8 ms·

I'm curious why this needs its own definition, rather than being part of a larger "addiction disorder".

emmaishere1000 8y ago
So games can be policed for correct content. Thought policed if you will.
dragonwriter 8y ago
Because there is no larger “addiction disorder”, and trying to create one would have a messy and complex definition compared to distinct definitions that happen to share some features.
- brandonjm 8y ago
  Yet the same organisation that seems to care so much about giving every little addiction it's own name also lumps every variety of autism under the same umbrella term.
  - creep 8y ago
    This is the same with schizophrenia as well-- which is also a spectrum.
  - mmirate 8y ago
    Each addiction clearly and openly differs in the object of addiction. Whereas, with autisms, we don't yet know how to analyze symptoms well enough for there to be a bijection between set-of-symptoms and underlying-autism-variant; indeed, we can barely even separate autism's causes and effects, if at all.
    - Semirhage 8y ago
      The activity which is addictive varies, but the underlying physiological mechanism seems to be essentially identical from cocaine abuse to gambling. Defining the disorder by the pathology rather than an obtuse collection of symptoms which have a tendency to overlap and merge might be too much for psychology, but it’s the scientific thing.
      - mmirate 8y ago
        Well, that says more about the current state of the field of psychology, than about the task at hand. :)
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        > The activity which is addictive varies, but the underlying physiological mechanism seems to be essentially identical from cocaine abuse to gambling. No, it doesn't. There seem to likely be some similar key mechanisms involved, but the shared mechanisms aren't the whole story, otherwise someone addicted to something would be addicted to everything. We give different diagnoses for different allergies, even though allergies have a common key mechanism.
    - toomanybeersies 8y ago
      Is video game addiction fundamentally different from gambling addiction? Especially when comparing video poker machines, it's just like a video game.
      - Raidion 8y ago
        I don't think so, gambling is based on the risk/reward thrill, coupled with the fact that "if I just hit the big one, I can do other activity that I want to do, but can't afford". I don't feel like many people go into the casino like, "if I win it big at $5, I'm gonna go play 100 dollar a hand blackjack!" Video games don't have that risk/reward in as nearly as a tangible sense. Though you could argue that games like EVE Online, where in game resources have a direct comparison to hard cash. Ie, you can grind up a capital ship in game, or you can theoretically purchase enough ISK (in game currency, about $11,000 USD in this case) to buy one outright. Video games have less risk/reward, are focused internally, and have more greed and achievement. If I'm able to clear this raid, I'm able to get X, which will allow me to do Y in the same game, which will make it easier to attempt Z, etc. No one plans to play 5 dollar blackjack so they can play 100 dollar blackjack.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > Yet the same organisation that seems to care so much about giving every little addiction it's own name Because diagbostic criteria need to be different for different subject matter, and no suitable generalization had been identified. > also lumps every variety of autism under the same umbrella term. Because there is a continuum of manifestations and not clear differentiated kinds with crisp, clinically meaningful boundaries or subject matter.
- gaius 8y ago
  A Skinner box is a Skinner box. Whether that’s a pokie (FOBT), a free-to-play game, a social network or anything else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber#Commercial_applications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber#C...
jt2190 8y ago
I’m told that the World Health Organization’s International Classification of Diseases (ICD) was created to help epidemiologists in different countries share data. It may be, and I’m speculating here, that it’s rather easy to get something added to it, as long as there are enough researchers somewhere in the world who want it added. Someone here must know a little more about the process by which new things are added to the ICD.
Mirioron 8y ago
Because people who don't play games think it's weird that others are interested in things they don't like. So there must be something wrong with them. There's a good reason why many psychologists and psychiatrists were against the inclusion of this in ICD-11 and why the DSM5 does not list it as an officially recognized disorder either.
- hkmurakami 8y ago
  Isn't it basically analogous to say sex addiction or porn addiction wrt the underlying psychology?
  - noobermin 8y ago
    FWIR sex/porn addiction is a suspect concept for many psychologists just like "masturbation addiction" is. One wonders whether such ideas are based in psychology vs. social attitudes of certain people similar to the attitudes those who think "masturbation addiction" is a thing.
contravariant 8y ago
For what it's worth "Gaming" is broad enough to capture pretty much any 'non-chemical' activity that can be addicting. There's a somewhat grey area between "Gaming" and "Gambling", but I think it's fair to consider "Gambling" a subset of "Gaming" where the games actually pay out money (or something of monetary value). This probably doesn't match the WHO definition though.
- gehwartzen 8y ago
  There are people that spend most of their available hours staring at screens of graphs while trading various tokens in order to achieve the highest score... but of course we call them professionals not addicts.
  - berthe 8y ago
    > There are people that spend most of their available hours staring at screens of graphs while trading various tokens in order to achieve the highest score... but of course we call them professionals not addicts. Not really, we call them workaholics (e.g. work-addicts) if they're so compelled to work that they can establish boundaries between it and the rest of their lives. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/workaholic http://www.dictionary.com/browse/workaholic
    - nostrademons 8y ago
      Do we? In some professions (eg. investment banking, medicine, corporate law, fashion, entertainment) long hours are so ingrained in the culture that the rest of the world doesn't even bother to call them workaholics, because it's exceptionally unlikely that anyone from the rest of the world knows them on a personal level.
  - imtringued 8y ago
    Trading on an exchange is zero sum for the active participants and has secondary benefits like increased liquidity and less volatility for the passive participants. Gambling is negative sum for all participants. The house is always going to win. The jackpots are just a user acquisition expense to trick even more participants into playing.

