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Country Time Lemonade Will Pay Legal Fees for Unlicensed Lemonade Stands

231 points by ca98am79 8y ago

Matt3o12_ 8y ago
This seems to be PR move since not a lot of people can participate and only $300 of the legal fees are reimbursed: > Open to legal residents of the 50 U.S. (including D.C.), who are the parents or legal guardians of a child 14 years of age or younger operating a lemonade stand. Program ends 11:59pm ET on 8/31/18 or when $60,000 worth of offers have been awarded, whichever comes first. For complete Terms and Conditions, including status of available offers, and all other details, visit countrytimelegalade.com. > [From the article]: You can’t even be 13 or younger to participate due to child privacy laws Nevertheless, aren’t there any laws that help such “hobbies“ (considering how little money that should make, and that underage children are voluntarily “working”, one can’t really call it a “business”.
- chrisseaton 8y ago
  I don’t think it’s just about being a business - it’s also about not being inspected properly for health reasons isn’t it? The same problems exist I believe for volunteers who prepare food for homeless people.
  - mdip 8y ago
    I suspect you are correct - I seem to recall that the last time this landed in the national news it was specific to health code, not business permits.
  - dannyw 8y ago
    The chances of improperly producing lemonade that also doesn't have a bad taste seems de nullis. It's like banning you from putting on a band-aid on a friend, because that's practicing medicine.
    - davidkuhta 8y ago
      New from Johnson & Johnson: "Band-Ade! Tired of all those lonely nights in jail because you helped a friend with a bandage? Here at J&J we've established a legal fund to ensure..."
    - DanBC 8y ago
      > improperly producing lemonade that also doesn't have a bad taste You can't taste food poisoning. Go smell a fresh chicken. It smells like chicken, even if it's riddled with campylobacter or salmonella.
  - Someone1234 8y ago
    > The same problems exist I believe for volunteers who prepare food for homeless people. Let's be honest, cities don't want volunteers feeding the homeless because they want them in someone else's back-yard, so they'll use any regulatory tricks and fines they can (inc. arresting the volunteers) to stop it.
  - Shivetya 8y ago
    in most localities the police won't even stop unless someone calls. usually you see that in a HOA but in the one I am subject to they just asked them to be in the cul de sac, it would only shut down when you guessed it, some anonymous neighbor called the cops. so yes you can also lay claim to health issues but let us be honest, you don't have to drink it to play along. as long as its obviously just kids having fun and not parents exploiting kids for cuteness to get money where is the harm. the occupational other license requirements in the US is just insane.
  - balabaster 8y ago
    I don't think I'll ever really understand this law. If you invite someone into your home for a meal (that you don't charge for), you're not subjected to health department regulation. How exactly is it different to prepare food for homeless people in your home? What if you invite them for dinner instead of taking it to them? Why are you subject to regulations in one scenario but not the other, given that the end goal is identical - to give away food to people who want to eat. Genuine question... I don't get it.
    - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
      Food regulations are for health. When you feed your own family and friends, fine. When you ramp up to feeding dozens or hundreds, then you can make a whole community sick with one mistake in the kitchen. Its a practical threshold to help avoid spread of disease. Not an ivory-tower absolute. Local municipalities can and do vary on the details.
      - balabaster 8y ago
        Okay, I understand this point. But I also see community events where they grab half a dozen barbecues and feed thousands of people. Untrained volunteers manning the barbecues, that haven't been inspected and lord knows when they were last cleaned. Nobody seems to care, in fact most people in the community seem to love these, me included - paying for the possibility of getting sick just because "barbecuueeee." </homer> There seems to be extremely large grey areas where enforcement turns a blind eye, no matter how the regulations are written. I'm not complaining by any means, I love community barbecues and social events and I would hate to see health regulators interfering with their spirit, but it seems as though they pick and choose what they enforce and ignore based entirely on the mood of the supervisor on any given day.
        chrisseaton 8y ago
        > but it seems as though they pick and choose what they enforce and ignore based entirely on the mood of the supervisor on any given day More charitably, I'd say they use their professional judgement and assess risk.
- mdip 8y ago
