6 ms·

When I was a kid I thought the greatest thing in life would be to travel around the world, see interesting things, meet interesting people, and go to interestin

When I was a kid I thought the greatest thing in life would be to travel around the world, see interesting things, meet interesting people, and go to interesting places. This in turn would make me a more interesting, worthwhile human being worthy of adoration. Somehow our generation was taught that our experiences define us. That by getting on a plane to London and taking some pictures somehow our lives would be more unique and amazing. So I spent my early 20s traveling and doing just that. Seeing everything there was to see. Doing all the things I ever dreamed of as a 16 year old kid stuck in the midwest. Being a hobo, I guess you could say, and having all of these "experiences" that I was sure would add up to a life of meaning. The result was a profound lack of satisfaction, and a severe existential dread at perhaps never finding any actual purpose. I was lucky to settle down, go back to school, and find a passion in programming and science which drives me toward working on bigger problems than myself, that might help humanity in some way. But I fear that the vast majority of people my age are still stuck in that mindset, having never got it out of their systems. Hoping and praying that this next trip to Bali will finally give them that satisfaction beyond filling 3 minutes in passing cocktail party conversation.

rco8786 8y ago
Interesting. We have had very different traveling experiences. Traveling and learning about other people and cultures has completely transformed the way that I think about myself and the world.
- gascan 8y ago
  Backpacking through the poorest parts of the world is a very different experience than drinking margaritas on a beach. "Travel" is so vague.
- timr 8y ago
  I recently spent a year living abroad, and while I'd agree that it transformed the way I think about myself, it did so in a way that made me critical about most forms of tourism. Hopping from place to place and seeing tourist sites can be fun and relaxing, but it's ultimately also pretty meaningless. This was drawn in sharp contrast for me because I was living in a famous tourist area (Kyoto), and I routinely saw the vast differences between the way tourists experience the area, and the way locals do. There's a very established tourist route, and it has almost no overlap (other than commercial) with the authentic life of the city. Tourists arrive, see the station, visit a few of the "mass-market" temples and shrines, then they leave. Even the folks who have "authentic experiences" are more-or-less following well-trodden pathways. It's hard, because I now find it difficult to travel to places where I don't have a deeper purpose for being there. Simply seeing something pretty is no longer enough. But I also recognize that this is, almost by definition, impossible for everyone to do. I like travel too, but I'm quite conflicted now. Most forms of mass-market tourism are essentially no different from Disney World, but with worse environmental impact. They're cancerous, and unless tightly regulated, will destroy the very places they promote. At least Disney World was built in a swamp!
  - gascan 8y ago
    (Swamps are actually important ecosystems, and help protect human settlement from flooding & hurricanes)
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - tedmiston 8y ago
    I read a travel writing essay once that argued basically that there is very little true original travel left in the world in a post National Geographic era. That everything accessible to visit has been seen before by someone.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - eanzenberg 8y ago
      Travel and exploration (what you're describing) are two very different things.
      - tedmiston 8y ago
        This was the way the author defined travel (vs tourism) in the context of travel literature. Perhaps a little different than colloquial usage.
  - lhorie 8y ago
