7 ms·

Former Tesla employee claims he is a whistleblower

56 points by greedo 8y ago

0xbxd 8y ago
LA Times is not available in Europe. Does anyone know a way of how to access the article? edit:// Seems to be available in Google Cache at ( http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6Zh46Sr5ZEQJ:www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-tesla-whistleblower-20180621-story.html+&cd=1&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de&client=firefox-b http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6Zh46Sr... ). As suspected, more of a press release than anything else. Just because the name "Tesla" is in it this gets upvoted? edit2:// This is the original article which has much more detail and is overall better: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2018/06/20/tesla-sues-former-employee-as-elon-musk-signals-hunt-for-saboteurs/?utm_term=.6ec64f69a27b https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2018/06/20...
- erikb 8y ago
  Just in case non-European people wonder, here's what we get presented with instead of the article: > Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism.
  - tomp 8y ago
    What a shitshow. They could just disable cookies instead, or display text-only versions of the articles instead of this passive-agressive behaviour.
    - whatyoucantsay 8y ago
      Their behaviour is more defensive in nature, really.
    - cjhopman 8y ago
      Right. I don't understand why they don't just disable all the ways that they make money and give their content to people in the EU for free.
      - tomp 8y ago
        Well they'd earn the same as they're earning now :D
- Grangar 8y ago
  Prefix the URL with outline.com/ ;)
- whatyoucantsay 8y ago
  Talk to your representatives and let them know the pain the vague and overreaching GDPR causes you. Perhaps, in time, law makers will undo some of the harm they've caused. Until then, invest in a VPN that lets you appear to be from elsewhere.
  - zzzeek 8y ago
    Why not talk to the LA Times and encourage them to be GPDR compliant? For everyone, not just EU citizens.
    - whatyoucantsay 8y ago
      Because the GDPR requirements are vague, overreaching, at odds with best practise and not yet even implemented by the misguided legislature that wrote it.
zzzeek 8y ago
Musk sounds like an unhinged conspiracy theorist and everything I hear about this company leads me to continue to wish for traditional automakers to take over the great innovations he's pushed forward with mass produced, fully electric and highly automated cars, and bring it up to scale in a safe and reasonable way.
- jstanley 8y ago
  I'd like to see someone selling a fully electric car that isn't highly automated. I don't want cruise control, lane following, stability control, automatic braking, automatic collision avoidance, anti-lock brakes, etc. I just want a brake pedal connected directly to the brakes, and a throttle pedal connected directly to an ESC, and a motor connected directly to the wheels. I don't want a computer controlling everything from behind the scenes, and I certainly don't want it "cloud-connected" or otherwise reporting to the mothership. Is that too much to ask? It should be much cheaper and easier to make than other electric cars, but nobody is doing it.
  - amarant 8y ago
    Yes, it's too much to ask. I'd like to be able to walk on the streets where I live without having to worry about you hitting me with your car because your phone rang. more automation is clearly the way to go, although I'll grant that tesla hasnt exactly done a great job of it. waymo seems to be on to something though :)
  - karthikb 8y ago
    Base model Leaf or Electric Smart? You’ll still get cruise control (you don’t need to use it), ABS (proven to save lives, but you can of course pump the brakes if you wish) etc.
    - Someone1234 8y ago
      I wouldn't touch the Electric Smart. It has terrible fit and finish, and the range is terrible for a fully electric cars (up to 58 miles), some plug in hybrids get almost as much fully electric range (Chevrolet Volt up to 53 miles). Granted the Electric Smart is "only" $23K, but you have to look at the overall value (e.g. depreciation, utility, battery aging). I'd prefer to pay $27K for a plug-in Prius Prime (up to 25 mile electric, then gas).
rich-w-big-ego 8y ago
Martin Tripp ... spoke out after seeing "some really scary things" ... including dangerously punctured batteries installed in cars Yeah, right. How, exactly, does a batter get "dangerously punctured" at any point in the manufacturing process?
- pjc50 8y ago
  Mishandling? Jamming it in something? Dropping a screwdriver on it?
  - ainiriand 8y ago
    Yes, that can happen, but it wont pass the controls.
- Fricken 8y ago
  >In February, a misprogrammed robot that handles battery modules repeatedly punctured through the plastic housing (called a clamshell) and into some battery cells, the employee said, adding that instead of scrapping all the modules, some were fixed with adhesive and put back on the manufacturing line. According to internal documents Business Insider reviewed, this foible affected more than 1,000 pieces. http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-scrap-waste-high-gigafactory-2018-5 http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-scrap-waste-hig...
  - ebikelaw 8y ago
    You can kinda make that sound bad, and it might have been bad, but reworking pieces is standard practice in many industries. "Fixed with adhesive" sounds like a hack but there are many wonderful adhesives.
    - mrguyorama 8y ago
      A punctured lithium cell is not a minor defect
JakeWesorick 8y ago
Were his actions in line with being a whistleblower? Was what he release evidence of the punctured batteries? I thought he was making direct code changes to the Tesla Manufacturing Operating System.
- Someone1234 8y ago
  That's what Tesla claimed. Tesla also said he was leaking multi-gigabytes of information to "sources unknown," and implied it was the oil/gas/competitors. Turns out it was Business Insider and other news media.
  - cjhopman 8y ago
    > Turns out it was Business Insider and other news media. And that they knew that when making the "sources unknown" claim.
- danso 8y ago
