8 ms·

I can recommend it. The way it works in civilised countries is that you can still attempt to negotiate your terms, however the union negotiates annual across th

by neffy 8y ago

I can recommend it. The way it works in civilised countries is that you can still attempt to negotiate your terms, however the union negotiates annual across the board increases, and critically circulates reliable information on what the salary ranges and compensation packages are. Which as you might imagine, makes it much easier to effectively negotiate. They also provide additional insurances for things like glasses, funding for education, and a range of subsidised country cottages with outdoor hot tubs for summer holidays. Seriously, you guys are missing out.

nickik 8y ago
Yeah because every country with unions is automatically civilized and gets all these things.
adventured 8y ago
And here we are, US tech workers dramatically out-earn all other nations except for Switzerland. The average programmer in the US earns 30% more than they do in Norway (a particularly rich nation); and ~75% more than in Sweden. Apparently the way your 'civilized' nations work, is they pay labor a lot less. France, infamous for their powerful unions, has enjoyed annual wage growth about 80% lower than the US over the last 20 years, leaving them trailing horribly behind the US on wages. The US median full-time income is higher than all nations on earth except for three (Norway, Switzerland, Australia). Your recommendation is for US labor to earn a lot less. If you were right, the union-friendly nations would dramatically out-earn US labor. Nearly without exception, the exact opposite is true.
- neffy 8y ago
  I've worked in the USA as a developer. I wouldn't do it again for any amount of money. Money is an imperfect measure of total value. The total value to me of my comfortable home, full medical insurance regardless of employment status, short commuting distance, 7 weeks of paid holiday, well I won't bore you with all the details. Just the amount of time saved in not having to argue with US medical insurance companies about fully insured bills, is worth it to me. So yes, I'll take civilisation - when I add it all up, I not only earn more here, but I actually have some spare time to spend it in.
- rohit2412 8y ago
  Wow, why did you pick the tech industry specifically? I guess Sweden has its own silicon valley with Facebook, Google, Msft, Apple etc? Tech salaries have nothing to do with unions, infact are tech salaries in sweden also union negotiated?
- watwut 8y ago
  You gotta count also Norway social system through - cheaper healthcare and good cheap school system. And also hours worked, both per week and with vacations. Things like that matter.
- kraig911 8y ago
  I'm not following your numbers here. In my recollection our wages have largely been stagnant since 2004? Do you have means to back up your claims? Meanwhile wage growth from what I've seen in the EU has grown. Especially say in England and Norway?

by neffy 8y ago

nickik 8y ago

Yeah because every country with unions is automatically civilized and gets all these things.

adventured 8y ago

And here we are, US tech workers dramatically out-earn all other nations except for Switzerland. The average programmer in the US earns 30% more than they do in Norway (a particularly rich nation); and ~75% more than in Sweden. Apparently the way your 'civilized' nations work, is they pay labor a lot less. France, infamous for their powerful unions, has enjoyed annual wage growth about 80% lower than the US over the last 20 years, leaving them trailing horribly behind the US on wages. The US median full-time income is higher than all nations on earth except for three (Norway, Switzerland, Australia). Your recommendation is for US labor to earn a lot less. If you were right, the union-friendly nations would dramatically out-earn US labor. Nearly without exception, the exact opposite is true.

neffy 8y ago
I've worked in the USA as a developer. I wouldn't do it again for any amount of money. Money is an imperfect measure of total value. The total value to me of my comfortable home, full medical insurance regardless of employment status, short commuting distance, 7 weeks of paid holiday, well I won't bore you with all the details. Just the amount of time saved in not having to argue with US medical insurance companies about fully insured bills, is worth it to me. So yes, I'll take civilisation - when I add it all up, I not only earn more here, but I actually have some spare time to spend it in.
rohit2412 8y ago
Wow, why did you pick the tech industry specifically? I guess Sweden has its own silicon valley with Facebook, Google, Msft, Apple etc? Tech salaries have nothing to do with unions, infact are tech salaries in sweden also union negotiated?
watwut 8y ago
You gotta count also Norway social system through - cheaper healthcare and good cheap school system. And also hours worked, both per week and with vacations. Things like that matter.
kraig911 8y ago
I'm not following your numbers here. In my recollection our wages have largely been stagnant since 2004? Do you have means to back up your claims? Meanwhile wage growth from what I've seen in the EU has grown. Especially say in England and Norway?