    I tend to think of "shallow" tourism the same way I think of watching movies. Of course I know it's all an artificial experience, but I'll still turn off my brain and watch cheesy action flicks or snap photos w/ Goofy at Disneyland all the same. If anything, having had the opportunity to live the difference between locals and tourists (I've been both for San Francisco), I adjust my expectations for how much cultural enrichment I'm supposed to be getting out of a trip vs how much braindead goofing off I'm doing. There are times for both. As for environmental impact, I think there is certainly an unfortunate factor of social perception making people fly half way around the world to Bali and destroy the local ecology in the process because Bali is supposed to be this enviable getaway place. But there's such a thing as a place being overrated, and if you arrive with high expectations, there's surely going to be a disappointment (even if you don't want to admit it). At some point, a beach is a beach. Coronado beach - just a hop away for me - is just as relaxing to me as Frasier island in middle-of-nowhere Australia. If you're looking for unusual travel experiences with minimal ecological footprint, something that I've found nice (at least for major hubs in north america) is the atlas obscura city guides. Many spots there aren't even on maps (let alone touristic ones), and can't possibly take your whole day, so they're a great excuse to really go off the beaten path.
drukenemo 8y ago
It doesn't have to be all or nothing. I do believe some traveling can open up your mind and teach you a few important lessons about the world.
jsonne 8y ago
I find this comment extremely frustrating. Just because you didn't find satisfaction in travel doesn't mean that others won't in the same way not everyone will with a passion in programming. Similarly, you give yourself a pass of having gained the life experience of having done it, which takes an extraordinary amount of resources to be able to travel the globe in it of itself, but want to disallow it to others? While I appreciate the sentiment that it's not some magic bullet to life fulfillment this whole comment to me feels like "rules for thee but not for me." Similarly the article and the articles that the article quotes seem to point at other travelers as the problem, but always are able to do the mental gymnastics to carve out exemptions for themselves.
bamboozled 8y ago
Speak for yourself, I’ve learned a great deal from my adventures, made amazing friends and will continue to travel. Sounds like you just weren’t adventurous and opened minded enough on your travels and didn’t find worthwhile experiences.
peterlk 8y ago
> I was lucky to settle down, go back to school, and find a passion in programming and science which drives me toward working on bigger problems than myself, that might help humanity in some way This is exactly why everyone should travel. The thing that you find out is that the rest of the world isn't so different from wherever you're from. Perhaps the colors and shapes of the architecture and food is different, but people are pretty much people. There are some cultural differences that are helpful to learn too, but learning that the world is big and also that it isn't is extremely valuable. My lessons from traveling (I still like doing it though): You cannot run away from yourself, taking pictures of things doesn't make you more interesting, people like to party, people are mostly good, you get to decide what matters
- ccccccccccccc 8y ago
  Can you expand on what you mean by "it isn't extremely valuable?"
  - stevedomin 8y ago
    I think he meant "also that it [the world] isn't [big] is extremely valuable".
- jopsen 8y ago
  > This is exactly why everyone should travel. The thing that you find out is that the rest of the world isn't so different... Maybe some people could learn the lesson without having to personally experience it. A lacture plan that involves flying people around the globe seems environmentally problematic.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    Unless you live on an island, traveling doesn't have to be by plane. Here in Europe many youths get an Interrail pass[1], and you can get to Africa with a short ferry crossing. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrail
andy_ppp 8y ago
I’ve had largely the opposite experience, almost all of my travel experiences have broadened me, especially India, Myanmar and Japan. I suppose I loved those countries the most because it makes you realise that Europe has a distinct culture (and for me interestingly Christianity has shaped the way people think here quite fundamentally). Maybe it’s easier to relate to a person from France or the US than it is a person from Japan. It helps you to understand more critically the positive and negative aspects of where your from which is a good thing as it’s so difficult to discern the water when you’re swimming in it.
jopsen 8y ago