  Well, if my anecdotal experience -- literally just a few minutes ago -- is any indication, it's a brilliant PR move. I read the story to my wife this morning and she said "Awww, and I just purchased Country Time Lemonaid" and went on and on about how cool it was that they were doing that. I suspect that cases of government bureaucracy interfering with children's lemonaid stands is a pretty rare thing. I don't have any evidence handy but my suspicions originate from the fact that whenever some child's lemonaid stand gets shut down it seems to make its way into newspapers all throughout the country -- if it were a common occurrence, it wouldn't be newsworthy. So it's an easy win - it drums up some happy feelings for the kool-aid equivalent of lemonaid, reminds government bureaucrats that there are better uses for their resources and might result in them having to spend $300, maybe $600 dollars in related complaints if I'm correct about its rarity.
- mikeash 8y ago
  Of course it’s a PR move. Who would ever think it’s not?
- Pigo 8y ago
  It definitely doesn't hurt their image, but it also informs the public about an issue they care about. There is only so much they can do, especially because of child privacy laws. But it's getting the word out about regulation they deem unnecessary. I haven't seen a lemonade stand in a long time, but I would cross two streets to support a little entrepreneur.
- rory096 8y ago
  >only $300 of the legal fees are reimbursed How much do you think these permits cost? At $25 each, 2,400 kids could take advantage of it. They're unlikely to be $300 on average. >You can’t even be 13 or younger to participate due to child privacy laws This is true of everything on the internet. The intent is for the parent to be the one signing up, as it explains in the next sentence.
  - FireBeyond 8y ago
    If you've been fined for failing to obtain a business license, is the gist of what they're doing, not paying for the license.
    - rory096 8y ago
      They're doing both. >There are two ways to enter: (1) If your child received a fine for operating a lemonade stand without a permit during the 2017 or 2018 calendar year, take a photo of the fine and a write brief description of what your child's lemonade stand means to him or her, in his or her own words. (2) If you are seeking reimbursement for a permit, follow the instructions to upload the image of the permit for 2018 and a brief description of what your child's lemonade stand means to him or her, in his or her own words. https://www.countrytimelegalade.com/public/fulfillment/rules.pdf https://www.countrytimelegalade.com/public/fulfillment/rules...
- ianamartin 8y ago
  Of course it'a a PR stunt. And it's a damn good one.
- mikece 8y ago
  Not just a PR move but a BRILLIANT one! For a commitment of $60,000 in $300 chunks they are going to get millions of dollars worth of free advertising in the form of news stories.
- evancox100 8y ago
  You (and the author) are misunderstanding the age requirements. It's _only_ open to kids 14 and younger, it just legally goes through their parents. I don't think kids 15 and up are usually the ones running lemonade stands.
- wastedhours 8y ago
  > who are the parents or legal guardians of a child 14 years of age Essentially confirming that the parent/guardian is over 13 for privacy reasons (you'd certainly hope they would be in any case), not the child operating the stand. It's perhaps one of the most blatant PR moves there is, and it's an incredibly good one.
- ErnestedCode 8y ago
  Definitely a PR move. What 14 year-old is running a lemonade stand? I would guess there will be zero claims made.
ourmandave 8y ago
Is the system Working As It Should when a 6-year-old has to lawyer up?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Drakim 8y ago
  If anything he got off easy, think about all the patents he is probably violating. If you can get a patent for "Combination hamburger and hotdog bread bun" I don't see how anybody can be safe. You need a lawyer to walk across the street. https://patents.google.com/patent/USD584478?oq=hot+dog https://patents.google.com/patent/USD584478?oq=hot+dog
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - rory096 8y ago
    What's wrong with that design patent? It seems both unique and non-obvious to me, if a bit silly. I would be very surprised if its issuance put any existing bun manufacturer into infringement.
    - throwaway37585 8y ago
      What’s wrong with you? Sticking together a hamburger bun and a hot dog bun should not be patentable. How is that non-obvious?
      - rory096 8y ago
        "Easy" and "obvious" are very different things. Making a bun in that shape may not be difficult, but presumably no prior art exists — nobody's ever done it before, at least in public. The patentholder is not a patent troll, but an entrepreneur working on international franchising for the 'hamdog' concept. Silly yes, terrible business idea definitely, misuse of the patent system no. [0] http://wnep.com/2016/09/22/meet-the-hamdog-a-hot-dog-and-hamburger-all-in-one/ http://wnep.com/2016/09/22/meet-the-hamdog-a-hot-dog-and-ham... [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/21/the-hotdog-and-hamburger-unite-to-become-the-hamdogand-its-coming-to-america.html https://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/21/the-hotdog-and-hamburger-uni...