  Musk's email of the allegations didn't go into specifics: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/elon-musk-email-employee-conducted-extensive-and-damaging-sabotage.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/elon-musk-email-employee-con... > I was dismayed to learn this weekend about a Tesla employee who had conducted quite extensive and damaging sabotage to our operations. This included making direct code changes to the Tesla Manufacturing Operating System under false usernames and exporting large amounts of highly sensitive Tesla data to unknown third parties. For all we know, these code changes to the Tesla system could have been the code needed to exfiltrate the data and info that he allegedly leaked to media as a whistleblower.
frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago
I think I'm just gonna sit back on this story. Tesla has proved itself to be untrustworthy repeatedly but Mr. Tripp seems like he's doing whatever it takes to avoid going to prison. The truth is the first casualty here.
- jsmthrowaway 8y ago
  One does not end up in prison from a lawsuit. Tesla cited the criminal codes in question to try to make that happen, but only the government can bring criminal cases, and criminal cases aren’t brought on unproven allegations in a civil lawsuit. If they were serious about putting him in prison, Tesla would have discussed referrals to law enforcement in their communications and we’d likely be hearing from district attorneys by now, given the attention on the case. Martin Tripp ending up in prison is extraordinarily unlikely, even if Tesla is 100% correct. That you even considered the possibility means that Tesla’s strategy of sprinkling the word “illegal” throughout the complaint to paint a criminal picture worked.
  - drivingmenuts 8y ago
    I think it's more likely that Musk wants to know who received the information and will plan accordingly from there. Additionally, it will scare others to keep them from releasing information.
gcb0 8y ago
tesla is going to crash and burn all because musk is more worried about his ego above quality, employees, and even consumers. he could use a vacation or something.
Fricken 8y ago
Musk has hired a former Enron prosecuter to help him crush this little man: https://www.law.com/therecorder/2018/06/20/tesla-brings-on-former-enron-prosecutor-to-go-after-ex-employee-accused-of-hacking/?slreturn=20180521084311 https://www.law.com/therecorder/2018/06/20/tesla-brings-on-f...
- erikb 8y ago
  The funny thing is that Musk is literally destroying his public image with this. I mean, who will believe his nice nerd image if he's standing with blood stained face laughing about the crippled dead body of this ex employee of his. Not many better ways of public image suicide out there.
  - telchar 8y ago
    Oh come off it. If he's indeed a saboteur he will garner very little pity from losing a lawsuit. Since when do we support people who allegedly use industrial sabotage against the very companies pushing the boundaries of reducing pollution and greenhouse gas emissions? Your overblown imagery is ridiculous.
    - ianleeclark 8y ago
      Elon is just a bored rich kid and the reducing pollution and greenhouse gas is a facade to distract himself from his ghoulish nature. If you really care about these two things, are you a vegan? Is he a vegan? Or, the far more likelier situation, is Elon attempting to ultimately dissuade workers from unionizing, so that he can continue to exploit them?
      - WhompingWindows 8y ago
        How is he a "bored rich kid"? He's bored running two innovative companies? Not to mention he started his entrepeneurship at 12, he sold a video game he created at that age. Since then, I believe he's started 7-8 companies. Hardly what I'd call a "bored" person. What does veganism have to do with an electric car company? His eating or not of meat has about a .000001% greenhouse gas impact relative to his investments in renewable energy and electrification.
gcb0 8y ago
history time for ppl who think this is rare: VW plant, making their top of the line model. solder arm robots have two air input hoses. one wide, high pressure and slow response that is the "power". another nibler but fast response that is the actuator and only moves a small part that open/close the power valve. the hoses were switched in one chassis line robot. causing the strong power line to simply hold the actuator always open. the small line was going to the " power" input, effectively controlling the soldering arm movement with the low power normally used only for the control valve. it did solder the chassis. was it up to spec? hardly. did all the chasis went down the line without more than a visual inspection? yep.
- lovich 8y ago
  Were the two hoses keyed so that they couldn't be switched? If not, that could be sabotage but it could just as easily be human error. If you are relying on humans catching every mistake you are going to have mistakes happen. You need to make it so that it requires active effort to fuck up if you want avoid issues
  - gcb0 8y ago
    from what I recall in the history (heard from the husband of a college friend, he was the person that fixed the thing) the person who did the mixup went to a lot of trouble to fit the hoses in the wrong way.
shashanoid 8y ago
So, Tesla brought on a white collar defense specialist (some say the best in the country) to file charges against a whistleblower - excuse me - a disgruntled employee? I am beginning to think Feds are onto it. Tesla isn't fighting this blue collar worker, they expect a fight with the Feds and SEC.
- sabareesh 8y ago
  Well there might be some big shots behind this employee. I wont consider him as whistleblower until the case is over
univalent 8y ago
What a mess. Even if Musk decided to go the route of suing this person why did he publicize it himself? What is to be gained for him in the court of public opinion?
- koreyb 8y ago
  Same as Apple; as a warning to other employees.
thisisit 8y ago
I really looking forward to the actual trial and evidence provided by Tesla. This can actually make or break Musk and maybe Tesla's image. They have insinuated in the mail that this might be an act of sabotage by oil/gas companies and/or short sellers. If Musk/Tesla can't prove those allegations they will be labelled as someone who cries wolf at the first sign of trouble.
sabareesh 8y ago
As usual hacker news is so much against Elon not sure why.

