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Koko, a gorilla who could do sign language, has died at 46
- thorin 8y agoTime to re-read this... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael_(novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael_(novel)
- undershirt 8y agoI didn't realize Daniel Quinn died in February
- stareatgoats 8y agoRIP Koko. I know many treat the claims of inter species communication like this with great skepticism (for historical reasons I believe), but I personally find the evidence overwhelming, and very inspiring, although not to be exaggerated either. This clip proves some of it I think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNuZ4OE6vCk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNuZ4OE6vCk
- nashashmi 8y agoWas Koko able to talk to other gorillas or was it due to human captivity, she could only talk to humans?
- bluedino 8y agoThere was another gorilla that learned sign language before Koko, he lived with her and I think they 'taught' each other signs.
- kevinmchugh 8y agoVery few (non-human) apes have ever learned any sign language, and Koko's ability to sign was highly predicated on having a specific interpreter nearby.
- YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago>> The popular gorilla, known for her extraordinary mastery of sign language, has passed away at the age of 46. About the "extraordinary mastery of sign language", wikipedia has this to say: As with other great ape language experiments, the extent to which Koko mastered and demonstrated language through the use of these signs is disputed.[4][5] But it is generally accepted that she did not use syntax or grammar, and that her use of language did not exceed that of a young human child. (...) Following Patterson's initial publications in 1978, a series of critical evaluations of her reports of signing behavior in great apes argued that video evidence suggested that Koko was simply being prompted by their trainers' unconscious cues to display specific signs, in what is commonly called the Clever Hans effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koko_(gorilla) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koko_(gorilla)
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- ben509 8y agoI want to credit this to Steven Pinker but I'm not certain... He had a great metaphor for this phenomenon of people perceiving human linguistic capabilities in animals: imagine if some elephant scientists were looking at various species' noses, they'd be saying, "look at how they can wiggle their nose! That's just astounding! And this one can balance a ball on his nose! It's uncanny how elephant he is!" The point being that our ability for language is biologically a very unique facility, even if it can sometimes sound like more ordinary non-linguistic communication. And it's not uncommon in nature for a species to have a very highly evolved capability, at the same time, it takes evolution to make that happen. No amount of stretching, for instance, is going to give you a giraffe's neck.
- BalinKing 8y agoSteven Pinker definitely talks about Koko in The Language Instinct... IIRC, let's just say he doesn't have the highest opinion of the experiment ;-)
- ThemalSpan 8y ago
- kevinmchugh 8y agoHopefully this is the end of experiments on animal intelligence run by a closely involved researcher-caretaker over the course of many years. There's little evidence published about the research topic, great monetary expense, and there was also the human cost, where the lead researcher on the project likely sexually harassed her subordinates, claiming that the gorilla had demanded to see the subordinates' breasts. here is the definitive takedown of the enterprise: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/08/koko_kanzi_and_ape_language_research_criticism_of_working_conditions_and.html http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/201...
- throwawaymath 8y agoWow, that was a great read. Thanks for sharing.
- justaguyhere 8y agoSafkow estimated Koko received between 70 and 100 pills a day Woah!
- IIVII 8y ago> claiming that the gorilla had demanded to see the subordinates' breasts. ... hehe.
- jonhendry18 8y ago"claiming that the gorilla had demanded to see the subordinates' breasts." I dunno, if a gorilla wants to see your nipples, are you going to feel safe saying no?
- kevinmchugh 8y agoI'm not going to feel safe performing sexual favors in the office regardless of a gorilla's presence. If my boss tells me that I may suffer violence for not performing sexual favors, I'm going to sue my boss.
- psynapse 8y agoWhen I was a kid, my parents kept a bookshelf with a vast library of National Geographic issues. I used to read them at random in idle periods, and I specifically remember the Koko's Kitten edition. I never realised that she was still alive. Makes me wonder though, in the internet age when people aren't in the habit of giving over large physical spaces to things like Nat Geo or Encyclopedias, how much getting information in this mode is diminished; as opposed to dog-on-surfboard social media snippets.
- maxerickson 8y agoPeople are always complaining when HN surfaces an interesting article not dated in the last 5 days. (by which I mean, the type of reading you talk about happens enough here that complaints about it happening are a thing)
- pavel_lishin 8y agoI think the modern equivalent is the wikidive. I too lament the lack of a huge library at home, but I'm not worried about other people losing this. The kind of people who consume nothing but funny cat videos aren't typically the kind of people who would stock their home with reference materials anyway, right?
- aaron695 8y agoKoko was a lie. Start with wiki and read on. This shit is well know, but it keeps getting repeated. Humanity has yet found a way to self correct bullshit.
- Angostura 8y agoKoko, a gorilla who some claimed could do sign language, has died at 46
- xutopia 8y agoI don't know how anyone who would watch the videos of Koko interacting with her human friend could think what you state. To me it's undeniable that Koko is indeed using sign language to express herself.
- yanslookup 8y agoYou are convincing yourself of what you want to see. Yes, Koko could reproduce various signs with her hands, but she did not have anything near language.
- coldtea 8y agoYou seem to be convincing yourself just fine as well.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- srean 8y agoCan you prove or disprove that she did not have a language ?
- smt88 8y agoI'd say the burden of proof is on those who claim she did have language. If you watch the videos, her interpreter takes very simple words, changes them, adds context, turns them into longer sentences, and basically forms Koko's language for her. I firmly believe Koko had complex and nuanced thoughts and desires, but I don't believe the interpreter was practicing science or interpreting honestly. There's evidence of this in the sexual-abuse allegations against the interpreter, where she admitted to changing "nipple" to "people" and explained it away as, "Nipple sounds like people!"
- jlebrech 8y agolet's make a subset of an human language for dolphins.
- jbschirtzinger 8y agoI was very sad to hear this. I still remember in Elementary school encountering the book "Koko's kitten".
- coolbreeze 8y agoMy one year old does sign language.
- Razengan 8y agoReminds me of this Neil deGrasse Tyson bit: https://youtu.be/sLYorVnA44U https://youtu.be/sLYorVnA44U
- andai 8y agoSurprised to see no mention of "put the kitten on my head", the most adorable sequence of symbols that has ever come out of an intelligent animal. https://www.petcha.com/koko-the-gorilla-gets-new-kitten-friends-for-her-birthday-signs-put-on-head-for-kitten-party-hat/ https://www.petcha.com/koko-the-gorilla-gets-new-kitten-frie...
- motohagiography 8y agoTo people doubting whether the ape "understood," the language, a useful test is whether it used language as a) a tool to operate on its environment through others, and b) to realize individually originated intent. There is another criteria for basic intelligence whether the subject is capable of reasoning about objects that are not physically present. A dog scratching at a door to signal its desire that it wants you to open it, is arguably using language. Responding to commands is not necessarily using or understanding language as it can just be explained as being acted upon. I'm sure there is a philosophical catgory for this interpretation, of language as tool, but it has a lot of ethical consequences.
- beenBoutIT 8y agoI find it very humanlike that after being gifted the tools of communication Koko didn't decide to become a gorrilla literacy advocate. Instead, she chose to spend her time hobnobbing with the likes of A-listers like TV's Mister Roger's and Robin Williams.
- freedomseeker 8y agoRIP Koko. Sad coincidence "World's oldest Sumatran orangutan, Puan, dies in captivity at Perth Zoo at the age of 62" http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-19/oldest-orangutan-in-the-world-dies-at-perth-zoo/9886946 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-06-19/oldest-orangutan-in-th...