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Hi all! This is my first time posting something to HN, so please be kind. I wanted to show what I’ve been working on for the last 6 months: NoKey, a password

by Zinggi 8y ago

Hi all! This is my first time posting something to HN, so please be kind. I wanted to show what I’ve been working on for the last 6 months: NoKey, a password manager without a master password. Instead, you can unlock your passwords by confirming from another device. E.g. if you need a password on your PC, you only have to confirm this on your phone. No need to remember any passwords! The vast majority of the code is written in Elm and it’s fully open source. There is a browser extension for Chrome and Firefox and an Android app. The application is only useful with at least two devices, so to really test it out, you’ll have to install it on two devices. There is no iOS version and the web app doesn’t work on Safari either (it's missing some stuff from the Web Crypto API), sorry! Any feedback or questions are greatly appreciated!

jazoom 8y ago
Could someone use Firefox and Chrome extension on the same device as two different devices?
- Zinggi 8y ago
  Yes, but it's a very bad idea. If you'd do this, you could unlock your passwords with a single device by confirming on Firefox or vice-versa on Chrome. This of course also means that if someone steals this device, they can unlock it too. So don't do it.
  - jazoom 8y ago
    Yeah. That's what I don't want. So how do you prevent someone doing just that? They have Chrome open. They then confirm setup in Firefox using Chrome on the same device.
    - Zinggi 8y ago
      When pairing a new device (or in this case a new browser), that device doesn't automatically get any keys! When adding a new device, to complete the setup you also have to be able to unlock a password group, for which you need another device that already has keys. In short, a new device doesn't have the same power as the others from the start, first new keys have to be generated which can only happen if you are able to unlock your passwords. So just don't setup both the Firefox and Chrome extension and you're golden.
      - jazoom 8y ago
        Ah. So you essentially need 2 devices to set up a new device.
        Zinggi 8y ago
        Exactly. Or even 3 if you make use of security level 3. The only exception is at the start when there are no passwords stored yet.
        jazoom 8y ago
        That's pretty interesting. It's a trade-off between remembering a password and making sure you have enough devices. I personally would trust my brain (and a backup piece of paper) more than one of my devices that might die at any moment. I use KeePass, but NoKey seems great.
        Zinggi 8y ago
        But wouldn't you agree that your brain + NoKey instead of a piece of paper as a backup would be more secure? And more convenient, as you don't have to type your passwords anymore. I don't wanna push you, just wanna give you some things to think about. As long as you use strong and unique passwords everywhere you're good. Also, it's not a big problem if one of your devices dies, as long as you paired enough devices you won't lose any passwords.
        jazoom 8y ago
        Sorry, what I said was probably confusing. I meant, I keep the password to KeePass in my brain and in backup places. I'm unlikely to lose all those. >Also, it's not a big problem if one of your devices dies, as long as you paired enough devices you won't lose any passwords. Not everyone has a million devices.
        Zinggi 8y ago
qz3 8y ago
I love the Idea, and I think it's pretty smart. When I'm doing work on my laptop, I always have my phone nearby. I think it's unlikely that both of them are compromised or stolen simultaneously. Also, the Android app requires no device permissions, haven't seen that in a while.
- Zinggi 8y ago
  > the Android app requires no device permissions That's not true, it just uses the new way to ask for permissions. E.g. when you want to scan a QR code it requires the camera permission. But it only asks at that moment, not upfront as older android apps used to do

by Zinggi 8y ago

jazoom 8y ago

Could someone use Firefox and Chrome extension on the same device as two different devices?

Zinggi 8y ago
Yes, but it's a very bad idea. If you'd do this, you could unlock your passwords with a single device by confirming on Firefox or vice-versa on Chrome. This of course also means that if someone steals this device, they can unlock it too. So don't do it.
- jazoom 8y ago
  Yeah. That's what I don't want. So how do you prevent someone doing just that? They have Chrome open. They then confirm setup in Firefox using Chrome on the same device.
  - Zinggi 8y ago
    When pairing a new device (or in this case a new browser), that device doesn't automatically get any keys! When adding a new device, to complete the setup you also have to be able to unlock a password group, for which you need another device that already has keys. In short, a new device doesn't have the same power as the others from the start, first new keys have to be generated which can only happen if you are able to unlock your passwords. So just don't setup both the Firefox and Chrome extension and you're golden.
    - jazoom 8y ago
      Ah. So you essentially need 2 devices to set up a new device.
      - Zinggi 8y ago
        Exactly. Or even 3 if you make use of security level 3. The only exception is at the start when there are no passwords stored yet.
        jazoom 8y ago
        That's pretty interesting. It's a trade-off between remembering a password and making sure you have enough devices. I personally would trust my brain (and a backup piece of paper) more than one of my devices that might die at any moment. I use KeePass, but NoKey seems great.
        Zinggi 8y ago
        But wouldn't you agree that your brain + NoKey instead of a piece of paper as a backup would be more secure? And more convenient, as you don't have to type your passwords anymore. I don't wanna push you, just wanna give you some things to think about. As long as you use strong and unique passwords everywhere you're good. Also, it's not a big problem if one of your devices dies, as long as you paired enough devices you won't lose any passwords.
        jazoom 8y ago
        Sorry, what I said was probably confusing. I meant, I keep the password to KeePass in my brain and in backup places. I'm unlikely to lose all those. >Also, it's not a big problem if one of your devices dies, as long as you paired enough devices you won't lose any passwords. Not everyone has a million devices.
        Zinggi 8y ago

qz3 8y ago

I love the Idea, and I think it's pretty smart. When I'm doing work on my laptop, I always have my phone nearby. I think it's unlikely that both of them are compromised or stolen simultaneously. Also, the Android app requires no device permissions, haven't seen that in a while.

Zinggi 8y ago
> the Android app requires no device permissions That's not true, it just uses the new way to ask for permissions. E.g. when you want to scan a QR code it requires the camera permission. But it only asks at that moment, not upfront as older android apps used to do