56 points by greedo 8y ago

LA Times is not available in Europe. Does anyone know a way of how to access the article? edit:// Seems to be available in Google Cache at ( http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6Zh46Sr5ZEQJ:www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-tesla-whistleblower-20180621-story.html+&cd=1&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de&client=firefox-b http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6Zh46Sr... ). As suspected, more of a press release than anything else. Just because the name "Tesla" is in it this gets upvoted? edit2:// This is the original article which has much more detail and is overall better: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2018/06/20/tesla-sues-former-employee-as-elon-musk-signals-hunt-for-saboteurs/?utm_term=.6ec64f69a27b https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2018/06/20...

erikb 8y ago
Just in case non-European people wonder, here's what we get presented with instead of the article: > Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our award-winning journalism.
- tomp 8y ago
  What a shitshow. They could just disable cookies instead, or display text-only versions of the articles instead of this passive-agressive behaviour.
  - whatyoucantsay 8y ago
    Their behaviour is more defensive in nature, really.
  - cjhopman 8y ago
    Right. I don't understand why they don't just disable all the ways that they make money and give their content to people in the EU for free.
    - tomp 8y ago
      Well they'd earn the same as they're earning now :D
Grangar 8y ago
Prefix the URL with outline.com/ ;)
whatyoucantsay 8y ago
Talk to your representatives and let them know the pain the vague and overreaching GDPR causes you. Perhaps, in time, law makers will undo some of the harm they've caused. Until then, invest in a VPN that lets you appear to be from elsewhere.
- zzzeek 8y ago
  Why not talk to the LA Times and encourage them to be GPDR compliant? For everyone, not just EU citizens.
  - whatyoucantsay 8y ago
    Because the GDPR requirements are vague, overreaching, at odds with best practise and not yet even implemented by the misguided legislature that wrote it.

zzzeek 8y ago

Musk sounds like an unhinged conspiracy theorist and everything I hear about this company leads me to continue to wish for traditional automakers to take over the great innovations he's pushed forward with mass produced, fully electric and highly automated cars, and bring it up to scale in a safe and reasonable way.