I agree, traveling is overrated. I'm sure it's nice for some people, but... If you want to relax there is no place like home, or maybe drive to nearest lake/ocean/... If you want to learn other cultures jump on Netflix, YouTube, the internet. If you want to do something meaningful: study; get a job; volunteer; help people in your local community; donate to charity; build something; contribute to an open source project; join/do a start-up; get into politics or have kids.
madrox 8y ago
I think what you're describing has its roots in the Grand Tour[1]. Touring Europe after college became a tradition of well-to-do Americans in the same spirit. It used to be the best way to fulfill on the promise of education and become worldly. It was never meant to be how you found your purpose. It was supposed to create empathy and understanding of our culture. I'm skipping over a lot of detail, of course, and Bali is far from a grand tour destination. I'm pretty sure people go to Bali because the beaches are nice and it offers a certain kind of experience. I don't think they're going there looking for the meaning of life. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour
saltcured 8y ago
From what I have seen, many travelers seek novelty, movement, and temporary escape. As in so many other activities, some merely seek the appearance of seeking. The appearance of experience and worldliness, as an expression of fashion, tribe, and belonging. You see this in natural settings too, with people more concerned with checking off a list of national parks and sign posts than with actually experiencing the natural world beyond the postcard framing. Ironically, if everyone were an itinerant traveler, there would be no local cultures to visit. Everyone you meet would be another generic gap year traveler and every place would be a youth hostel. There would be no real locality to sample. I think only a small percentage of pleasure travelers are really looking for the cultural enrichment romanticized in travel stories. Even then, this is shallow experience-seeking as compared to a field anthropologist who methodically studies and compares cultures. And, neither of these compare to the immigrant who transplants themself permanently into a new, adopted culture. A peculiar kind of travel you see in immigrants, even multigenerationally, is heritage tourism. It's almost a reversal of escape and novelty-seeking. They seek some return to a faint memory or myth of the old country.
ranit 8y ago
Perhaps, the negative outcome was based on expectation that: > ... would make me a more interesting, worthwhile human being worthy of adoration. That is, you didn't seem to travel for your enlightenment, rather to look "better" before others, whatever this better could mean for you.
mmphosis 8y ago
When I was a kid I thought the greatest thing in life would be to program computers, create interesting programs, meet interested people and programmers, and delve into interesting problems. This in turn would solve problems and make things easier. A generation has been indoctrinated into thinking that our devices define us. That by getting on a device and posting, programming and delivering products somehow our lives would be more unique and amazing. So I spent my early 20s programming and doing just that. Programming everything there was to program. Doing all the things I ever dreamed of as a 16 year old kid stuck in generative meta-circular recursion. Being a hacker, I guess you could say, and having all of these "polymorphic insights" that I was sure would add up to a life of meaning. The result was a profound lack of satisfaction, and a severe existential dread at perhaps never delivering anything of practical use. I was lucky to settle up, quit work, and find a passion in traveling and touring which drives me toward working on bigger problems than myself, that might help humanity in some way. But I fear that the vast majority of people my age are still stuck in that mindset, having never to unplug and leave their systems. Hoping and praying that this next version of a program will finally give them that satisfaction beyond filling 3 minutes in posting an update on a chat conversation.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
OlivierKessler 8y ago
For me it was the exact opposite, sitting on a chair programming or years made me absolutely depressed. So I went travelling for some time, quit the IT industry and I've never felt that good. We are all different, one's experience doesn't apply to others I guess.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ASalazarMX 8y ago
I think your mistake was thinking that traveling was the goal. It just widens a bit the path you're following to your actual goal. I envy you for those experiences, though. They must be interesting.

