4 ms·

Isn't this extremely risky of a thing to do? Give rights to a company that has developed nothing for a design that has not been implemented anywhere else? Every

Isn't this extremely risky of a thing to do? Give rights to a company that has developed nothing for a design that has not been implemented anywhere else? Every major city outside of the US in the world has solutions to this, mostly being direct express trains. Why do something different like this?

Maybestring 8y ago
At least at this stage, Chicago isn't paying for it. So... why not?
- WillEngler 8y ago
  Yeah. IMO the stakes aren't super-high because, as the journalist mentions, Chicago already has decently fast and consistent service via the Blue Line from downtown to ORD. Given that, it would be odd for CTA, Cook County, or the feds to throw money at getting marginal gains on an airport express line when there are much bigger wins to be had at lower cost by, eg, improving reliability of bus service in the South Side (https://southsideweekly.com/beyond-the-l-proposal-south-side-public-transit/ https://southsideweekly.com/beyond-the-l-proposal-south-side...). The express line is (imo) a silly issue for Rahm et al to be giving as much attention to as they are, but as long as we're just at the stage where Elon Musk is spitballing how to build a whiz-bang tunnel of the future and Illinois tax money isn't going to it ... sure, go for it
  - cozzyd 8y ago
    Rahm's audience isn't city residents (most of whom won't use this train) but companies that might choose their HQ's partially based on such considerations.
    - WillEngler 8y ago
      That's useful to foreground and I agree that's his target. There is a reasonable argument to be made that a constellation of policies targeted at courting big businesses will bring more of the likes of McDonald's, Caterpillar, Boeing, etc to downtown Chicago, and this will help lift all boats. Meanwhile, it's unclear how much finite political capital and staffer attention this project burns that could have been, eg, directed towards tracking down funding for the Red Line expansion. Maybe they can walk and chew gum. More likely they can only chew like three sticks of gum and I wish this weren't one of those sticks. (Not that you were making a claim either way. I'm just riffing on your post.)
    - bigpicture 8y ago
      The Blue Line isn't a train to the airport, it's a commuter line that just happens to have an airport at one end of it. Airport-bound passengers have luggage that takes up space, blocks aisles and seats, etc. Moving them to a dedicated airport train frees up a lot of capacity that city residents will happily accept and appreciate.
kjksf 8y ago
One possibility: because when those projects are awarded in U.S. to the usual suspects, the projects start with exorbitant costs and decade-long timelines and then the price goes up and timeline slips by years. See for example California High-Speed Rail: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/12/californias-77-billion-high-speed-rail-project-is-in-trouble.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/12/californias-77-billion-high-... Or "The Most Expensive Mile of Subway Track on Earth" (in New York): https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-... Apparently we do need to give it to someone who can control the cost and deliver things within our lifetime.
- tigershark 8y ago
  3.5B$/mile is absolutely insane. London crossrail was built perfectly on time and supposedly only with a small increase of the budget (a couple hundred millions). And it costs around 15B£ for more than 100km and something like 50 stations.
  - isostatic 8y ago
    That's somewhat unfair comparison - most of the length of track already existed above ground and didn't need a lot of work There's 10 new stations and about 40km of tunnel (20km each way) That said the tunneling cost alone came out about £30m per km, so about $65m per mile.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - tomp 8y ago
    Crossrail isn't built yet, and it's definitely not on time (e.g. [1]) (but for some reason I keep people saying this!). [1] https://1londonblog.uk/2018/01/04/bond-streets-crossrail-station-off-track/ https://1londonblog.uk/2018/01/04/bond-streets-crossrail-sta...
    - tigershark 8y ago
_Codemonkeyism 8y ago
Saffy: ‘I’m sorry, Mum, but I’ve never seen what you actually do’ Eddy: ‘PR!’ Saffy: ‘Yes, but…’ Eddy: ‘PR! I PR things! People. Places. Concepts.’
- _Codemonkeyism 8y ago
  No love for Absolutely Fabulous here!
cozzyd 8y ago
Chicago already has a subway train from O'Hare to the loop. It takes ~40 minutes to get downtown and is often crowded (and at night may have homeless people sleeping in it), but a normal express train would usually not beat it in time (an express train might be twice as fast, but won't come as often), so something like this becomes attractive. Also, the previous Mayor built a massive hole in the ground downtown for an express train, and it makes it look less bad if it's used.
- sitkack 8y ago
  The Blue Line train to the airport is also 30%-50% than taking the freeway. Esp during rush hour, the train takes a constant time where one has no idea how long it would take by car.
SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
I suppose the same could've been said about SpaceX in the early days. Those huge Tesla battery banks too, come to think of it.