jstanley 8y ago
I'd like to see someone selling a fully electric car that isn't highly automated. I don't want cruise control, lane following, stability control, automatic braking, automatic collision avoidance, anti-lock brakes, etc. I just want a brake pedal connected directly to the brakes, and a throttle pedal connected directly to an ESC, and a motor connected directly to the wheels. I don't want a computer controlling everything from behind the scenes, and I certainly don't want it "cloud-connected" or otherwise reporting to the mothership. Is that too much to ask? It should be much cheaper and easier to make than other electric cars, but nobody is doing it.
- amarant 8y ago
  Yes, it's too much to ask. I'd like to be able to walk on the streets where I live without having to worry about you hitting me with your car because your phone rang. more automation is clearly the way to go, although I'll grant that tesla hasnt exactly done a great job of it. waymo seems to be on to something though :)
- karthikb 8y ago
  Base model Leaf or Electric Smart? You’ll still get cruise control (you don’t need to use it), ABS (proven to save lives, but you can of course pump the brakes if you wish) etc.
  - Someone1234 8y ago
    I wouldn't touch the Electric Smart. It has terrible fit and finish, and the range is terrible for a fully electric cars (up to 58 miles), some plug in hybrids get almost as much fully electric range (Chevrolet Volt up to 53 miles). Granted the Electric Smart is "only" $23K, but you have to look at the overall value (e.g. depreciation, utility, battery aging). I'd prefer to pay $27K for a plug-in Prius Prime (up to 25 mile electric, then gas).

rich-w-big-ego 8y ago

Martin Tripp ... spoke out after seeing "some really scary things" ... including dangerously punctured batteries installed in cars Yeah, right. How, exactly, does a batter get "dangerously punctured" at any point in the manufacturing process?

pjc50 8y ago
Mishandling? Jamming it in something? Dropping a screwdriver on it?
- ainiriand 8y ago
  Yes, that can happen, but it wont pass the controls.
Fricken 8y ago
>In February, a misprogrammed robot that handles battery modules repeatedly punctured through the plastic housing (called a clamshell) and into some battery cells, the employee said, adding that instead of scrapping all the modules, some were fixed with adhesive and put back on the manufacturing line. According to internal documents Business Insider reviewed, this foible affected more than 1,000 pieces. http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-scrap-waste-high-gigafactory-2018-5 http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-scrap-waste-hig...
- ebikelaw 8y ago
  You can kinda make that sound bad, and it might have been bad, but reworking pieces is standard practice in many industries. "Fixed with adhesive" sounds like a hack but there are many wonderful adhesives.
  - mrguyorama 8y ago
    A punctured lithium cell is not a minor defect

JakeWesorick 8y ago

Were his actions in line with being a whistleblower? Was what he release evidence of the punctured batteries? I thought he was making direct code changes to the Tesla Manufacturing Operating System.

Someone1234 8y ago
That's what Tesla claimed. Tesla also said he was leaking multi-gigabytes of information to "sources unknown," and implied it was the oil/gas/competitors. Turns out it was Business Insider and other news media.
- cjhopman 8y ago
  > Turns out it was Business Insider and other news media. And that they knew that when making the "sources unknown" claim.
danso 8y ago
Musk's email of the allegations didn't go into specifics: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/elon-musk-email-employee-conducted-extensive-and-damaging-sabotage.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/elon-musk-email-employee-con... > I was dismayed to learn this weekend about a Tesla employee who had conducted quite extensive and damaging sabotage to our operations. This included making direct code changes to the Tesla Manufacturing Operating System under false usernames and exporting large amounts of highly sensitive Tesla data to unknown third parties. For all we know, these code changes to the Tesla system could have been the code needed to exfiltrate the data and info that he allegedly leaked to media as a whistleblower.

frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago

I think I'm just gonna sit back on this story. Tesla has proved itself to be untrustworthy repeatedly but Mr. Tripp seems like he's doing whatever it takes to avoid going to prison. The truth is the first casualty here.

jsmthrowaway 8y ago
One does not end up in prison from a lawsuit. Tesla cited the criminal codes in question to try to make that happen, but only the government can bring criminal cases, and criminal cases aren’t brought on unproven allegations in a civil lawsuit. If they were serious about putting him in prison, Tesla would have discussed referrals to law enforcement in their communications and we’d likely be hearing from district attorneys by now, given the attention on the case. Martin Tripp ending up in prison is extraordinarily unlikely, even if Tesla is 100% correct. That you even considered the possibility means that Tesla’s strategy of sprinkling the word “illegal” throughout the complaint to paint a criminal picture worked.
- drivingmenuts 8y ago
  I think it's more likely that Musk wants to know who received the information and will plan accordingly from there. Additionally, it will scare others to keep them from releasing information.

gcb0 8y ago

tesla is going to crash and burn all because musk is more worried about his ego above quality, employees, and even consumers. he could use a vacation or something.

