower and motivation you have. It’s a finite resource. A person that you are 1) Sexually attracted to 2) Emotionally connected with 3) Makes you happy by just being themselves Will make you happy and motivated to work things out, and vice versa. Saying it’s a skill is like saying working at a frustrating job for decades is a skill. Sure but why not find one you actually are happy to come to every day? The actual problem in today’s society is how much we expect from what we see is possible, versus how POOR matchmaking is today when you are single!
- rayiner 8y ago
  Matchmaking is overrated, and people expect too much out of relationships. My family is from Bangladesh where the marriages, though typically not arranged per se, involve less of a "trying on clothes" aspect than in the U.S. It's not clear to me that marriages are any happier here. (People are of course more likely to get divorced here, but are likely to end up in a second or third marriage that is not particularly happy either.)
  - EGreg 8y ago
    I agree but I am not saying dating is the best way. The main thing for monogamous marriage is the matchmaking. When an entire village is involved, and they give you access to a huge pool of men and women ready to marry each other at the same time, that may be BETTER than the average dating strategy. Traditional societies have this all over the planet!

charlesdm 8y ago

My cousin has this with her husband. They're likely the best couple I have ever seen. Not a single fight, ever, afaik (from what her sister told me). They're best friends. Two great kids, wealthy and successful, and overall they just have a ton of fun together living and enjoying life.

poisonarena 8y ago
do you think wealthy and successful plays a role?
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  I have seen some things that suggest causation runs the other way: Good marriages lead to success and wealth. Bad ones lead to other outcomes, including divorce, which can be financially ruinous. There's always plenty of gossip in the news about rich people with bad marriages, infidelity, repeated divorce and remarriage etc. Though I imagine serious poverty doesn't generally improve a relationship.
- Ma8ee 8y ago
  Not having to worry about money eliminates a lot of sources for conflict. It’s not a big deal if my wife splurges on something that I find pointless, and paying someone to clean means we don’t have to argue about the mess in the kitchen.
- charlesdm 8y ago
  I would say no on the wealth part initially. But I think (being on the road to) success is a major part of what attracted her to him initially. They were already together for a few years when he almost went under with one of his companies, on the verge of losing millions of euros (and most of his capital at the time), and she helped turn it around by helping out as much as she could. Wealth however does make it possible to keep your lifestyle "fun" -- they travel frequently to interesting locations (a long trip every 3-4 months, sometimes with and sometimes without the kids) As far as true love goes, it sure seems like that is what they have.

laythea 8y ago

I would ask if you have kids?