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I would feel quite unconfortable if every action taken (or not taken) by medic staff has to be second-guessed simply because there are financial incentives deri

by jand 8y ago

I would feel quite unconfortable if every action taken (or not taken) by medic staff has to be second-guessed simply because there are financial incentives derived from this research. Customer A does not receive full medical support because "he's dying anyway"? Is there a way to ensure that such cruel use of the research is prohibited?

newsbinator 8y ago
More data is good. It's better if this becomes an ethical/moral problem about when to care for patients and to what degree, rather than a guessing game problem while anybody's guess is as good as anybody else's.
dapearce 8y ago
>Customer A does not receive full medical support because "he's dying anyway"? Unless the patient consents to stop or reduce care, this would be medical negligence, which is illegal (in the US). Medical providers are required by law to provide medical treatment with all the knowledge and skill they possess.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Medical providers are required by law to provide medical treatment with all the knowledge and skill they possess. No, to avoid liability for malpractice, they need to meet the “professional standard of care”, which is assessed by general practice in the medical community, not “all the knowledge and skill” the individual provider possesses.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- dekhn 8y ago
  This is not factually correct.
- Broken_Hippo 8y ago
  I wish that were the case. They'll treat you in the ER, but not make sure you can actually purchase antibiotics to cure the thing that brought you to the ER to begin with, nor make sure you can afford the bone specialist you need to see for your surgery. Anything short of an emergency and you can be denied care due to finances. Even if your problem is cancer or they know it will eventually be an emergency or life-threatening. Money is part of the reason folks will use the emergency room instead of urgent care: Urgent care requires upfront payment, the emergency room does not. Many doctors will refuse to see someone if they do not pay upfront. Luckily, different agencies tend to step in with end of life care.
  - Spivak 8y ago
    What is the ER going to do about the fact that you can't afford a prescription or treatment/surgery from a specialist? Their job is pretty much to stop you from dying right now and direct you to another doctor when you're stable. You can also present insurance upfront but same difference I suppose. A world where you didn't have to pay upfront would make care even more expensive because doctor's offices have to essentially become banks.
    - knuththetruth 8y ago
      >A world where you didn't have to pay upfront would make care even more expensive because doctor's offices have to essentially become banks. Those are called nationalized healthcare systems and are almost all cheaper than the US’ privatized system?
      - Spivak 8y ago
        Huh? The doctor is still getting guaranteed payment but by your government instead of you. I mean the world in which doctors had to accept patients regardless of their ability to pay and have to try and recover later.
        knuththetruth 8y ago
Symmetry 8y ago
Heroic efforts on futile attempts to keep dying patients alive have a huge cost in human suffering and we, as a society, really ought to stop making them. http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/17/who-by-very-slow-decay/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/17/who-by-very-slow-decay/ http://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die/ideas/nexus/ http://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die...
- nsporillo 8y ago
  Thank you for linking these. Extremely compelling articles that everyone ought to read and consider.

by jand 8y ago

newsbinator 8y ago

More data is good. It's better if this becomes an ethical/moral problem about when to care for patients and to what degree, rather than a guessing game problem while anybody's guess is as good as anybody else's.

dapearce 8y ago

>Customer A does not receive full medical support because "he's dying anyway"? Unless the patient consents to stop or reduce care, this would be medical negligence, which is illegal (in the US). Medical providers are required by law to provide medical treatment with all the knowledge and skill they possess.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> Medical providers are required by law to provide medical treatment with all the knowledge and skill they possess. No, to avoid liability for malpractice, they need to meet the “professional standard of care”, which is assessed by general practice in the medical community, not “all the knowledge and skill” the individual provider possesses.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
dekhn 8y ago
This is not factually correct.
Broken_Hippo 8y ago
I wish that were the case. They'll treat you in the ER, but not make sure you can actually purchase antibiotics to cure the thing that brought you to the ER to begin with, nor make sure you can afford the bone specialist you need to see for your surgery. Anything short of an emergency and you can be denied care due to finances. Even if your problem is cancer or they know it will eventually be an emergency or life-threatening. Money is part of the reason folks will use the emergency room instead of urgent care: Urgent care requires upfront payment, the emergency room does not. Many doctors will refuse to see someone if they do not pay upfront. Luckily, different agencies tend to step in with end of life care.
- Spivak 8y ago
  What is the ER going to do about the fact that you can't afford a prescription or treatment/surgery from a specialist? Their job is pretty much to stop you from dying right now and direct you to another doctor when you're stable. You can also present insurance upfront but same difference I suppose. A world where you didn't have to pay upfront would make care even more expensive because doctor's offices have to essentially become banks.
  - knuththetruth 8y ago
    >A world where you didn't have to pay upfront would make care even more expensive because doctor's offices have to essentially become banks. Those are called nationalized healthcare systems and are almost all cheaper than the US’ privatized system?
    - Spivak 8y ago
      Huh? The doctor is still getting guaranteed payment but by your government instead of you. I mean the world in which doctors had to accept patients regardless of their ability to pay and have to try and recover later.
      - knuththetruth 8y ago

Symmetry 8y ago

Heroic efforts on futile attempts to keep dying patients alive have a huge cost in human suffering and we, as a society, really ought to stop making them. http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/17/who-by-very-slow-decay/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/07/17/who-by-very-slow-decay/ http://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die/ideas/nexus/ http://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die...

nsporillo 8y ago
Thank you for linking these. Extremely compelling articles that everyone ought to read and consider.