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Inside Nintendo’s “perfect” method for detecting online Switch piracy
- ss248 8y ago>If you download an illegitimate copy of a Switch game that was purchased on a different console/account, Nintendo can detect the mismatch as soon as you log in and immediately ban the console from its network. What is stopping hackers from purchasing one game legitimately and just spoof the data after?
- SmallDeadGuy 8y agoYou can't spoof the data, it's generated unique to each game then signed by Nintendo in a way that isn't reversible to anyone else.
- ss248 8y agoYeah, i have read the reddit post now [1]. If i understood correctly, Nintendo only allows access to online features of the game specified in that particular certificate. [1] - https://www.reddit.com/r/SwitchHacks/comments/8rxg26/psa_strong_antipiracy_measures_implemented_by/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SwitchHacks/comments/8rxg26/psa_str...
- Scaevolus 8y agoThis does mean that you can buy a game, hack it using a modded console, and play online. This doesn't prevent cheating in online games, just piracy.
- acct1771 8y ago> signed by Nintendo in a way that isn't reversible to anyone else. Well, now you're just challenging people.
- kodablah 8y agoDidn't read the reddit post, but usually the way these things work is there are two cert checks. One for the console and one for the game. The game cert is signed (or there is a signature somewhere) by both the console cert and Nintendo's game-cert CA (not to be confused with Nintendo's console-cert CA which may have the same root but are unlikely the same) in that order. Both are checked server side.
- beefhash 8y ago> What is stopping hackers from purchasing one game legitimately and just spoof the data after? If you mean "spoof" in the sense of duplicating the certificate/ticket: Because two consoles would try to use the same cart certificate/ticket. If you mean "spoof" in the sense of making a fake certificate/ticket: The certificate/ticket are signed by Nintendo, so they can verify on the server side if it's fake or not. If you mean spoof the console data: As far as I know, you require an NNID to go online, which the console is tied to. So the pirates would have to share login data and chain all the carts/tickets to that one console and login combination. That's probably going to be practically infeasible. Even if it wasn't, Nintendo could probably notice an odd amount of sign-ins coming from a single console, yet also all over the world.
- SifJar 8y agoMore technical analysis: https://www.reddit.com/r/SwitchHacks/comments/8rxg26/psa_strong_antipiracy_measures_implemented_by/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SwitchHacks/comments/8rxg26/psa_str... (this is the post the Ars Technica post is referring to)
- oh_sigh 8y agoHow will they handle online banned units when they start getting resold on Craigslist to people who don't know to check it's online access status?
- ben174 8y agoI assume the same way it’s handled when you buy any other broken product. Buyer beware.
- EpicEng 8y agoWould you buy a console without turning it on?
- Sir_Cmpwn 8y agoWould you buy a console without turning it on, popping in an online-ready game, and attempting to go online?
- BHSPitMonkey 8y agoNintendo should start adding some bright, easily visible message to the system UI that indicates the device is permanently restricted so that buyers doing a cursory check would see it. It should be as obvious as a theft-bricked iPhone.
- JackCh 8y agoI believe they have a financial incentive to not do this. If buying a second-hand switch is perceived as risky, then sales of new switches will be encouraged. Of course this would cause a switch to depreciate even more when you buy it since it would suppress the market price of a used switch. But I'd wager most people aren't considering how much they could get from selling their switch when they're considering buying one.
- EpicEng 8y agoAlright I'm claiming ignorance here; I didn't know you had to play an online game to know. Figured it would tell you as soon as it came up assuming you were near wifi (which even then is a big assumption.) My mistake, hadn't thought it through.
- mkirklions 8y agoSince its Nintendo, how easy will it be to break their system? I can only imagine after beating Zelda and this years Smash people will have plenty of time to make their 450 dollar system(after necessary hardware) interesting. Im teasing, but after a decade of awful Nintendo systems and letdowns, I'm not above trashing this company.
- reacweb 8y agoI can't drive my car as soon as I run a red light. The punishment seems harsh.
- CGamesPlay 8y agoI feel like a closer analogy would be "I can't drive my car as soon as I install flame-thrower exhaust". What would cause a user in normal operation of a switch to be permanently banned form the Nintendo network?
- loser777 8y agoIsn't the most direct analogy: a stolen car refuses to start? But I would still download a car if I could. side note: What does flamethrower mean in this case? Some potentially totally legitimate car modifications (e.g., two-step launch control) have the side effect of dumping unburnt fuel into the exhaust, creating a "flamethrower" effect. Not sure if two-step violates noise or "flamethrower" laws first though ;).