So games can be policed for correct content. Thought policed if you will.

Because there is no larger “addiction disorder”, and trying to create one would have a messy and complex definition compared to distinct definitions that happen to share some features.

brandonjm 8y ago
Yet the same organisation that seems to care so much about giving every little addiction it's own name also lumps every variety of autism under the same umbrella term.
- creep 8y ago
  This is the same with schizophrenia as well-- which is also a spectrum.
- mmirate 8y ago
  Each addiction clearly and openly differs in the object of addiction. Whereas, with autisms, we don't yet know how to analyze symptoms well enough for there to be a bijection between set-of-symptoms and underlying-autism-variant; indeed, we can barely even separate autism's causes and effects, if at all.
  - Semirhage 8y ago
    The activity which is addictive varies, but the underlying physiological mechanism seems to be essentially identical from cocaine abuse to gambling. Defining the disorder by the pathology rather than an obtuse collection of symptoms which have a tendency to overlap and merge might be too much for psychology, but it’s the scientific thing.
    - mmirate 8y ago
      Well, that says more about the current state of the field of psychology, than about the task at hand. :)
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > The activity which is addictive varies, but the underlying physiological mechanism seems to be essentially identical from cocaine abuse to gambling. No, it doesn't. There seem to likely be some similar key mechanisms involved, but the shared mechanisms aren't the whole story, otherwise someone addicted to something would be addicted to everything. We give different diagnoses for different allergies, even though allergies have a common key mechanism.
  - toomanybeersies 8y ago
    Is video game addiction fundamentally different from gambling addiction? Especially when comparing video poker machines, it's just like a video game.
    - Raidion 8y ago
      I don't think so, gambling is based on the risk/reward thrill, coupled with the fact that "if I just hit the big one, I can do other activity that I want to do, but can't afford". I don't feel like many people go into the casino like, "if I win it big at $5, I'm gonna go play 100 dollar a hand blackjack!" Video games don't have that risk/reward in as nearly as a tangible sense. Though you could argue that games like EVE Online, where in game resources have a direct comparison to hard cash. Ie, you can grind up a capital ship in game, or you can theoretically purchase enough ISK (in game currency, about $11,000 USD in this case) to buy one outright. Video games have less risk/reward, are focused internally, and have more greed and achievement. If I'm able to clear this raid, I'm able to get X, which will allow me to do Y in the same game, which will make it easier to attempt Z, etc. No one plans to play 5 dollar blackjack so they can play 100 dollar blackjack.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Yet the same organisation that seems to care so much about giving every little addiction it's own name Because diagbostic criteria need to be different for different subject matter, and no suitable generalization had been identified. > also lumps every variety of autism under the same umbrella term. Because there is a continuum of manifestations and not clear differentiated kinds with crisp, clinically meaningful boundaries or subject matter.
gaius 8y ago
A Skinner box is a Skinner box. Whether that’s a pokie (FOBT), a free-to-play game, a social network or anything else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber#Commercial_applications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning_chamber#C...

jt2190 8y ago

I’m told that the World Health Organization’s International Classification of Diseases (ICD) was created to help epidemiologists in different countries share data. It may be, and I’m speculating here, that it’s rather easy to get something added to it, as long as there are enough researchers somewhere in the world who want it added. Someone here must know a little more about the process by which new things are added to the ICD.

Mirioron 8y ago

Because people who don't play games think it's weird that others are interested in things they don't like. So there must be something wrong with them. There's a good reason why many psychologists and psychiatrists were against the inclusion of this in ICD-11 and why the DSM5 does not list it as an officially recognized disorder either.

hkmurakami 8y ago
Isn't it basically analogous to say sex addiction or porn addiction wrt the underlying psychology?
- noobermin 8y ago
  FWIR sex/porn addiction is a suspect concept for many psychologists just like "masturbation addiction" is. One wonders whether such ideas are based in psychology vs. social attitudes of certain people similar to the attitudes those who think "masturbation addiction" is a thing.

contravariant 8y ago

For what it's worth "Gaming" is broad enough to capture pretty much any 'non-chemical' activity that can be addicting. There's a somewhat grey area between "Gaming" and "Gambling", but I think it's fair to consider "Gambling" a subset of "Gaming" where the games actually pay out money (or something of monetary value). This probably doesn't match the WHO definition though.

gehwartzen 8y ago
There are people that spend most of their available hours staring at screens of graphs while trading various tokens in order to achieve the highest score... but of course we call them professionals not addicts.
- berthe 8y ago
  > There are people that spend most of their available hours staring at screens of graphs while trading various tokens in order to achieve the highest score... but of course we call them professionals not addicts. Not really, we call them workaholics (e.g. work-addicts) if they're so compelled to work that they can establish boundaries between it and the rest of their lives. http://www.dictionary.com/browse/workaholic http://www.dictionary.com/browse/workaholic
  - nostrademons 8y ago
    Do we? In some professions (eg. investment banking, medicine, corporate law, fashion, entertainment) long hours are so ingrained in the culture that the rest of the world doesn't even bother to call them workaholics, because it's exceptionally unlikely that anyone from the rest of the world knows them on a personal level.
- imtringued 8y ago
  Trading on an exchange is zero sum for the active participants and has secondary benefits like increased liquidity and less volatility for the passive participants. Gambling is negative sum for all participants. The house is always going to win. The jackpots are just a user acquisition expense to trick even more participants into playing.