joshuahedlund 8y ago
I remember getting outraged by some outrage-inducing article a few years back, but after seeing the kids in my neighborhood year after year now I wonder, was that just a viral exception? What percent of unlicensed lemonade stands get shut down these days anyway?
- merpnderp 8y ago
  No one likes governments that picks on kids to make sure they pony up hundreds of dollars for a business license fee. Yet somehow those governments exist. They make the news for the same reason murderers make the news, not that they're common, but that they exist.
  - dsfyu404ed 8y ago
    The bureaucrats who didn't tell the busybody to screw off (in more a appropriate bureaucratic fashion) are just as much fault as the busybody.
- peterwwillis 8y ago
  I think the main point should be, this article is essentially viral news clickbait that's empty of any valuable content. (I clicked the "flag" button, and if you agree, you should too)
- cujo 8y ago
  Every time I see one of those outrage inducing articles, I assume there was a lot of backstory missed and this is just how the situation bubbled up. For example, if a neighbor calls in a kid's lemonade stand, I'm assuming that neighbor has had multiple issues with that family and can't make any headway, so shit just blows up. I'm not saying it's right, but I doubt someone just wakes up and says "HELL NO!" to an 8 year old's 3 hour project on the sidewalk.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - Azeolus 8y ago
buro9 8y ago
As a UK person without context of the background, this was a little hard to make sense of. AFAICT there's some gig economy company called Country Time Lemonade who have managed to get a workforce of child labour for free, and yet it is the stall (small business) that requires a permit and so the startup behind it is offering refunds on the permit fees? What have I got wrong?
- mjcl 8y ago
  Country Time sells powered lemonade in US supermarkets. Separately, there’s a US tradition of children setting up lemonade stands to make pocket money during the summer. Typically parents help buy the supplies, the idea being that the kids are learning to work for money instead of being just given it outright. Some US cities have strict permit requirements for selling food & beverage which has lead to silly looking photos/stories of police giving 10 year old kids tickets. This is basically a publicity stunt by Country Time lemonade.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- laken 8y ago
  Country Time Lemonade is a lemonade company, who primarily sell lemonade in powder form to mix with water. Lemonade stands are a cliche way for kids to make money in the United States, however, it is technically illegal without a permit (though I've personally never heard of a kid getting shut down). Country Time is a popular choice for kids making lemonade stands because it's cheap and easy. Country Time Lemonade is starting a legal defense fund of sorts to help kids fight back after they get their lemonade stands shut down.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    Here are a few kids getting shut down: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3171665 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3171665 https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/08/03/the-inexplicable-war-on-lemonade-stands/#28f2ef6d2a52 https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/08/03/the-inexpli...
- 8y ago
mkirklions 8y ago
Is there a link to something better than a blog?
sharemywin 8y ago
inciting civil disobedience for corporate purposes. What could go wrong? Are we slowly conditioning our children to take up arms to defend corporations against "we the people"?
- wooter 8y ago
  seriously? the blame is on government, local or otherwise, for criminalizing safe, voluntary interactions. requiring licenses of children operating a lemonade stand is indoctrinating a serious level of statism, which historically has had far more victims.
  - sharemywin 8y ago
    you want a stupid little law like that overturned get a petition and take it to your local city counsel.
sumoboy 8y ago
You wouldn't know lemonade stands were shutdown if social media didn't expose it. But what it should be is a lesson for cities to adopt a young entrepreneur license for like $10/year. There will always be some angry a-hole who will call the cops or HOA idiot whining. My suburbia neighborhood there were people who wanted to share books with people freely in a small mailbox near the curb, like a mini-library. Someone started whining and the city was like "it's illegal to have such a structure" so once it hit the news people went crazy over the stupidity of the cities response. I always stop for the bad lemonade at these stands, even tell these kids how to market better with better signs that you can read. I remember knocking on doors selling vegetable seed packets, shoveling snow and whatever to make a few bucks to really appreciate the dollar. I think it's a great PR idea, definitely a creative video, and everytime they intervene it's another story.
