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That's (to my ears) a very American sentiment. I'd say the closest thing we have in Europe would be found in France. It also carries a soft but audible 18th cen

That's (to my ears) a very American sentiment. I'd say the closest thing we have in Europe would be found in France. It also carries a soft but audible 18th century, liberal resonance. Yous really are sister republics. Heh. Anyway... I disagree (amicably). I think this is a terrible state of affairs. A fearful regime is a dangerous one. Fear is the enemy of "us" and this is degenerative to a republic, and oppressive in non-republics. The GDR feared the people would overthrow. Assad fears the people. It doesn't generally result in "we'll do a better job so they like us." It results in building up a populist (and sometimes violent) popular counterbalance. It results in paranoid spying and attempts at control. I know HN prefers high brow, philosophical quotes but this really does sum everything up, even if it's campy. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering - yoda

orwin 8y ago
> I'd say the closest thing we have in Europe would be found in France I don't know about other countries, but you're right, some Frenchmen want the government to fear them, because it's one way to keep the power in check. We also have a really strong executive power who kinda own legislative rights and have control over a tiny bit of the judiciary system, so it's understandable.
- dalbasal 8y ago
  :) I won't pretend I understand the nuances but to us it seems almost comical. Train schedule changes, and people are upset? Fires will be lit.
  - candiodari 8y ago
    Oh come on, people in France are upset because [1], and especially given his election platform that's more than understandable imho. I mean, given who Macron was this was entirely predictable, but many people believed he'd changed. For what reason ... I cannot fathom. But then again, Australia did essentially the same: an ex-Goldman Sachs vice president (with half his immediate family still GS VPs) will change the country to be more fair ! Oh wait ... he didn't. Quite the opposite in fact. Cue complete and total amazement. [1] https://www.politico.eu/article/macron-labor-reform-5-key-points/ https://www.politico.eu/article/macron-labor-reform-5-key-po...
gepi79 8y ago
An elected government does not fear its voters. And Assad does not fear the people. Damascus: https://www.unusualtraveler.com/damascus/ https://www.unusualtraveler.com/damascus/ Aleppo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6omfaKhZL0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6omfaKhZL0 Ghouta: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K49aHbU1JPg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K49aHbU1JPg
mseebach 8y ago
I you're taking "fear" slightly too literally for the purposes of this idea. In a way, in the extreme, it is literal: in a healthy democracy, the citizens are so comfortable in their sovereignty that they would be willing as a last resort to forcibly, physically remove a despotic leader. But healthy democracies also have strong institutions that will check such a leader and eventually replace him peacefully - so this fear is mostly theoretical. In the more symbolic sense, the "fear" is simply to be understood as the citizens having the absolute power to get rid of their leaders through the democratic process. If you want to be a leader, and if you want to stay in office, you basically have to keep the people happy (very broadly speaking, of course), there are no shortcuts in the long run for this. It's "fear" in the sense of "fearing the next election".
- dalbasal 8y ago
  I agree the symbolic elements are important, but it often seems (from my distant perspective) like fairly blunt symbolism. Americans brandish muskets, and challenge the government to come get them. The French start building barricades.

orwin 8y ago

> I'd say the closest thing we have in Europe would be found in France I don't know about other countries, but you're right, some Frenchmen want the government to fear them, because it's one way to keep the power in check. We also have a really strong executive power who kinda own legislative rights and have control over a tiny bit of the judiciary system, so it's understandable.

dalbasal 8y ago
:) I won't pretend I understand the nuances but to us it seems almost comical. Train schedule changes, and people are upset? Fires will be lit.
- candiodari 8y ago
  Oh come on, people in France are upset because [1], and especially given his election platform that's more than understandable imho. I mean, given who Macron was this was entirely predictable, but many people believed he'd changed. For what reason ... I cannot fathom. But then again, Australia did essentially the same: an ex-Goldman Sachs vice president (with half his immediate family still GS VPs) will change the country to be more fair ! Oh wait ... he didn't. Quite the opposite in fact. Cue complete and total amazement. [1] https://www.politico.eu/article/macron-labor-reform-5-key-points/ https://www.politico.eu/article/macron-labor-reform-5-key-po...

gepi79 8y ago

An elected government does not fear its voters. And Assad does not fear the people. Damascus: https://www.unusualtraveler.com/damascus/ https://www.unusualtraveler.com/damascus/ Aleppo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6omfaKhZL0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6omfaKhZL0 Ghouta: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K49aHbU1JPg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K49aHbU1JPg

mseebach 8y ago

I you're taking "fear" slightly too literally for the purposes of this idea. In a way, in the extreme, it is literal: in a healthy democracy, the citizens are so comfortable in their sovereignty that they would be willing as a last resort to forcibly, physically remove a despotic leader. But healthy democracies also have strong institutions that will check such a leader and eventually replace him peacefully - so this fear is mostly theoretical. In the more symbolic sense, the "fear" is simply to be understood as the citizens having the absolute power to get rid of their leaders through the democratic process. If you want to be a leader, and if you want to stay in office, you basically have to keep the people happy (very broadly speaking, of course), there are no shortcuts in the long run for this. It's "fear" in the sense of "fearing the next election".

dalbasal 8y ago
I agree the symbolic elements are important, but it often seems (from my distant perspective) like fairly blunt symbolism. Americans brandish muskets, and challenge the government to come get them. The French start building barricades.