5 ms·

…why shouldn't a vendor be allowed to charge more for tiered service? Right now all content producers are roughly in the same position: it’s equally easy/hard

by zoul 8y ago

…why shouldn't a vendor be allowed to charge more for tiered service? Right now all content producers are roughly in the same position: it’s equally easy/hard for them to get the same amounts of data to the consumer. Once you make it possible to put some producers before others, the wealthiest producers will use whatever means possible to be the chosen ones. In other words, Facebook will do their first and last to be free & fast everywhere. Given the last few years of experience with big players, I don’t think that’s a good idea.

ocdtrekkie 8y ago
This isn't really true. Netflix, for example, strongarms ISPs into colocating their boxes for free, which bring massive amounts of their data closer to consumers, and guarantees them some of the best performance on the Internet. If ISPs were able to charge for this (they want to), Netflix would have to pay a lot more for this sort of premium placement, giving smaller players much more room to compete financially. (i.e., if Netflix's cost to provide this best-in-class service they currently get for free is much higher, either it's more financially viable for small companies to pay for the same service, or they'll be able to offer video on demand cheaper than Netflix does)
- zoul 8y ago
  …giving smaller players much more room to compete financially. I beg your pardon?
- jonbarker 8y ago
  I don't think the debate is over whether to allow Netflix to survive, Netflix will be OK and has a good bargaining position with regard to ISPs because they have content everyone wants. The more interesting question is are we creating a system that allows independent bloggers, vloggers, and other content creators to get discovered and be compensated either through ads or subscriptions or some other model.
- bootlooped 8y ago
  > If ISPs were able to charge for this (they want to), Netflix would have to pay a lot more for this sort of premium placement, giving smaller players much more room to compete financially. This sounds like you're claiming that greater barriers to entry make it easier for smaller firms. In economics I think the opposite is generally accepted as true.
- mcguire 8y ago
  What stops Netflix from getting ISPs to slow access to other, smaller video players? It's not like the customers have a choice.
- nneonneo 8y ago
  Can you provide a citation for this? Curious to see what kinds of arrangements they made. What’s to say that Netflix won’t strongarm ISPs after the NN repeal? No ISP wants to be the ISP that doesn’t have good Netflix support anymore, given their popularity and clout.
  - monocasa 8y ago
    Comcast owns 30% of Hulu. They'd probably like for Netflix to be slow, but Hulu to be fast.
- tzs 8y ago
  > his isn't really true. Netflix, for example, strongarms ISPs into colocating their boxes for free How do they "strongarm" them?
- Dylan16807 8y ago
  > If ISPs were able to charge for this (they want to), Netflix would have to pay a lot more for this sort of premium placement, giving smaller players much more room to compete financially. We've already seen that ISPs will abuse peering to charge for non-premium placement. And they'll charge that to smaller players too. So the end result is that Netflix will still get colocated, while smaller players are even worse off because they're paying extra for peering.

by zoul 8y ago

ocdtrekkie 8y ago

This isn't really true. Netflix, for example, strongarms ISPs into colocating their boxes for free, which bring massive amounts of their data closer to consumers, and guarantees them some of the best performance on the Internet. If ISPs were able to charge for this (they want to), Netflix would have to pay a lot more for this sort of premium placement, giving smaller players much more room to compete financially. (i.e., if Netflix's cost to provide this best-in-class service they currently get for free is much higher, either it's more financially viable for small companies to pay for the same service, or they'll be able to offer video on demand cheaper than Netflix does)

zoul 8y ago
…giving smaller players much more room to compete financially. I beg your pardon?
jonbarker 8y ago
I don't think the debate is over whether to allow Netflix to survive, Netflix will be OK and has a good bargaining position with regard to ISPs because they have content everyone wants. The more interesting question is are we creating a system that allows independent bloggers, vloggers, and other content creators to get discovered and be compensated either through ads or subscriptions or some other model.
bootlooped 8y ago
> If ISPs were able to charge for this (they want to), Netflix would have to pay a lot more for this sort of premium placement, giving smaller players much more room to compete financially. This sounds like you're claiming that greater barriers to entry make it easier for smaller firms. In economics I think the opposite is generally accepted as true.
mcguire 8y ago
What stops Netflix from getting ISPs to slow access to other, smaller video players? It's not like the customers have a choice.
nneonneo 8y ago
Can you provide a citation for this? Curious to see what kinds of arrangements they made. What’s to say that Netflix won’t strongarm ISPs after the NN repeal? No ISP wants to be the ISP that doesn’t have good Netflix support anymore, given their popularity and clout.
- monocasa 8y ago
  Comcast owns 30% of Hulu. They'd probably like for Netflix to be slow, but Hulu to be fast.
tzs 8y ago
> his isn't really true. Netflix, for example, strongarms ISPs into colocating their boxes for free How do they "strongarm" them?
Dylan16807 8y ago
> If ISPs were able to charge for this (they want to), Netflix would have to pay a lot more for this sort of premium placement, giving smaller players much more room to compete financially. We've already seen that ISPs will abuse peering to charge for non-premium placement. And they'll charge that to smaller players too. So the end result is that Netflix will still get colocated, while smaller players are even worse off because they're paying extra for peering.