- subway 8y ago
  Should young entrepreneurs be exempt from health code too? It's pretty fucking rare for lemonade stands to be shut down due to lack of a "business license". They're shut down due to health non-compliance. Whether those health restrictions are too strict or lax has very little to do with the age of the person in or out of compliance.
  - sillysaurus3 8y ago
    ...An interesting question, but I'm leaning towards "yes." 1. Our immune systems are pretty good. Much better than is generally appreciated. 2. People usually buy lemonade from lemonade stands to support the kids, not for the taste.
  - robhunter 8y ago
    Do you have any sources for what you're saying? I have read dozens of examples of lemonade stands being shut down because of the lack of a business license. I have not read any mentioning health code non-compliance. FWIW - you put water and powder in a large cup with ice cubes, then pour it into smaller cups. Not sure you need a 60 minute health inspection for something like that.
rayiner 8y ago
Never too early to teach kids to fight the overbearing regulatory state.
CodeSheikh 8y ago
HOA is a metaphorical termite. If you are planning on buying a new house buy into some old neighborhood. It i not worth dealing with them just for the sake of someone cutting your grass once a week.
- fixermark 8y ago
  As with many things, it goes both ways. One of the neighborhoods in my town had a neighbor run a Nazi flag up the flagpole in his front yard, just because some homeowners are real-life edgelords. They would have appreciated having a blanket HOA rule about maintaining property values and "eyesores" to fall back on, because in the absence of such, it turned out to be pretty difficult in the American legal environment to find anything with which they could compel him to take the flag down. On the other hand, I've seen a different neighborhood try to use the local covenants to ban a backyard solar farm, because they argued solar panels are uniformly an eyesore. Tools are tools; people use them.
  - driverdan 8y ago
    > it turned out to be pretty difficult in the American legal environment to find anything with which they could compel him to take the flag down. Pretty difficult? It should be impossible. Remember that pesky constitutional amendment that guarantees free speech? It applies.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - fixermark 8y ago
      It does apply, but it's unclear whether it leads to optimal outcomes. Germany has outlawed public displays of Nazi symbols; it doesn't have the problems of overt fascism that the US is currently struggling with. Perhaps it has merely replaced them with covert fascism, and perhaps this is merely correlation that doesn't imply causation. But I get the distinct impression that such is not actually the case; that legal disapproval of naziism in Germany re-enforces general disapproval. Plus, America's First Amendment doesn't uniformly guarantee freedom of speech. Hate speech, for example, and incitement to riot, are two categories that are generally not considered protected. I don't think flying a Nazi flag falls under either of those (though if one really squints hard, it could set a person up for much worse---the US negotiated a peace with Germany after World War II, but not with the Nazi party. One could make a claim that flying an enemy flag on American soil is tantamount to claiming that territory has been conquered, which opens the situation up to military intervention ;) ).
fixermark 8y ago
"Big company subverts local ownership of governance with massive amounts of money." I'm not sure if this is a feel-good success story or a case study in the flaws of capitalism in an increasingly-connected global society.
MariaHealth 8y ago
http://everydayhappy7.com/2017/08/07/know-can-detox-body-feet/ http://everydayhappy7.com/2017/08/07/know-can-detox-body-fee...
jtsnow 8y ago
Utah has passed legislation to protect lemonade stands and other childhood businesses. This has spurred weekend child entrepreneur markets. See https://fee.org/articles/lemonade-stands-legalized-in-utah/ https://fee.org/articles/lemonade-stands-legalized-in-utah/
duxup 8y ago
Is this "real"? The website for it seems kinda silly-ish. https://www.countrytimelegalade.com https://www.countrytimelegalade.com
dpeck 8y ago
take it for what it is folks, a good promotion.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
brandonmenc 8y ago
I'm almost 40 years old, grew up mostly in the burbs, and I never ran a lemonade stand, nor have I ever in my entire life seen kids running a lemonade stand. I'm betting this hasn't really been a "tradition" since the 1950s. Get a paper route - at least then you won't be giving anyone food poisoning.
circa 8y ago
Wow they really go after ANY small businesses, don't they!?
circa 8y ago
Also, I still love that Geico Ice T Lemonade commercial. One of the very very few commercials I enjoyed.

