3 ms·

I have a friend who's a bit conspiracy minded. He thinks the powers that be responded to Occupy by simultaneously pushing far-left and far-right identity politi

by api 8y ago

I have a friend who's a bit conspiracy minded. He thinks the powers that be responded to Occupy by simultaneously pushing far-left and far-right identity politics to split everyone into tiny warring factions. I'm skeptical but regardless of whether it was intentional or just happened that does in fact seem to be what happened. The culture war must die. Then after it's dead it must be burned, ground into fine powder, mixed with concrete, and dropped into a deep region of the ocean near a subduction zone. Unfortunately that means everyone and I mean everyone who is culture-warring must give up and walk away. That means no more social justice warrior-ing and no more Pepe memes and alt-right tiki torch bullshit either. That means ignoring Jordan Peterson and Sam Seder. That means screw religion and atheism. That means screw the left and the right. That means... well... it kind of means everyone simultaneously loses whatever culture war they're fighting... or simultaneously wins... but you have to not care so much you don't even care about that. I don't know. Maybe it can happen. Try this. Every time you're tempted to get mad about the "alt-right" or alternately "cultural Marxism" just stare at this graph and ask "who benefits from me worrying about this crap?" https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-imlQvrT-aFM/Ve9yY1CAV9I/AAAAAAAAMb4/LEHK7_yNMUw/s1600/EPI_productivity_compensation.png https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-imlQvrT-aFM/Ve9yY1CAV9I/AAAAAAAAM... I will say this. As long as we are split over issues like race, gender, religion, and cultural totems the longer that graph will diverge.

s2g 8y ago
Except one side is literally nazis. You're advocating for not opposing actual neo-nazis.
- api 8y ago
  It's complicated. I think we have a few layers of feedback loops here. While the alt-right is scarier and more viscerally dangerous there is a bit of a "negativity laser" phenomenon going on here. The far left and far right are each others' bogey men and thus are driving each other off the deep end. I'm not saying they'll stop if we hug them but I'm saying that directly attacking them might give them more energy. The real danger is that their dangerous nuttery will drive liberals into nutty territory themselves as a counter-reaction (and vice versa... that's how a laser works). Meanwhile we are neglecting the economic issues and those are IMHO the real cause. This kind of xenophobic hate stuff always comes up when people feel economic hardship. Scarcity triggers atavistic tribal "band together and raid the neighboring tribe" behavior patterns. Our brain stems don't know what century this is. The Nazis came to power during a deep economic crisis, remember? The irony is that neglecting the economic underpinnings of this to focus on the social issues is creating precisely the environment that led to the rise of fascism the last time around. Edit: I'm also not advocating accepting fringe racists, just not expending too much energy fighting them directly (which feeds them) and instead re-focusing that energy on asking "what happened in 1973 and how can we fix it?" What's kind of interesting about that graph I posted is that there is a ground zero. Whatever went wrong went wrong in 1973 plus or minus a year or two. If we can fix that I really think the Nazis will go back in their holes. People only listen to that kind of craziness when they feel desperate and they feel like the system has failed them.
  - s2g 8y ago
    The far left in America is much more fringe than the alt-right. conservative policies won't help with wage stagnation. won't help with the current malaise that is effecting the middle class.

by api 8y ago

s2g 8y ago

Except one side is literally nazis. You're advocating for not opposing actual neo-nazis.

api 8y ago
It's complicated. I think we have a few layers of feedback loops here. While the alt-right is scarier and more viscerally dangerous there is a bit of a "negativity laser" phenomenon going on here. The far left and far right are each others' bogey men and thus are driving each other off the deep end. I'm not saying they'll stop if we hug them but I'm saying that directly attacking them might give them more energy. The real danger is that their dangerous nuttery will drive liberals into nutty territory themselves as a counter-reaction (and vice versa... that's how a laser works). Meanwhile we are neglecting the economic issues and those are IMHO the real cause. This kind of xenophobic hate stuff always comes up when people feel economic hardship. Scarcity triggers atavistic tribal "band together and raid the neighboring tribe" behavior patterns. Our brain stems don't know what century this is. The Nazis came to power during a deep economic crisis, remember? The irony is that neglecting the economic underpinnings of this to focus on the social issues is creating precisely the environment that led to the rise of fascism the last time around. Edit: I'm also not advocating accepting fringe racists, just not expending too much energy fighting them directly (which feeds them) and instead re-focusing that energy on asking "what happened in 1973 and how can we fix it?" What's kind of interesting about that graph I posted is that there is a ground zero. Whatever went wrong went wrong in 1973 plus or minus a year or two. If we can fix that I really think the Nazis will go back in their holes. People only listen to that kind of craziness when they feel desperate and they feel like the system has failed them.
- s2g 8y ago
  The far left in America is much more fringe than the alt-right. conservative policies won't help with wage stagnation. won't help with the current malaise that is effecting the middle class.