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Have my doubts that this is as much a real issue as it is people upset over change. When I buy 'beefless beef crumbles', I'm not confused. I'd be willing to b

Have my doubts that this is as much a real issue as it is people upset over change. When I buy 'beefless beef crumbles', I'm not confused. I'd be willing to bet the number of people that are actually confused rounds to zero. As much as I love the idea of veggie based meat parity, its still not there so even if someone was confused once (which probably doesn't really happen), they won't be confused the second time. Also, at what point is the label about the content rather than the source? If I make an impossible burger thats indistinguishable from an animal product, does it matter that it came from plants? What if I clone cells from meat tissue into steaks? Is that meat? It still puts these guys out of business... Change hurts, but pretending this is a naming issue is just posturing by an industry that uses tons of land for grazing, for growing (multiple states in the midwest dedicated to corn for feed..., and has been shown to treat animals horribly. Why not just say 'what are we going to do' instead of some straw man about semantics and marketplace confusion that doesn't really hold water.

frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago
>When I buy 'beefless beef crumbles', I'm not confused. You don't think someone may buy this product believing that it's actually beef? It seems pretty easy to make that mistake to me. Besides if they described themselves as 'beefless beef crumbles' instead of 'beef crumbles beefy' it probably wouldn't be an issue. https://store.veganessentials.com/beyond-beef-crumbles-by-beyond-meat-p4226.aspx https://store.veganessentials.com/beyond-beef-crumbles-by-be... >If I make an impossible burger thats indistinguishable from an animal product, does it matter that it came from plants? If I make a chicken patty from a caged chicken that's indistinguishable from organic, free-range chickens, does it matter that it came from a cage? Can I sell it as 'organic, free range chicken patties'? Of course it matters. Consumers have a fundamental right to know what it is that they're buying. >Change hurts, but pretending this is a naming issue is just posturing by an industry that uses tons of land for grazing I'm not going to defend meat industry practices but pretending like this isn't about actual false advertising is wrong. Look at these products. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Beyond-Meat-Beast-Burger/137284038 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Beyond-Meat-Beast-Burger/13728403... https://www.walmart.com/ip/Beyond-Meat-Chicken-Grilled-Strip/119191370 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Beyond-Meat-Chicken-Grilled-Strip... These are being placed directly next to meat (you know, the animal flesh kind). This most definitely is an issue of false advertising.
- taysic 8y ago
  I think there's an argument made that some packaging can be confusing. They might think the term 'beyond meat' is clear enough but not everyone will. Perhaps stores need to stock them in different locations - in fact, that's how I nearly always see it done. I think supermarkets have ample incentive to not deceive their customers. At the same time, disallowing vegetarian companies from using the words 'milk' or 'meat' seems like complete overreach. Vegetarians / vegans think of these products in terms of what they are an imitation of, and they want to understand what the product is going for. It's incredibly useful to be able to use these terms. Not to mention they are already the way people colloquially refer to them. I don't think the 'real' versions should have a monopoly on those words at all.
  - frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago
    >At the same time, disallowing vegetarian companies from using the words 'milk' or 'meat' seems like complete overreach. Vegetarians / vegans think of these products in terms of what they are an imitation of, and they want to understand what the product is going for. It's incredibly useful to be able to use these terms. Not to mention they are already the way people colloquially refer to them. I don't think the 'real' versions should have a monopoly on those words at all. Well let's take it back to my chicken example. I'm raising antibiotic-loaded chickens in tiny cages. I want consumers to think of my meat and egg products in terms of what they are an imitation of - free range organic chicken products. I think this would be really useful to the consumer. It also seems unfair to me that only chicken which is actually free range or organic should have a monopoly on those terms. Should I be able to include 'free range' or 'organic' in my advertising? You see those chicken strips in my previous comment? What if instead of saying 'REAL MEAT' in big text and then below in smaller text '100% plant protein' - it said 'REAL ORGANIC' in big text and then below in smaller text it said 'cage raised'? It would obviously be wrong to attempt to confuse the consumer in that way. I think people here are confusing whether realistic meat substitutes are a good development (they are) and whether they're meat (they're not.) If we just flip this scenario and pretend it's Tyson using the same advertising practices as Beyond Meat it becomes obvious how wrong this really is. >Not to mention they are already the way people colloquially refer to them. I have never heard anyone refer to a patty of soy and pea protein (or beets or heme or what have you) as 'beef' or 'meat.' In my experience they call it a 'veggie burger.'

frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago

>When I buy 'beefless beef crumbles', I'm not confused. You don't think someone may buy this product believing that it's actually beef? It seems pretty easy to make that mistake to me. Besides if they described themselves as 'beefless beef crumbles' instead of 'beef crumbles beefy' it probably wouldn't be an issue. https://store.veganessentials.com/beyond-beef-crumbles-by-beyond-meat-p4226.aspx https://store.veganessentials.com/beyond-beef-crumbles-by-be... >If I make an impossible burger thats indistinguishable from an animal product, does it matter that it came from plants? If I make a chicken patty from a caged chicken that's indistinguishable from organic, free-range chickens, does it matter that it came from a cage? Can I sell it as 'organic, free range chicken patties'? Of course it matters. Consumers have a fundamental right to know what it is that they're buying. >Change hurts, but pretending this is a naming issue is just posturing by an industry that uses tons of land for grazing I'm not going to defend meat industry practices but pretending like this isn't about actual false advertising is wrong. Look at these products. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Beyond-Meat-Beast-Burger/137284038 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Beyond-Meat-Beast-Burger/13728403... https://www.walmart.com/ip/Beyond-Meat-Chicken-Grilled-Strip/119191370 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Beyond-Meat-Chicken-Grilled-Strip... These are being placed directly next to meat (you know, the animal flesh kind). This most definitely is an issue of false advertising.

taysic 8y ago
I think there's an argument made that some packaging can be confusing. They might think the term 'beyond meat' is clear enough but not everyone will. Perhaps stores need to stock them in different locations - in fact, that's how I nearly always see it done. I think supermarkets have ample incentive to not deceive their customers. At the same time, disallowing vegetarian companies from using the words 'milk' or 'meat' seems like complete overreach. Vegetarians / vegans think of these products in terms of what they are an imitation of, and they want to understand what the product is going for. It's incredibly useful to be able to use these terms. Not to mention they are already the way people colloquially refer to them. I don't think the 'real' versions should have a monopoly on those words at all.
- frgtpsswrdlame 8y ago
  >At the same time, disallowing vegetarian companies from using the words 'milk' or 'meat' seems like complete overreach. Vegetarians / vegans think of these products in terms of what they are an imitation of, and they want to understand what the product is going for. It's incredibly useful to be able to use these terms. Not to mention they are already the way people colloquially refer to them. I don't think the 'real' versions should have a monopoly on those words at all. Well let's take it back to my chicken example. I'm raising antibiotic-loaded chickens in tiny cages. I want consumers to think of my meat and egg products in terms of what they are an imitation of - free range organic chicken products. I think this would be really useful to the consumer. It also seems unfair to me that only chicken which is actually free range or organic should have a monopoly on those terms. Should I be able to include 'free range' or 'organic' in my advertising? You see those chicken strips in my previous comment? What if instead of saying 'REAL MEAT' in big text and then below in smaller text '100% plant protein' - it said 'REAL ORGANIC' in big text and then below in smaller text it said 'cage raised'? It would obviously be wrong to attempt to confuse the consumer in that way. I think people here are confusing whether realistic meat substitutes are a good development (they are) and whether they're meat (they're not.) If we just flip this scenario and pretend it's Tyson using the same advertising practices as Beyond Meat it becomes obvious how wrong this really is. >Not to mention they are already the way people colloquially refer to them. I have never heard anyone refer to a patty of soy and pea protein (or beets or heme or what have you) as 'beef' or 'meat.' In my experience they call it a 'veggie burger.'