231 points by ca98am79 8y ago

This seems to be PR move since not a lot of people can participate and only $300 of the legal fees are reimbursed: > Open to legal residents of the 50 U.S. (including D.C.), who are the parents or legal guardians of a child 14 years of age or younger operating a lemonade stand. Program ends 11:59pm ET on 8/31/18 or when $60,000 worth of offers have been awarded, whichever comes first. For complete Terms and Conditions, including status of available offers, and all other details, visit countrytimelegalade.com. > [From the article]: You can’t even be 13 or younger to participate due to child privacy laws Nevertheless, aren’t there any laws that help such “hobbies“ (considering how little money that should make, and that underage children are voluntarily “working”, one can’t really call it a “business”.

chrisseaton 8y ago
I don’t think it’s just about being a business - it’s also about not being inspected properly for health reasons isn’t it? The same problems exist I believe for volunteers who prepare food for homeless people.
- mdip 8y ago
  I suspect you are correct - I seem to recall that the last time this landed in the national news it was specific to health code, not business permits.
- dannyw 8y ago
  The chances of improperly producing lemonade that also doesn't have a bad taste seems de nullis. It's like banning you from putting on a band-aid on a friend, because that's practicing medicine.
  - davidkuhta 8y ago
    New from Johnson & Johnson: "Band-Ade! Tired of all those lonely nights in jail because you helped a friend with a bandage? Here at J&J we've established a legal fund to ensure..."
  - DanBC 8y ago
    > improperly producing lemonade that also doesn't have a bad taste You can't taste food poisoning. Go smell a fresh chicken. It smells like chicken, even if it's riddled with campylobacter or salmonella.
- Someone1234 8y ago
  > The same problems exist I believe for volunteers who prepare food for homeless people. Let's be honest, cities don't want volunteers feeding the homeless because they want them in someone else's back-yard, so they'll use any regulatory tricks and fines they can (inc. arresting the volunteers) to stop it.
- Shivetya 8y ago
  in most localities the police won't even stop unless someone calls. usually you see that in a HOA but in the one I am subject to they just asked them to be in the cul de sac, it would only shut down when you guessed it, some anonymous neighbor called the cops. so yes you can also lay claim to health issues but let us be honest, you don't have to drink it to play along. as long as its obviously just kids having fun and not parents exploiting kids for cuteness to get money where is the harm. the occupational other license requirements in the US is just insane.
- balabaster 8y ago
  I don't think I'll ever really understand this law. If you invite someone into your home for a meal (that you don't charge for), you're not subjected to health department regulation. How exactly is it different to prepare food for homeless people in your home? What if you invite them for dinner instead of taking it to them? Why are you subject to regulations in one scenario but not the other, given that the end goal is identical - to give away food to people who want to eat. Genuine question... I don't get it.
  - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
    Food regulations are for health. When you feed your own family and friends, fine. When you ramp up to feeding dozens or hundreds, then you can make a whole community sick with one mistake in the kitchen. Its a practical threshold to help avoid spread of disease. Not an ivory-tower absolute. Local municipalities can and do vary on the details.
    - balabaster 8y ago
      Okay, I understand this point. But I also see community events where they grab half a dozen barbecues and feed thousands of people. Untrained volunteers manning the barbecues, that haven't been inspected and lord knows when they were last cleaned. Nobody seems to care, in fact most people in the community seem to love these, me included - paying for the possibility of getting sick just because "barbecuueeee." </homer> There seems to be extremely large grey areas where enforcement turns a blind eye, no matter how the regulations are written. I'm not complaining by any means, I love community barbecues and social events and I would hate to see health regulators interfering with their spirit, but it seems as though they pick and choose what they enforce and ignore based entirely on the mood of the supervisor on any given day.
      - chrisseaton 8y ago
        > but it seems as though they pick and choose what they enforce and ignore based entirely on the mood of the supervisor on any given day More charitably, I'd say they use their professional judgement and assess risk.
mdip 8y ago
Well, if my anecdotal experience -- literally just a few minutes ago -- is any indication, it's a brilliant PR move. I read the story to my wife this morning and she said "Awww, and I just purchased Country Time Lemonaid" and went on and on about how cool it was that they were doing that. I suspect that cases of government bureaucracy interfering with children's lemonaid stands is a pretty rare thing. I don't have any evidence handy but my suspicions originate from the fact that whenever some child's lemonaid stand gets shut down it seems to make its way into newspapers all throughout the country -- if it were a common occurrence, it wouldn't be newsworthy. So it's an easy win - it drums up some happy feelings for the kool-aid equivalent of lemonaid, reminds government bureaucrats that there are better uses for their resources and might result in them having to spend $300, maybe $600 dollars in related complaints if I'm correct about its rarity.
mikeash 8y ago
Of course it’s a PR move. Who would ever think it’s not?
Pigo 8y ago
It definitely doesn't hurt their image, but it also informs the public about an issue they care about. There is only so much they can do, especially because of child privacy laws. But it's getting the word out about regulation they deem unnecessary. I haven't seen a lemonade stand in a long time, but I would cross two streets to support a little entrepreneur.
rory096 8y ago
>only $300 of the legal fees are reimbursed How much do you think these permits cost? At $25 each, 2,400 kids could take advantage of it. They're unlikely to be $300 on average. >You can’t even be 13 or younger to participate due to child privacy laws This is true of everything on the internet. The intent is for the parent to be the one signing up, as it explains in the next sentence.
- FireBeyond 8y ago
  If you've been fined for failing to obtain a business license, is the gist of what they're doing, not paying for the license.
  - rory096 8y ago
    They're doing both. >There are two ways to enter: (1) If your child received a fine for operating a lemonade stand without a permit during the 2017 or 2018 calendar year, take a photo of the fine and a write brief description of what your child's lemonade stand means to him or her, in his or her own words. (2) If you are seeking reimbursement for a permit, follow the instructions to upload the image of the permit for 2018 and a brief description of what your child's lemonade stand means to him or her, in his or her own words. https://www.countrytimelegalade.com/public/fulfillment/rules.pdf https://www.countrytimelegalade.com/public/fulfillment/rules...
ianamartin 8y ago
Of course it'a a PR stunt. And it's a damn good one.
mikece 8y ago
Not just a PR move but a BRILLIANT one! For a commitment of $60,000 in $300 chunks they are going to get millions of dollars worth of free advertising in the form of news stories.
evancox100 8y ago
You (and the author) are misunderstanding the age requirements. It's _only_ open to kids 14 and younger, it just legally goes through their parents. I don't think kids 15 and up are usually the ones running lemonade stands.
wastedhours 8y ago
> who are the parents or legal guardians of a child 14 years of age Essentially confirming that the parent/guardian is over 13 for privacy reasons (you'd certainly hope they would be in any case), not the child operating the stand. It's perhaps one of the most blatant PR moves there is, and it's an incredibly good one.
ErnestedCode 8y ago
Definitely a PR move. What 14 year-old is running a lemonade stand? I would guess there will be zero claims made.