rco8786 8y ago

Interesting. We have had very different traveling experiences. Traveling and learning about other people and cultures has completely transformed the way that I think about myself and the world.

gascan 8y ago
Backpacking through the poorest parts of the world is a very different experience than drinking margaritas on a beach. "Travel" is so vague.
timr 8y ago
I recently spent a year living abroad, and while I'd agree that it transformed the way I think about myself, it did so in a way that made me critical about most forms of tourism. Hopping from place to place and seeing tourist sites can be fun and relaxing, but it's ultimately also pretty meaningless. This was drawn in sharp contrast for me because I was living in a famous tourist area (Kyoto), and I routinely saw the vast differences between the way tourists experience the area, and the way locals do. There's a very established tourist route, and it has almost no overlap (other than commercial) with the authentic life of the city. Tourists arrive, see the station, visit a few of the "mass-market" temples and shrines, then they leave. Even the folks who have "authentic experiences" are more-or-less following well-trodden pathways. It's hard, because I now find it difficult to travel to places where I don't have a deeper purpose for being there. Simply seeing something pretty is no longer enough. But I also recognize that this is, almost by definition, impossible for everyone to do. I like travel too, but I'm quite conflicted now. Most forms of mass-market tourism are essentially no different from Disney World, but with worse environmental impact. They're cancerous, and unless tightly regulated, will destroy the very places they promote. At least Disney World was built in a swamp!
- gascan 8y ago
  (Swamps are actually important ecosystems, and help protect human settlement from flooding & hurricanes)
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- tedmiston 8y ago
  I read a travel writing essay once that argued basically that there is very little true original travel left in the world in a post National Geographic era. That everything accessible to visit has been seen before by someone.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - eanzenberg 8y ago
    Travel and exploration (what you're describing) are two very different things.
    - tedmiston 8y ago
      This was the way the author defined travel (vs tourism) in the context of travel literature. Perhaps a little different than colloquial usage.
- lhorie 8y ago
  I tend to think of "shallow" tourism the same way I think of watching movies. Of course I know it's all an artificial experience, but I'll still turn off my brain and watch cheesy action flicks or snap photos w/ Goofy at Disneyland all the same. If anything, having had the opportunity to live the difference between locals and tourists (I've been both for San Francisco), I adjust my expectations for how much cultural enrichment I'm supposed to be getting out of a trip vs how much braindead goofing off I'm doing. There are times for both. As for environmental impact, I think there is certainly an unfortunate factor of social perception making people fly half way around the world to Bali and destroy the local ecology in the process because Bali is supposed to be this enviable getaway place. But there's such a thing as a place being overrated, and if you arrive with high expectations, there's surely going to be a disappointment (even if you don't want to admit it). At some point, a beach is a beach. Coronado beach - just a hop away for me - is just as relaxing to me as Frasier island in middle-of-nowhere Australia. If you're looking for unusual travel experiences with minimal ecological footprint, something that I've found nice (at least for major hubs in north america) is the atlas obscura city guides. Many spots there aren't even on maps (let alone touristic ones), and can't possibly take your whole day, so they're a great excuse to really go off the beaten path.

drukenemo 8y ago

It doesn't have to be all or nothing. I do believe some traveling can open up your mind and teach you a few important lessons about the world.

jsonne 8y ago

I find this comment extremely frustrating. Just because you didn't find satisfaction in travel doesn't mean that others won't in the same way not everyone will with a passion in programming. Similarly, you give yourself a pass of having gained the life experience of having done it, which takes an extraordinary amount of resources to be able to travel the globe in it of itself, but want to disallow it to others? While I appreciate the sentiment that it's not some magic bullet to life fulfillment this whole comment to me feels like "rules for thee but not for me." Similarly the article and the articles that the article quotes seem to point at other travelers as the problem, but always are able to do the mental gymnastics to carve out exemptions for themselves.

bamboozled 8y ago

Speak for yourself, I’ve learned a great deal from my adventures, made amazing friends and will continue to travel. Sounds like you just weren’t adventurous and opened minded enough on your travels and didn’t find worthwhile experiences.

peterlk 8y ago

> I was lucky to settle down, go back to school, and find a passion in programming and science which drives me toward working on bigger problems than myself, that might help humanity in some way This is exactly why everyone should travel. The thing that you find out is that the rest of the world isn't so different from wherever you're from. Perhaps the colors and shapes of the architecture and food is different, but people are pretty much people. There are some cultural differences that are helpful to learn too, but learning that the world is big and also that it isn't is extremely valuable. My lessons from traveling (I still like doing it though): You cannot run away from yourself, taking pictures of things doesn't make you more interesting, people like to party, people are mostly good, you get to decide what matters

ccccccccccccc 8y ago
Can you expand on what you mean by "it isn't extremely valuable?"
- stevedomin 8y ago
  I think he meant "also that it [the world] isn't [big] is extremely valuable".
jopsen 8y ago
> This is exactly why everyone should travel. The thing that you find out is that the rest of the world isn't so different... Maybe some people could learn the lesson without having to personally experience it. A lacture plan that involves flying people around the globe seems environmentally problematic.
- icebraining 8y ago
  Unless you live on an island, traveling doesn't have to be by plane. Here in Europe many youths get an Interrail pass[1], and you can get to Africa with a short ferry crossing. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interrail

andy_ppp 8y ago

I’ve had largely the opposite experience, almost all of my travel experiences have broadened me, especially India, Myanmar and Japan. I suppose I loved those countries the most because it makes you realise that Europe has a distinct culture (and for me interestingly Christianity has shaped the way people think here quite fundamentally). Maybe it’s easier to relate to a person from France or the US than it is a person from Japan. It helps you to understand more critically the positive and negative aspects of where your from which is a good thing as it’s so difficult to discern the water when you’re swimming in it.

