11 ms·

>Furthermore, people said, on average, that they ideally wanted to live until they were 90 years old, which is only slightly higher than the current average lif

>Furthermore, people said, on average, that they ideally wanted to live until they were 90 years old, which is only slightly higher than the current average life expectancy. Even when participants imagined that they could take a magic pill guaranteeing eternal youth, their ideal life expectancy increased by only a few decades, to a median of 120 years old. Part of the reason for these "surprising" results is probably the individualistic framing of the question. It makes a difference if only you have unnaturally long life, or if you are part of a family or society that is similarly long-lived. For example, the thought of lingering on after friends and family from my generation have died has no appeal to me. In general, the implication that it's surprising that people didn't want "happiness" and "life expectancy" as the end goals speaks to assumptions of atomization among the creators of the study. Deep down, I think people want meaning and a sense of narrative structure to their lives, not just chasing after pleasures. >And when people were invited to choose their ideal IQ, the median score was about 130 – a score that would classify someone as smart, but not a genius. How was the question structured? I have doubts that most people get the statistics of what it means to be 130 IQ vs 150 IQ, etc.

albertgoeswoof 8y ago
Also quality of life takes a sharp decline after 90 as many parts of your body really struggle. Feeling your brain decay, dealing with incontinence, being unable to get out and embrace the world while watching your friends and partner pass on while the world moves further and further from you doesn’t seem that much fun.
- snvzz 8y ago
  Most people confuse age with aging, because aging is still unavoidable, and as it's always been the case, it looks like it will remain so forever. But that's wrong. The outlook is different now. Yet, unfortunately, most still see it as unavoidable. Everybody should watch The Fable of The Dragon Tyrant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZYNADOHhVY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZYNADOHhVY
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- maxander 8y ago
  That’s why the experimenters added the “assuming a pill that grants eternal youth” detail to the question. But it’s possible that inattentive test subjects didn’t fully internalize that.
Pete_D 8y ago
On the IQ question, from the paper (http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0956797618768058 http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/095679761876805...): > Intelligence was assessed by asking, “If you could choose your level of intelligence, what level would you choose?” and referring participants to an IQ diagram, with labels for “moderate disability” (40), “below average intelligence” (70), “average intelligence” (100), “above average intelligence” (130), and “exceptionally gifted” (160). Participants were told, “We would like you to indicate your desired intelligence level using an IQ score. NOTE: although IQ has no ‘maximum’ score, a score of 100 indicates an average level of intelligence.” Participants were then asked to write their preferred IQ level in an open-ended box. Later, from the results section: > In terms of intelligence, the mean ideal IQ score was distorted by the fact that a small group of participants recorded very high ideal IQ scores (> 1,000), creating positive skew. To adjust for this, we placed an artificial ceiling on scores that corresponded to the highest IQ score ever recorded: 228. After winsorizing the 0.3% of participant responses greater than 228, the mean IQ score was 122.52 (SD = 25.23).
- ben_w 8y ago
  IQ is defined with a standard deviation of either 15 or 16 depending on the test. IQ 1000 is 60σ, or z>1.238e-784. As this is significantly less likely than randomly guessing the correct {plank volume, plank time} pair out of the visible universe from Big Bang to now, much more, I’d agree the such responses didn’t understand the statistics.
  - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
    I don't think they're misunderstanding, though they may be ignorant of the stats, what they're saying is they want to be unimaginably intelligent. Perhaps assuming that special powers will go with that, like precognition.
    - whatshisface 8y ago
      >Perhaps assuming that special powers will go with that, like precognition. Across all species and stock market trading firms, this trend can actually be seen to some extent.
hitekker 8y ago
>narrative structure Correct. This is a construct that for most part has been tested and validated. More here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrative_identity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrative_identity
nickjj 8y ago
I also wonder if people felt like they had to give what they thought were "normal" responses just to hide what people really thought of them. Maybe I'm crazy but I find it really hard to believe anyone would rather die than live forever if it meant being able to take a pill that prevented any form of aging or health related issues.
- saagarjha 8y ago
  Eventually you'd probably just get bored, or tired of seeing your loved ones die around you.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  On the other hand, Highlander explored some of the social and emotional consequences of outliving all your loved ones, needing to hide the truth about yourself from everyone else, etc. "Who wants to live forever, when love must die?"
- smallnamespace 8y ago
  I think you might not have thought it all the way through yet. For real, true immortality (a span of not hundreds, but also thousands, millions, billions of years), the problem shifts to what it means to be 'you'. You're not the same person you were when you were 5, 15, or 25, with different goals, preferences, and motivations. Extend that to geological time, and there become only a few reasonable cases: 1. You stop changing; the core of your personality becomes completely fixed. I would claim this is a form of death, because although you are still physically healthy and moving about, change is an inherent part of life and growth. 2. Your personality drifts to the point that previous incarnations of your 'self' (even if you remember them) become very far from who you are currently. In which case, you're not really immortal, you're just a series of 'different people' who happen to share a single memory and narrative. 3. Your personality shifts at some point to wanting to death, at which point (assuming suicide is allowed) life ends I highly recommend Schild's Ladder[1] and Permutation City [2], both by Greg Egan, which do an excellent job of asking 'who am I?' if we had the ability live for infinite time. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schild%27s_Ladder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schild%27s_Ladder [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora_(novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora_(novel)
Swizec 8y ago
Honestly, looking at modern 90 and 100 year olds, who would want to live like that? But if I can be as vital as even say a healthy 50 year old (healthy 30 year old even better), then bring on the centuries! As many as you can give. It’s always important to ask your genie not for eternal life, but for eternal youth and vitality.
- dagw 8y ago
  I'd still want to have an off switch. Eternity is very long time and I'm afraid I'd get bored less than half way there.
  - Swizec 8y ago
    Ah mind you I didn’t say undamageable. Gotta be able to die from injury because surviving the heat deatj of the universe, while fascinating, sounds kinda terrible. Basically you want to avoid aging, not death. Imagine being immortal, but not infinitely healable, and someone chops you up into pieces. Not fun. Can’t even imagine the pain and you’d have to endure it for quite a while. I have spent too much of ky youth working out details or such potential asks. Never know when you gonna meet a wish granting genie
    - spiralx 8y ago
      I seem to recall that someone worked out that even for somebody who never aged, the cumulative risk of suffering a fatal accident of some kind meant that life expectancy would actually only be about 400 years or so. Unlikely events become more likely over the centuries :)
EGreg 8y ago
Really, it has no appeal to you to live longer? And yet people get divorced and often stop talking to their family. Are you saying you’d commit suicide in that case? I doubt it. How do you ultimately figure out what you think would be the best for you?