Maybestring 8y ago

At least at this stage, Chicago isn't paying for it. So... why not?

WillEngler 8y ago
Yeah. IMO the stakes aren't super-high because, as the journalist mentions, Chicago already has decently fast and consistent service via the Blue Line from downtown to ORD. Given that, it would be odd for CTA, Cook County, or the feds to throw money at getting marginal gains on an airport express line when there are much bigger wins to be had at lower cost by, eg, improving reliability of bus service in the South Side (https://southsideweekly.com/beyond-the-l-proposal-south-side-public-transit/ https://southsideweekly.com/beyond-the-l-proposal-south-side...). The express line is (imo) a silly issue for Rahm et al to be giving as much attention to as they are, but as long as we're just at the stage where Elon Musk is spitballing how to build a whiz-bang tunnel of the future and Illinois tax money isn't going to it ... sure, go for it
- cozzyd 8y ago
  Rahm's audience isn't city residents (most of whom won't use this train) but companies that might choose their HQ's partially based on such considerations.
  - WillEngler 8y ago
    That's useful to foreground and I agree that's his target. There is a reasonable argument to be made that a constellation of policies targeted at courting big businesses will bring more of the likes of McDonald's, Caterpillar, Boeing, etc to downtown Chicago, and this will help lift all boats. Meanwhile, it's unclear how much finite political capital and staffer attention this project burns that could have been, eg, directed towards tracking down funding for the Red Line expansion. Maybe they can walk and chew gum. More likely they can only chew like three sticks of gum and I wish this weren't one of those sticks. (Not that you were making a claim either way. I'm just riffing on your post.)
  - bigpicture 8y ago
    The Blue Line isn't a train to the airport, it's a commuter line that just happens to have an airport at one end of it. Airport-bound passengers have luggage that takes up space, blocks aisles and seats, etc. Moving them to a dedicated airport train frees up a lot of capacity that city residents will happily accept and appreciate.

kjksf 8y ago

One possibility: because when those projects are awarded in U.S. to the usual suspects, the projects start with exorbitant costs and decade-long timelines and then the price goes up and timeline slips by years. See for example California High-Speed Rail: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/12/californias-77-billion-high-speed-rail-project-is-in-trouble.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/12/californias-77-billion-high-... Or "The Most Expensive Mile of Subway Track on Earth" (in New York): https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-construction-costs.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-... Apparently we do need to give it to someone who can control the cost and deliver things within our lifetime.

tigershark 8y ago
3.5B$/mile is absolutely insane. London crossrail was built perfectly on time and supposedly only with a small increase of the budget (a couple hundred millions). And it costs around 15B£ for more than 100km and something like 50 stations.
- isostatic 8y ago
  That's somewhat unfair comparison - most of the length of track already existed above ground and didn't need a lot of work There's 10 new stations and about 40km of tunnel (20km each way) That said the tunneling cost alone came out about £30m per km, so about $65m per mile.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- tomp 8y ago
  Crossrail isn't built yet, and it's definitely not on time (e.g. [1]) (but for some reason I keep people saying this!). [1] https://1londonblog.uk/2018/01/04/bond-streets-crossrail-station-off-track/ https://1londonblog.uk/2018/01/04/bond-streets-crossrail-sta...
  - tigershark 8y ago

_Codemonkeyism 8y ago

Saffy: ‘I’m sorry, Mum, but I’ve never seen what you actually do’ Eddy: ‘PR!’ Saffy: ‘Yes, but…’ Eddy: ‘PR! I PR things! People. Places. Concepts.’

_Codemonkeyism 8y ago
No love for Absolutely Fabulous here!

cozzyd 8y ago

Chicago already has a subway train from O'Hare to the loop. It takes ~40 minutes to get downtown and is often crowded (and at night may have homeless people sleeping in it), but a normal express train would usually not beat it in time (an express train might be twice as fast, but won't come as often), so something like this becomes attractive. Also, the previous Mayor built a massive hole in the ground downtown for an express train, and it makes it look less bad if it's used.

sitkack 8y ago
The Blue Line train to the airport is also 30%-50% than taking the freeway. Esp during rush hour, the train takes a constant time where one has no idea how long it would take by car.

SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago

I suppose the same could've been said about SpaceX in the early days. Those huge Tesla battery banks too, come to think of it.