Fricken 8y ago

Musk has hired a former Enron prosecuter to help him crush this little man: https://www.law.com/therecorder/2018/06/20/tesla-brings-on-former-enron-prosecutor-to-go-after-ex-employee-accused-of-hacking/?slreturn=20180521084311 https://www.law.com/therecorder/2018/06/20/tesla-brings-on-f...

erikb 8y ago
The funny thing is that Musk is literally destroying his public image with this. I mean, who will believe his nice nerd image if he's standing with blood stained face laughing about the crippled dead body of this ex employee of his. Not many better ways of public image suicide out there.
- telchar 8y ago
  Oh come off it. If he's indeed a saboteur he will garner very little pity from losing a lawsuit. Since when do we support people who allegedly use industrial sabotage against the very companies pushing the boundaries of reducing pollution and greenhouse gas emissions? Your overblown imagery is ridiculous.
  - ianleeclark 8y ago
    Elon is just a bored rich kid and the reducing pollution and greenhouse gas is a facade to distract himself from his ghoulish nature. If you really care about these two things, are you a vegan? Is he a vegan? Or, the far more likelier situation, is Elon attempting to ultimately dissuade workers from unionizing, so that he can continue to exploit them?
    - WhompingWindows 8y ago
      How is he a "bored rich kid"? He's bored running two innovative companies? Not to mention he started his entrepeneurship at 12, he sold a video game he created at that age. Since then, I believe he's started 7-8 companies. Hardly what I'd call a "bored" person. What does veganism have to do with an electric car company? His eating or not of meat has about a .000001% greenhouse gas impact relative to his investments in renewable energy and electrification.

gcb0 8y ago

history time for ppl who think this is rare: VW plant, making their top of the line model. solder arm robots have two air input hoses. one wide, high pressure and slow response that is the "power". another nibler but fast response that is the actuator and only moves a small part that open/close the power valve. the hoses were switched in one chassis line robot. causing the strong power line to simply hold the actuator always open. the small line was going to the " power" input, effectively controlling the soldering arm movement with the low power normally used only for the control valve. it did solder the chassis. was it up to spec? hardly. did all the chasis went down the line without more than a visual inspection? yep.

lovich 8y ago
Were the two hoses keyed so that they couldn't be switched? If not, that could be sabotage but it could just as easily be human error. If you are relying on humans catching every mistake you are going to have mistakes happen. You need to make it so that it requires active effort to fuck up if you want avoid issues
- gcb0 8y ago
  from what I recall in the history (heard from the husband of a college friend, he was the person that fixed the thing) the person who did the mixup went to a lot of trouble to fit the hoses in the wrong way.

shashanoid 8y ago

So, Tesla brought on a white collar defense specialist (some say the best in the country) to file charges against a whistleblower - excuse me - a disgruntled employee? I am beginning to think Feds are onto it. Tesla isn't fighting this blue collar worker, they expect a fight with the Feds and SEC.

sabareesh 8y ago
Well there might be some big shots behind this employee. I wont consider him as whistleblower until the case is over

univalent 8y ago

What a mess. Even if Musk decided to go the route of suing this person why did he publicize it himself? What is to be gained for him in the court of public opinion?

koreyb 8y ago
Same as Apple; as a warning to other employees.

thisisit 8y ago

I really looking forward to the actual trial and evidence provided by Tesla. This can actually make or break Musk and maybe Tesla's image. They have insinuated in the mail that this might be an act of sabotage by oil/gas companies and/or short sellers. If Musk/Tesla can't prove those allegations they will be labelled as someone who cries wolf at the first sign of trouble.

sabareesh 8y ago

As usual hacker news is so much against Elon not sure why.