albertgoeswoof 8y ago

Also quality of life takes a sharp decline after 90 as many parts of your body really struggle. Feeling your brain decay, dealing with incontinence, being unable to get out and embrace the world while watching your friends and partner pass on while the world moves further and further from you doesn’t seem that much fun.

snvzz 8y ago
Most people confuse age with aging, because aging is still unavoidable, and as it's always been the case, it looks like it will remain so forever. But that's wrong. The outlook is different now. Yet, unfortunately, most still see it as unavoidable. Everybody should watch The Fable of The Dragon Tyrant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZYNADOHhVY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZYNADOHhVY
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
maxander 8y ago
That’s why the experimenters added the “assuming a pill that grants eternal youth” detail to the question. But it’s possible that inattentive test subjects didn’t fully internalize that.

Pete_D 8y ago

On the IQ question, from the paper (http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0956797618768058 http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/095679761876805...): > Intelligence was assessed by asking, “If you could choose your level of intelligence, what level would you choose?” and referring participants to an IQ diagram, with labels for “moderate disability” (40), “below average intelligence” (70), “average intelligence” (100), “above average intelligence” (130), and “exceptionally gifted” (160). Participants were told, “We would like you to indicate your desired intelligence level using an IQ score. NOTE: although IQ has no ‘maximum’ score, a score of 100 indicates an average level of intelligence.” Participants were then asked to write their preferred IQ level in an open-ended box. Later, from the results section: > In terms of intelligence, the mean ideal IQ score was distorted by the fact that a small group of participants recorded very high ideal IQ scores (> 1,000), creating positive skew. To adjust for this, we placed an artificial ceiling on scores that corresponded to the highest IQ score ever recorded: 228. After winsorizing the 0.3% of participant responses greater than 228, the mean IQ score was 122.52 (SD = 25.23).