jopsen 8y ago

I agree, traveling is overrated. I'm sure it's nice for some people, but... If you want to relax there is no place like home, or maybe drive to nearest lake/ocean/... If you want to learn other cultures jump on Netflix, YouTube, the internet. If you want to do something meaningful: study; get a job; volunteer; help people in your local community; donate to charity; build something; contribute to an open source project; join/do a start-up; get into politics or have kids.

madrox 8y ago

I think what you're describing has its roots in the Grand Tour[1]. Touring Europe after college became a tradition of well-to-do Americans in the same spirit. It used to be the best way to fulfill on the promise of education and become worldly. It was never meant to be how you found your purpose. It was supposed to create empathy and understanding of our culture. I'm skipping over a lot of detail, of course, and Bali is far from a grand tour destination. I'm pretty sure people go to Bali because the beaches are nice and it offers a certain kind of experience. I don't think they're going there looking for the meaning of life. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Tour

saltcured 8y ago

From what I have seen, many travelers seek novelty, movement, and temporary escape. As in so many other activities, some merely seek the appearance of seeking. The appearance of experience and worldliness, as an expression of fashion, tribe, and belonging. You see this in natural settings too, with people more concerned with checking off a list of national parks and sign posts than with actually experiencing the natural world beyond the postcard framing. Ironically, if everyone were an itinerant traveler, there would be no local cultures to visit. Everyone you meet would be another generic gap year traveler and every place would be a youth hostel. There would be no real locality to sample. I think only a small percentage of pleasure travelers are really looking for the cultural enrichment romanticized in travel stories. Even then, this is shallow experience-seeking as compared to a field anthropologist who methodically studies and compares cultures. And, neither of these compare to the immigrant who transplants themself permanently into a new, adopted culture. A peculiar kind of travel you see in immigrants, even multigenerationally, is heritage tourism. It's almost a reversal of escape and novelty-seeking. They seek some return to a faint memory or myth of the old country.

ranit 8y ago

Perhaps, the negative outcome was based on expectation that: > ... would make me a more interesting, worthwhile human being worthy of adoration. That is, you didn't seem to travel for your enlightenment, rather to look "better" before others, whatever this better could mean for you.

mmphosis 8y ago

When I was a kid I thought the greatest thing in life would be to program computers, create interesting programs, meet interested people and programmers, and delve into interesting problems. This in turn would solve problems and make things easier. A generation has been indoctrinated into thinking that our devices define us. That by getting on a device and posting, programming and delivering products somehow our lives would be more unique and amazing. So I spent my early 20s programming and doing just that. Programming everything there was to program. Doing all the things I ever dreamed of as a 16 year old kid stuck in generative meta-circular recursion. Being a hacker, I guess you could say, and having all of these "polymorphic insights" that I was sure would add up to a life of meaning. The result was a profound lack of satisfaction, and a severe existential dread at perhaps never delivering anything of practical use. I was lucky to settle up, quit work, and find a passion in traveling and touring which drives me toward working on bigger problems than myself, that might help humanity in some way. But I fear that the vast majority of people my age are still stuck in that mindset, having never to unplug and leave their systems. Hoping and praying that this next version of a program will finally give them that satisfaction beyond filling 3 minutes in posting an update on a chat conversation.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

OlivierKessler 8y ago

For me it was the exact opposite, sitting on a chair programming or years made me absolutely depressed. So I went travelling for some time, quit the IT industry and I've never felt that good. We are all different, one's experience doesn't apply to others I guess.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

ASalazarMX 8y ago

I think your mistake was thinking that traveling was the goal. It just widens a bit the path you're following to your actual goal. I envy you for those experiences, though. They must be interesting.