ourmandave 8y ago

Is the system Working As It Should when a 6-year-old has to lawyer up?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Drakim 8y ago
If anything he got off easy, think about all the patents he is probably violating. If you can get a patent for "Combination hamburger and hotdog bread bun" I don't see how anybody can be safe. You need a lawyer to walk across the street. https://patents.google.com/patent/USD584478?oq=hot+dog https://patents.google.com/patent/USD584478?oq=hot+dog
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- rory096 8y ago
  What's wrong with that design patent? It seems both unique and non-obvious to me, if a bit silly. I would be very surprised if its issuance put any existing bun manufacturer into infringement.
  - throwaway37585 8y ago
    What’s wrong with you? Sticking together a hamburger bun and a hot dog bun should not be patentable. How is that non-obvious?
    - rory096 8y ago
      "Easy" and "obvious" are very different things. Making a bun in that shape may not be difficult, but presumably no prior art exists — nobody's ever done it before, at least in public. The patentholder is not a patent troll, but an entrepreneur working on international franchising for the 'hamdog' concept. Silly yes, terrible business idea definitely, misuse of the patent system no. [0] http://wnep.com/2016/09/22/meet-the-hamdog-a-hot-dog-and-hamburger-all-in-one/ http://wnep.com/2016/09/22/meet-the-hamdog-a-hot-dog-and-ham... [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/21/the-hotdog-and-hamburger-unite-to-become-the-hamdogand-its-coming-to-america.html https://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/21/the-hotdog-and-hamburger-uni...