ben_w 8y ago
IQ is defined with a standard deviation of either 15 or 16 depending on the test. IQ 1000 is 60σ, or z>1.238e-784. As this is significantly less likely than randomly guessing the correct {plank volume, plank time} pair out of the visible universe from Big Bang to now, much more, I’d agree the such responses didn’t understand the statistics.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  I don't think they're misunderstanding, though they may be ignorant of the stats, what they're saying is they want to be unimaginably intelligent. Perhaps assuming that special powers will go with that, like precognition.
  - whatshisface 8y ago
    >Perhaps assuming that special powers will go with that, like precognition. Across all species and stock market trading firms, this trend can actually be seen to some extent.

hitekker 8y ago

>narrative structure Correct. This is a construct that for most part has been tested and validated. More here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrative_identity https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrative_identity

nickjj 8y ago

I also wonder if people felt like they had to give what they thought were "normal" responses just to hide what people really thought of them. Maybe I'm crazy but I find it really hard to believe anyone would rather die than live forever if it meant being able to take a pill that prevented any form of aging or health related issues.

saagarjha 8y ago
Eventually you'd probably just get bored, or tired of seeing your loved ones die around you.
DoreenMichele 8y ago
On the other hand, Highlander explored some of the social and emotional consequences of outliving all your loved ones, needing to hide the truth about yourself from everyone else, etc. "Who wants to live forever, when love must die?"
smallnamespace 8y ago
I think you might not have thought it all the way through yet. For real, true immortality (a span of not hundreds, but also thousands, millions, billions of years), the problem shifts to what it means to be 'you'. You're not the same person you were when you were 5, 15, or 25, with different goals, preferences, and motivations. Extend that to geological time, and there become only a few reasonable cases: 1. You stop changing; the core of your personality becomes completely fixed. I would claim this is a form of death, because although you are still physically healthy and moving about, change is an inherent part of life and growth. 2. Your personality drifts to the point that previous incarnations of your 'self' (even if you remember them) become very far from who you are currently. In which case, you're not really immortal, you're just a series of 'different people' who happen to share a single memory and narrative. 3. Your personality shifts at some point to wanting to death, at which point (assuming suicide is allowed) life ends I highly recommend Schild's Ladder[1] and Permutation City [2], both by Greg Egan, which do an excellent job of asking 'who am I?' if we had the ability live for infinite time. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schild%27s_Ladder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schild%27s_Ladder [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora_(novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora_(novel)

Swizec 8y ago

Honestly, looking at modern 90 and 100 year olds, who would want to live like that? But if I can be as vital as even say a healthy 50 year old (healthy 30 year old even better), then bring on the centuries! As many as you can give. It’s always important to ask your genie not for eternal life, but for eternal youth and vitality.

dagw 8y ago
I'd still want to have an off switch. Eternity is very long time and I'm afraid I'd get bored less than half way there.
- Swizec 8y ago
  Ah mind you I didn’t say undamageable. Gotta be able to die from injury because surviving the heat deatj of the universe, while fascinating, sounds kinda terrible. Basically you want to avoid aging, not death. Imagine being immortal, but not infinitely healable, and someone chops you up into pieces. Not fun. Can’t even imagine the pain and you’d have to endure it for quite a while. I have spent too much of ky youth working out details or such potential asks. Never know when you gonna meet a wish granting genie
  - spiralx 8y ago
    I seem to recall that someone worked out that even for somebody who never aged, the cumulative risk of suffering a fatal accident of some kind meant that life expectancy would actually only be about 400 years or so. Unlikely events become more likely over the centuries :)

EGreg 8y ago

Really, it has no appeal to you to live longer? And yet people get divorced and often stop talking to their family. Are you saying you’d commit suicide in that case? I doubt it. How do you ultimately figure out what you think would be the best for you?