5 ms·

Lawyer here. Opened my own practice after the 2008 collapse because no firms were hiring. Best decision I was ever forced to make.

anoncoward111 8y ago
Congrats :) Do you feel that law school is too expensive for nearly all applicants besides those who are eventually hired by big firms to make 175k a year?
- wtvanhest 8y ago
  Not op, but obviously. If you have 200k in debt and dont even break 100k per year... it isnt a positive thing.
  - henryfjordan 8y ago
    There are a lot more factors that makes this not "obvious". If you can make 40k as a paralegal and 80k as a lawyer, and you are 25 (30ish more working years), investing 3 years and 200k in law school might make sense. 30 years * 40k/year = 1.2mil ((30 years - 3 years) * 80k/year) - 200k = ~2.3mil This assumes you can pay that 200k all at once upon graduation and that salary is stagnant, but even if you drop that first assumption take your whole career to pay off your loans and end up paying 2-3x the principle you still come out ahead with a law degree. Don't choose education for money though, choose it because you want to be educated.
    - wtvanhest 8y ago
      Paralegals often make more than lawyers who don't get to big law and those jobs are not open to people who went to law school bc they are "over qualified". I agree with not choosing an education due to money, but money is a great reason to NOT choose an education. Law is a totally broken model where the 5% who get big law do great and the other 95% get slaughtered.
      - anoncoward111 8y ago
        Your last sentence is the reason I asked my original question, and the reason I didn't go into law. I now only ("only") make 3000 usd a month, but at least I have 0 debt
      - mark212 8y ago
        I disagree completely. That's not at all my experience. There are far too many lawyers who expect that when they get their bar cards, they're entitled to a premium wage just for showing up. The real work starts when you pass the bar. And professional education isn't really "an education." That's undergrad. Go to law school because you enjoy the work and want to be a professional -- here I'm using the definition by the estimable Dr. J: "being a professional means doing what you love even on days when you don't feel like doing it."
        wtvanhest 8y ago
        Hard work has nothing to do with the fact that the market is bifurcated between haves and have nots. 30 years ago a law degree was relatively affordable and you could make it work by hustling. Now, you are toast if you don't get the big law job because your payments on $200k will be $2k/month. That will wipe out your ability to start a practice and you are effectively doomed. Big law jobs only go to something like 5% of lawyers. (correct me if I am wrong). The other 95% would be better off doing any other job.
- mark212 8y ago
  no, forget the big firms. In private practice I made 10x what my former classmates brought home, even after they made partner. The real money is in working for yourself, so if you're the sort of person who wants to be entreprenurial and work hard, there's plenty of money to be made. There's also a lot of law schools that aren't super-expensive. The real question is one that's not unique to lawyers, but we as a profession seem to complain more loudly than others, and it's the work-life balance. Too many lawyers just don't enjoy the day-to-day of what they do. But there are plenty of options for stepping off the treadmill and making less money in exchange for quality of life. Like a lot of careers and industries.

anoncoward111 8y ago

Congrats :) Do you feel that law school is too expensive for nearly all applicants besides those who are eventually hired by big firms to make 175k a year?

wtvanhest 8y ago
Not op, but obviously. If you have 200k in debt and dont even break 100k per year... it isnt a positive thing.
- henryfjordan 8y ago
  There are a lot more factors that makes this not "obvious". If you can make 40k as a paralegal and 80k as a lawyer, and you are 25 (30ish more working years), investing 3 years and 200k in law school might make sense. 30 years * 40k/year = 1.2mil ((30 years - 3 years) * 80k/year) - 200k = ~2.3mil This assumes you can pay that 200k all at once upon graduation and that salary is stagnant, but even if you drop that first assumption take your whole career to pay off your loans and end up paying 2-3x the principle you still come out ahead with a law degree. Don't choose education for money though, choose it because you want to be educated.
  - wtvanhest 8y ago
    Paralegals often make more than lawyers who don't get to big law and those jobs are not open to people who went to law school bc they are "over qualified". I agree with not choosing an education due to money, but money is a great reason to NOT choose an education. Law is a totally broken model where the 5% who get big law do great and the other 95% get slaughtered.
    - anoncoward111 8y ago
      Your last sentence is the reason I asked my original question, and the reason I didn't go into law. I now only ("only") make 3000 usd a month, but at least I have 0 debt
    - mark212 8y ago
      I disagree completely. That's not at all my experience. There are far too many lawyers who expect that when they get their bar cards, they're entitled to a premium wage just for showing up. The real work starts when you pass the bar. And professional education isn't really "an education." That's undergrad. Go to law school because you enjoy the work and want to be a professional -- here I'm using the definition by the estimable Dr. J: "being a professional means doing what you love even on days when you don't feel like doing it."
      - wtvanhest 8y ago
        Hard work has nothing to do with the fact that the market is bifurcated between haves and have nots. 30 years ago a law degree was relatively affordable and you could make it work by hustling. Now, you are toast if you don't get the big law job because your payments on $200k will be $2k/month. That will wipe out your ability to start a practice and you are effectively doomed. Big law jobs only go to something like 5% of lawyers. (correct me if I am wrong). The other 95% would be better off doing any other job.
mark212 8y ago
no, forget the big firms. In private practice I made 10x what my former classmates brought home, even after they made partner. The real money is in working for yourself, so if you're the sort of person who wants to be entreprenurial and work hard, there's plenty of money to be made. There's also a lot of law schools that aren't super-expensive. The real question is one that's not unique to lawyers, but we as a profession seem to complain more loudly than others, and it's the work-life balance. Too many lawyers just don't enjoy the day-to-day of what they do. But there are plenty of options for stepping off the treadmill and making less money in exchange for quality of life. Like a lot of careers and industries.