joshuahedlund 8y ago

I remember getting outraged by some outrage-inducing article a few years back, but after seeing the kids in my neighborhood year after year now I wonder, was that just a viral exception? What percent of unlicensed lemonade stands get shut down these days anyway?

merpnderp 8y ago
No one likes governments that picks on kids to make sure they pony up hundreds of dollars for a business license fee. Yet somehow those governments exist. They make the news for the same reason murderers make the news, not that they're common, but that they exist.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  The bureaucrats who didn't tell the busybody to screw off (in more a appropriate bureaucratic fashion) are just as much fault as the busybody.
peterwwillis 8y ago
I think the main point should be, this article is essentially viral news clickbait that's empty of any valuable content. (I clicked the "flag" button, and if you agree, you should too)
cujo 8y ago
Every time I see one of those outrage inducing articles, I assume there was a lot of backstory missed and this is just how the situation bubbled up. For example, if a neighbor calls in a kid's lemonade stand, I'm assuming that neighbor has had multiple issues with that family and can't make any headway, so shit just blows up. I'm not saying it's right, but I doubt someone just wakes up and says "HELL NO!" to an 8 year old's 3 hour project on the sidewalk.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Azeolus 8y ago

buro9 8y ago

As a UK person without context of the background, this was a little hard to make sense of. AFAICT there's some gig economy company called Country Time Lemonade who have managed to get a workforce of child labour for free, and yet it is the stall (small business) that requires a permit and so the startup behind it is offering refunds on the permit fees? What have I got wrong?

mjcl 8y ago
Country Time sells powered lemonade in US supermarkets. Separately, there’s a US tradition of children setting up lemonade stands to make pocket money during the summer. Typically parents help buy the supplies, the idea being that the kids are learning to work for money instead of being just given it outright. Some US cities have strict permit requirements for selling food & beverage which has lead to silly looking photos/stories of police giving 10 year old kids tickets. This is basically a publicity stunt by Country Time lemonade.
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laken 8y ago
Country Time Lemonade is a lemonade company, who primarily sell lemonade in powder form to mix with water. Lemonade stands are a cliche way for kids to make money in the United States, however, it is technically illegal without a permit (though I've personally never heard of a kid getting shut down). Country Time is a popular choice for kids making lemonade stands because it's cheap and easy. Country Time Lemonade is starting a legal defense fund of sorts to help kids fight back after they get their lemonade stands shut down.
- DanBC 8y ago
  Here are a few kids getting shut down: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3171665 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3171665 https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/08/03/the-inexplicable-war-on-lemonade-stands/#28f2ef6d2a52 https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2011/08/03/the-inexpli...
8y ago

mkirklions 8y ago

Is there a link to something better than a blog?

sharemywin 8y ago

inciting civil disobedience for corporate purposes. What could go wrong? Are we slowly conditioning our children to take up arms to defend corporations against "we the people"?

wooter 8y ago
seriously? the blame is on government, local or otherwise, for criminalizing safe, voluntary interactions. requiring licenses of children operating a lemonade stand is indoctrinating a serious level of statism, which historically has had far more victims.
- sharemywin 8y ago
  you want a stupid little law like that overturned get a petition and take it to your local city counsel.

sumoboy 8y ago

You wouldn't know lemonade stands were shutdown if social media didn't expose it. But what it should be is a lesson for cities to adopt a young entrepreneur license for like $10/year. There will always be some angry a-hole who will call the cops or HOA idiot whining. My suburbia neighborhood there were people who wanted to share books with people freely in a small mailbox near the curb, like a mini-library. Someone started whining and the city was like "it's illegal to have such a structure" so once it hit the news people went crazy over the stupidity of the cities response. I always stop for the bad lemonade at these stands, even tell these kids how to market better with better signs that you can read. I remember knocking on doors selling vegetable seed packets, shoveling snow and whatever to make a few bucks to really appreciate the dollar. I think it's a great PR idea, definitely a creative video, and everytime they intervene it's another story.