- secabeen 8y ago> Isn't the most direct analogy: a stolen car refuses to start? But I would still download a car if I could. Perhaps, and if you buy a stolen item, and the police find it, they will return it to the original owner. You get nothing, you just lost the money you spent.
- reacweb 8y agoA "normal" user who has a child who has received a "pirated game" as a gift at school?
- benologist 8y agoSounds like the EU will have to invite Nintendo to go fuck themselves for disabling resellable devices. The other thing they do that's pretty nasty is requiring their permission to buy a developer kit instead of something like wifi or a USB cable.
- ribosometronome 8y ago>Sounds like the EU will have to invite Nintendo to go fuck themselves for disabling resellable devices. Don't virtually all phones have similar functionality?
- benologist 8y agoDo you mean the registry to prevent reselling stolen phones?
- scotteh 8y agoThe devices aren't being disabled, they're just having their access to Nintendo's online services restricted. This practice isn't anything new, and has been around as long as internet-enabled consoles have.
- benologist 8y agoFrom the article: "permanently ban those consoles from Nintendo's network." "a banned console will stay banned from the network permanently" It's a device-level ban so it will be applied to any subsequent owners.
- MBCook 8y agoYep. Normal resale is fine and won’t trigger a ban, trying o circumvent the anti-piracy/cheating stuff will. Just like the other consoles on the market. So don’t buy those consoles second hand. Again, exactly the same as PS and Xbox.
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- jordigh 8y agoI haven't owned a console in decades, so bear with me: is it currently possible to buy a game and lend it to a friend? I used to borrow my friend's cartridges as a kid. Is that now piracy? What about second-hand rentals, is that also immoral now?
- CedarMadness 8y agoI think as long as two systems aren't playing the same copy at the same time, they wouldn't do any banning. So lending and rentals should still be acceptable.
- javagram 8y agoLending cartridges and discs works fine (on all modern consoles) and is not piracy. (Edit: Microsoft proposed changing this with the Xbox one by requiring discs to be activated online, but backed down before ever implementing the plan) The only piracy Nintendo is worried about is cartridge duplication or downloads that don’t involve paying the retail price in the eshop.
- setr 8y agoAre you sure about that? The one and only time I've interacted with an xbox one, we picked up a physical game, put it in, and then downloaded the game to the xbox. Afaict, there was nothing on the disk itself except perhaps an identifier and a key; the download was substantial. Probably the stupidest interaction I've had with computers yet. And if thats still the case, I can't imagine downloading the game to multiple xbox's valid behavior. But I also dont remember if the disk was required to be inserted to actually play (which would make the interaction even more obscene).
- spathi_fwiffo 8y agoAs others said, physical stuff is still sharable; since only one can use it at a time. However with app-store (no physical disc) stuff, that can't be shared. Basically the same as on PC when using Steam - you get single account lock-in because it is all software only. (Steam has implemented limited sharing, but it isn't all that great).
- jsgo 8y agoI'm a bit confused here. I have two Switch consoles, one for myself and one for my daughter. Say I buy the cartridge for the new Smash Bros game. We take turns between my console and her console using the cartridge (not at the same time, for obvious reasons). Because her unique console and my unique console are sharing a cart (with same cert, I imagine), is that going to lead to us being banned? I honestly haven't done online yet (BotW mostly, some Bomberman local multiplayer), so I don't know if this is an obvious "no" or not, but I do plan to play Smash Bros.
- intopieces 8y agoThis is perfectly OK. Since you're using a physical cartridge, it's not possible for that cert to be accessing the online system at the same time.
- Thaxll 8y agoThe Switch is already hacked meaning that you can have cheaters online, none of what Nintendo is doing prevents that so it's a huge fail ( where Sony and MS are secured )
- jpeter 8y agoNintendo? The same company that let's you download games directly from there store (without buying them) so you can play them on an emulator?
- adamrezich 8y agoWhere is this?
- rasz 8y agoNintendo. The same company shipping scene rom dump inside Wii Super Mario Bros.
- kbob 8y agoI never connected my Switch to the network. Is there some functionality I'm missing?
- Doxin 8y agothe E-shop and system updates mostly. If you don't care about either of those it's not a big deal to not have your switch networked. sidenote: I love how the switch deals with system updates, from a user perspective they take less than 3 seconds.