5 ms·

Excuse me but the median senior software engineer at Microsoft does not make $400k/yr in TC. Same goes for AMZN. There are only a handful of companies that pay

Excuse me but the median senior software engineer at Microsoft does not make $400k/yr in TC. Same goes for AMZN. There are only a handful of companies that pay $400k/yr for senior software engineers and MSFT ain't one of them (facebook, and google do however). Go checkout Blind if you don't believe. Or ask your friend at MSFT. And like someone else said, first level managers are more like 250-350k range, not 400k, yes even at G and FB. Uber and Airbnb don't pay that much either. Sorry I don't count paper money as real money.

dmode 8y ago
I didn't say median. I said it is L5-L6 comp, which doesn't make it a median as I assume most engineers will be in L1-L4 band. That said, it is not an outlier either. And won't be surprised is 20-30% of engineering and PM orgs are making that money. Also, Uber and Airbnb gives RSUs which are not paper money. I am confident that an IPO for both these companies are inevitable.
- toephu2 8y ago
  RSU's in a company that hasn't gone public are not very liquid... not paper money, but definitely not worth face value. Take that value and cut it in half or 1/4.
  - dunpeal 8y ago
    Still a lot better than stock options in a startup that isn't even close to liquidity.
  - philsnow 8y ago
    You picked .5 or .25 as the multiplier. If it's still 2-5 years until a public offering, it's also quite possible for the multiplier to be closer to 1.5 or 2. Everybody has a different assessment of how likely each outcome is, so everybody has a different expected value.
_m96l 8y ago
> There are only a handful of companies that pay $400k/yr for senior software engineers and MSFT ain't one of them (facebook, and google do however). None of the companies in top tier tech can afford to pay substantially less than any of its competitors. That's why they're "top tech". If what you said was true, and FB or Google paid a lot more than say MSFT or AMZN, then all the best senior engineers would eventually leave the latter for the former, and only the bottom talent will retain. Then the latter won't be top tech in any meaningful sense. In reality, FAANG are grouped together because they pay about the same and can compete with each other for the same level of talent. Other companies are in this category, just not as famous.
- altano 8y ago
  No, he’s correct. MSFT pays a lot more in the Bay Area than Seattle because the cost of living is so much lower in Seattle (no state income tax, housing, etc) that they can get away with paying a lot less. My total compensation went up by ~80% going from MSFT to FB (but my housing costs 3x in the Bay Area vs what I had in Boston so it’s not as large an increase as it sounds).
  - dunpeal 8y ago
    What you're saying is that the difference isn't between companies - MSFT vs FB - but between areas: Seattle vs Bay. I'm mostly aware of pay in the Bay and a few similar areas, and it is largely equivalent at the levels posted here.
    - jkaplowitz 8y ago
      Google pays the same pre-tax in Seattle as in the Bay Area, at Bay Area rates in each case. So it's also between companies even within the Seattle context. (Or at least that's the official line. I haven't examined any de facto pre-tax pay disparities between the two locations. But at least they don't adjust comp when one transfers between those locations, or between either of them and NYC; whereas they do for relos those areas and significantly cheaper areas.) Source: personal memories of policies from 3-5 years ago, which could have changed but probably haven't.
seanmcdirmid 8y ago
Anecdotally, I know plenty of 66s and 67s at Microsoft that are pulling $300-500k in TC. Microsoft’s stock rise has also made this decade extremely nice for grants. Course, with the average house going for $1 million in Kirkland, they have to spend it.
- freyir 8y ago
  If you’re making $300k-$500k a year, a $1M house is extremely attainable.
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    Yes, but they need to spend the money of course.
zuhayeer 8y ago
Most of the employees are certainly making less, becomes pretty obvious with the http://levels.fyi http://levels.fyi salaries per level (only starts going above 400K after L6 @ Google & FB)

dmode 8y ago

I didn't say median. I said it is L5-L6 comp, which doesn't make it a median as I assume most engineers will be in L1-L4 band. That said, it is not an outlier either. And won't be surprised is 20-30% of engineering and PM orgs are making that money. Also, Uber and Airbnb gives RSUs which are not paper money. I am confident that an IPO for both these companies are inevitable.

toephu2 8y ago
RSU's in a company that hasn't gone public are not very liquid... not paper money, but definitely not worth face value. Take that value and cut it in half or 1/4.
- dunpeal 8y ago
  Still a lot better than stock options in a startup that isn't even close to liquidity.
- philsnow 8y ago
  You picked .5 or .25 as the multiplier. If it's still 2-5 years until a public offering, it's also quite possible for the multiplier to be closer to 1.5 or 2. Everybody has a different assessment of how likely each outcome is, so everybody has a different expected value.

_m96l 8y ago

> There are only a handful of companies that pay $400k/yr for senior software engineers and MSFT ain't one of them (facebook, and google do however). None of the companies in top tier tech can afford to pay substantially less than any of its competitors. That's why they're "top tech". If what you said was true, and FB or Google paid a lot more than say MSFT or AMZN, then all the best senior engineers would eventually leave the latter for the former, and only the bottom talent will retain. Then the latter won't be top tech in any meaningful sense. In reality, FAANG are grouped together because they pay about the same and can compete with each other for the same level of talent. Other companies are in this category, just not as famous.

altano 8y ago
No, he’s correct. MSFT pays a lot more in the Bay Area than Seattle because the cost of living is so much lower in Seattle (no state income tax, housing, etc) that they can get away with paying a lot less. My total compensation went up by ~80% going from MSFT to FB (but my housing costs 3x in the Bay Area vs what I had in Boston so it’s not as large an increase as it sounds).
- dunpeal 8y ago
  What you're saying is that the difference isn't between companies - MSFT vs FB - but between areas: Seattle vs Bay. I'm mostly aware of pay in the Bay and a few similar areas, and it is largely equivalent at the levels posted here.
  - jkaplowitz 8y ago
    Google pays the same pre-tax in Seattle as in the Bay Area, at Bay Area rates in each case. So it's also between companies even within the Seattle context. (Or at least that's the official line. I haven't examined any de facto pre-tax pay disparities between the two locations. But at least they don't adjust comp when one transfers between those locations, or between either of them and NYC; whereas they do for relos those areas and significantly cheaper areas.) Source: personal memories of policies from 3-5 years ago, which could have changed but probably haven't.

seanmcdirmid 8y ago

Anecdotally, I know plenty of 66s and 67s at Microsoft that are pulling $300-500k in TC. Microsoft’s stock rise has also made this decade extremely nice for grants. Course, with the average house going for $1 million in Kirkland, they have to spend it.

freyir 8y ago
If you’re making $300k-$500k a year, a $1M house is extremely attainable.
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  Yes, but they need to spend the money of course.

zuhayeer 8y ago

Most of the employees are certainly making less, becomes pretty obvious with the http://levels.fyi http://levels.fyi salaries per level (only starts going above 400K after L6 @ Google & FB)