subway 8y ago
Should young entrepreneurs be exempt from health code too? It's pretty fucking rare for lemonade stands to be shut down due to lack of a "business license". They're shut down due to health non-compliance. Whether those health restrictions are too strict or lax has very little to do with the age of the person in or out of compliance.
- sillysaurus3 8y ago
  ...An interesting question, but I'm leaning towards "yes." 1. Our immune systems are pretty good. Much better than is generally appreciated. 2. People usually buy lemonade from lemonade stands to support the kids, not for the taste.
- robhunter 8y ago
  Do you have any sources for what you're saying? I have read dozens of examples of lemonade stands being shut down because of the lack of a business license. I have not read any mentioning health code non-compliance. FWIW - you put water and powder in a large cup with ice cubes, then pour it into smaller cups. Not sure you need a 60 minute health inspection for something like that.

rayiner 8y ago

Never too early to teach kids to fight the overbearing regulatory state.

CodeSheikh 8y ago

HOA is a metaphorical termite. If you are planning on buying a new house buy into some old neighborhood. It i not worth dealing with them just for the sake of someone cutting your grass once a week.

fixermark 8y ago
As with many things, it goes both ways. One of the neighborhoods in my town had a neighbor run a Nazi flag up the flagpole in his front yard, just because some homeowners are real-life edgelords. They would have appreciated having a blanket HOA rule about maintaining property values and "eyesores" to fall back on, because in the absence of such, it turned out to be pretty difficult in the American legal environment to find anything with which they could compel him to take the flag down. On the other hand, I've seen a different neighborhood try to use the local covenants to ban a backyard solar farm, because they argued solar panels are uniformly an eyesore. Tools are tools; people use them.
- driverdan 8y ago
  > it turned out to be pretty difficult in the American legal environment to find anything with which they could compel him to take the flag down. Pretty difficult? It should be impossible. Remember that pesky constitutional amendment that guarantees free speech? It applies.
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  - fixermark 8y ago
    It does apply, but it's unclear whether it leads to optimal outcomes. Germany has outlawed public displays of Nazi symbols; it doesn't have the problems of overt fascism that the US is currently struggling with. Perhaps it has merely replaced them with covert fascism, and perhaps this is merely correlation that doesn't imply causation. But I get the distinct impression that such is not actually the case; that legal disapproval of naziism in Germany re-enforces general disapproval. Plus, America's First Amendment doesn't uniformly guarantee freedom of speech. Hate speech, for example, and incitement to riot, are two categories that are generally not considered protected. I don't think flying a Nazi flag falls under either of those (though if one really squints hard, it could set a person up for much worse---the US negotiated a peace with Germany after World War II, but not with the Nazi party. One could make a claim that flying an enemy flag on American soil is tantamount to claiming that territory has been conquered, which opens the situation up to military intervention ;) ).

fixermark 8y ago

"Big company subverts local ownership of governance with massive amounts of money." I'm not sure if this is a feel-good success story or a case study in the flaws of capitalism in an increasingly-connected global society.

MariaHealth 8y ago

http://everydayhappy7.com/2017/08/07/know-can-detox-body-feet/ http://everydayhappy7.com/2017/08/07/know-can-detox-body-fee...

jtsnow 8y ago

Utah has passed legislation to protect lemonade stands and other childhood businesses. This has spurred weekend child entrepreneur markets. See https://fee.org/articles/lemonade-stands-legalized-in-utah/ https://fee.org/articles/lemonade-stands-legalized-in-utah/

duxup 8y ago

Is this "real"? The website for it seems kinda silly-ish. https://www.countrytimelegalade.com https://www.countrytimelegalade.com

dpeck 8y ago

take it for what it is folks, a good promotion.

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brandonmenc 8y ago

I'm almost 40 years old, grew up mostly in the burbs, and I never ran a lemonade stand, nor have I ever in my entire life seen kids running a lemonade stand. I'm betting this hasn't really been a "tradition" since the 1950s. Get a paper route - at least then you won't be giving anyone food poisoning.

circa 8y ago

Wow they really go after ANY small businesses, don't they!?

circa 8y ago

Also, I still love that Geico Ice T Lemonade commercial. One of the very very few commercials I enjoyed.