8 ms·

Zoning can be an issue - there's an abandoned mall in Cupertino that's probably half a mile from the new Apple HQ. And to say it's prime land is an understateme

Zoning can be an issue - there's an abandoned mall in Cupertino that's probably half a mile from the new Apple HQ. And to say it's prime land is an understatement - the entire area is desperate for new housing. Current proposal is for 2,400 housing units on the land. But previous zoning proposal that were ballot initiatives got defeated (hurray democracy) and it's required a state bill to force the city's hand for zoning. (https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/02/community-reacts-to-developers-plan-for-old-vallco-mall/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/04/02/community-reacts-to-d...) But still no agreement between the city and the developers. I'm sure most malls will be trivial to rezone as cities would rather have something paying taxes rather than nothing but that's not the case everywhere.

pofilat 8y ago
Cities don't want housing. They want other cities to fund residents, while they extract their pound of flesh from business offices.
niftich 8y ago
Residential vs. non-residential zoning always tries to tilt towards non-residential, because it has a better potential of return. Although both pay property taxes and both require utility services like water, sewer, and waste collection, non-residential properties attract both in-town residents and outsiders from other jurisdictions, who then typically spend some money in your town. Meanwhile, residential attracts new residents, who may or may not take jobs in your town, could be spending money in other towns, but need high-cost social services like public schools and community programs in your town.
- seanp2k2 8y ago
  Or even worse, they transfer their Prop 13 to a “replacement property”: https://blog.yonathan.org/posts/2017-10-transferring-prop13-assessed-value.html https://blog.yonathan.org/posts/2017-10-transferring-prop13-...
- touristtam 8y ago
  That explains why Edinburgh allowed the St james centre to exist right in the city centre instead of keeping the existing housing stock there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._James_Centre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._James_Centre. The whole thing has been pulled down and a mixed development should be take its place in the next few years (alreayd underway).
duxup 8y ago
I remember traveling to work to the valley for the first time and driving by Apple HQ just to see it and then, going to the steakhouse near that mall (OMG was it good). I went by that mall and was thinking "WTF is this doing here with all this insanely expensive land and such!?!?!" I would half expect the bulldozers to show up with 10 minutes notice or something. I was driving around all amazed by "OMG I know all these cool companies!" .... "What the hell...."
- kirbypineapple 8y ago
  Was it Alexanders steak house? If so I did the same thing (drive by Apple HQ to see it and stopped at Alexanders).
  - duxup 8y ago
    Yup Alexanders! So yummy!
CharlesMerriam2 8y ago
I know that mall. The usual happened; developers wanted to build lots of housing and no infrastructure. The builder had recently reneged on elderly housing units in another development and were not believed about building a park on top of the structure. Building density housing is cheap compared to building the schools, parks, fire, police stations, and transportation to support the new density housing.
- ianferrel 8y ago
  > Building density housing is cheap compared to building the schools, parks, fire, police stations, and transportation to support the new density housing. Are developers expected to build those? Don't cities build roads, schools, parks, and police stations with the tax income from the people who live in the houses?
  - seanp2k2 8y ago
    Yeah, and to be clear, we’re talking “luxury” apartments here, not anything single-family. Bay Area developers ALWAYS pull this: promise “affordable” housing and only sometimes get stuck accepting affordable housing programs into their otherwise-expensive apartments. Examples of the developers who lost: https://www.lowincomehousing.us/CA/santa_clara.html https://www.lowincomehousing.us/CA/santa_clara.html Btw: The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) defines "affordable" as housing that costs no more than 30 percent of a household's monthly income.
  - vorpalhex 8y ago
    Can't collect tax income until people live there. Can't build fire stations or bus lines where there's no room. We've had this problem with developers as well - they want to build mega high-rise apartments with no parking whatsoever and force the city to deal with it, despite the city struggling to fill current transportation demand.
    - seanp2k2 8y ago
      Crazy when apartments in the city have no parking and you have to factor in an additional $300/month for a parking space that might be a 10 minute walk from your apartment. It’s like US cities maybe aren’t actually the best in the world or something.

pofilat 8y ago

Cities don't want housing. They want other cities to fund residents, while they extract their pound of flesh from business offices.

niftich 8y ago

Residential vs. non-residential zoning always tries to tilt towards non-residential, because it has a better potential of return. Although both pay property taxes and both require utility services like water, sewer, and waste collection, non-residential properties attract both in-town residents and outsiders from other jurisdictions, who then typically spend some money in your town. Meanwhile, residential attracts new residents, who may or may not take jobs in your town, could be spending money in other towns, but need high-cost social services like public schools and community programs in your town.

seanp2k2 8y ago
Or even worse, they transfer their Prop 13 to a “replacement property”: https://blog.yonathan.org/posts/2017-10-transferring-prop13-assessed-value.html https://blog.yonathan.org/posts/2017-10-transferring-prop13-...
touristtam 8y ago
That explains why Edinburgh allowed the St james centre to exist right in the city centre instead of keeping the existing housing stock there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._James_Centre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._James_Centre. The whole thing has been pulled down and a mixed development should be take its place in the next few years (alreayd underway).

duxup 8y ago

I remember traveling to work to the valley for the first time and driving by Apple HQ just to see it and then, going to the steakhouse near that mall (OMG was it good). I went by that mall and was thinking "WTF is this doing here with all this insanely expensive land and such!?!?!" I would half expect the bulldozers to show up with 10 minutes notice or something. I was driving around all amazed by "OMG I know all these cool companies!" .... "What the hell...."

kirbypineapple 8y ago
Was it Alexanders steak house? If so I did the same thing (drive by Apple HQ to see it and stopped at Alexanders).
- duxup 8y ago
  Yup Alexanders! So yummy!

CharlesMerriam2 8y ago

I know that mall. The usual happened; developers wanted to build lots of housing and no infrastructure. The builder had recently reneged on elderly housing units in another development and were not believed about building a park on top of the structure. Building density housing is cheap compared to building the schools, parks, fire, police stations, and transportation to support the new density housing.

ianferrel 8y ago
> Building density housing is cheap compared to building the schools, parks, fire, police stations, and transportation to support the new density housing. Are developers expected to build those? Don't cities build roads, schools, parks, and police stations with the tax income from the people who live in the houses?
- seanp2k2 8y ago
  Yeah, and to be clear, we’re talking “luxury” apartments here, not anything single-family. Bay Area developers ALWAYS pull this: promise “affordable” housing and only sometimes get stuck accepting affordable housing programs into their otherwise-expensive apartments. Examples of the developers who lost: https://www.lowincomehousing.us/CA/santa_clara.html https://www.lowincomehousing.us/CA/santa_clara.html Btw: The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) defines "affordable" as housing that costs no more than 30 percent of a household's monthly income.
- vorpalhex 8y ago
  Can't collect tax income until people live there. Can't build fire stations or bus lines where there's no room. We've had this problem with developers as well - they want to build mega high-rise apartments with no parking whatsoever and force the city to deal with it, despite the city struggling to fill current transportation demand.
  - seanp2k2 8y ago
    Crazy when apartments in the city have no parking and you have to factor in an additional $300/month for a parking space that might be a 10 minute walk from your apartment. It’s like US cities maybe aren’t actually the best in the world or something.