5 ms·

This whole article imagines that football is only played by men. Part of the reason the US does "worse than predicted" is that they're only looking at the Men'

by muglug 8y ago

This whole article imagines that football is only played by men. Part of the reason the US does "worse than predicted" is that they're only looking at the Men's game. US interest in the women's side (current World Cup champions) is arguably higher than in the men's.

evgen 8y ago
The only reason the US is interested in the women's game is because it is the only one in which they compete, the men's team is a joke. The reason the US women are competetive is really pretty simple: title IX. Funding equality means that collegiate women have a lot of scholarship slots and team funding available for women's teams so they have a good pre-professional program. A woman who wants to play football looks to get a place on a US collegiate team in the same way a man hopes to get picked up by a U-21 junior squad -- you get better by playing against the best and in a competitive environment.
- lordnacho 8y ago
  > the men's team is a joke They didn't qualify this time round, but they are by no means a joke. They tend to do ok until they come up against real contenders. And they have a fair few players in the top leagues, though not so many at the very highest Champions League level.
- lvoudour 8y ago
  the men's team is a joke. Not American, but I think you're too harsh. It's certainly not top tier but lately it has fared much better than teams with bigger history and love for the sport
- saghm 8y ago
  > The reason the US women are competetive is really pretty simple: title IX. Funding equality means that collegiate women have a lot of scholarship slots and team funding available for women's teams so they have a good pre-professional program. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here; wouldn't the funding being equal imply that both teams should perform well? Or is the argument that other countries don't spend money on women's teams?
  - ghaff 8y ago
    The argument is that 1.) Colleges spend most of the men's money on other men's sports; 2.) There's a lot of money that colleges need to spend on women's sports (if they're going to spend on men's--which they do) and a fair bit goes to soccer; and 3.) Yes, a lot of other countries don't spend much money on women's sports at that level.
- marchenko 8y ago
  I think interest in women's soccer in the US is much more organic than this comment implies. Soccer was touted to young girls (and their parents) in the 90s and 00s as a safe and inexpensive sport particularly well-suited to women; one of the few where women can play with pretty much the same rules and equipment as men (contra softball, basketball, football). And it had a bit of foreign mystique. So there is a fairly large spectator pool of women familiar with the sport from high school or club sports who follow the games, as do some of their siblings and parents. Men are more interested in the sports they played as kids. University-level athletes are such a small population that they don't really affect viewership much. I don't even think Title 9 accommodations have much to do with the female talent pool; as in most of the world, US soccer players get hooked early and start intensive training before University. They just happen to be predominantly female.
oh_sigh 8y ago
Why is it that the US women are consistently the best in the world, and US men are consistently middling? Do women in other countries just not play as much soccer as US women?
- megaman22 8y ago
  The best US male athletes play more lucrative and entertaining sports.
- lordnacho 8y ago
  One thing that probably makes a difference is there are a number of other sports drawing the young male athletes in the US. (American) Football, Baseball, Hockey, Basketball. If you look at the countries that tend to be good at football, the main sport everyone cares about is football. So why do the women do so well? It's well funded, and it's more of a contender among the sports for women.
- mmsimanga 8y ago
  I can speak for South Africa and Zimbabwe. Anecdotally based on everyone I grew with and went to university with. Most women give up sport the moment they leave high school. Only a handful of sports are professional. Women's soccer is not professional. As a result, both men and women tend to focus on studies and work. Logistically in your early career, it is also difficult to play sport. Getting lifts to and from practice when you don't have a car is a nightmare, buying kit and footing your own travel expenses to matches. The men continue to play sport on a social level right up to their 40s. I gather in the US women get soccer scholarships. It doesn't happen this side of the world.
- MisterBastahrd 8y ago
  Womens' soccer gets the US' best athletes. There are plenty of stadiums open on Friday nights with 10-30K fans watching boys play American football. You would be lucky get get 100 to watch soccer.
  - poulsbohemian 8y ago
    True at the local level, but go attend a PDX Timbers or Seattle Sounders match - eventually that excitement will trickle down.
johnrob 8y ago
Big question: where is the best talent getting sent to? http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14179705/antonio-brown-ty-hilton-unlikely-bond http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14179705/antonio-brown-ty... Below is the most relevant snippet, I don't think we see this as often for soccer as we do for other sports in the US: Gwen Cherry Park is tucked near the edge of Liberty City, a lower-income neighborhood in northwest Miami that gave rise to Chad Johnson and Santana Moss; Amari Cooper, Devonta Freeman, Lavonte David and Teddy Bridgewater are also from here. Every Saturday, the park fills with dozens of boys, their families setting up tents and frying conch before football games. Grandmothers walk the fields in T-shirts with their grandsons' faces printed on them; high school coaches scout from the sidelines; grown men bet on games between children.
poulsbohemian 8y ago
One of the challenges here in the US is competition with other sports. My son played soccer but as soon as he was old enough, he wanted to switch to American Football. I've seen the same thing with other kids, to baseball, to basketball, etc. Girls have relatively fewer sports options and can start soccer at a young age, so there's a good feeder program to advanced levels there. Perhaps it's the microcosm I live in, but I have hope for the future of US soccer. When I was a kid 30+ years ago, soccer was viewed with skepticism as a "foreign" game. Today soccer is thriving everywhere. In my community of > 30% Spanish speaking people, soccer is religion, and they are raising the profile and quality of the game from an early age. I see the US as simply in its infancy still in terms of players, coaching, and general interest in the game relative to the rest of the world, but, with things like MLS and the influx of predominantly Mexican immigrants throughout the West increasing the profile of the game on a localized level, we'll get there.
- ghaff 8y ago
  To play devil's advocate, I've been hearing sentiments along those general lines for a very long time. And, in fact, soccer/football has increased a whole lot in popularity among kids in particular. Hardly anyone played soccer, at least in my circles, when I was growing up. The wildcard is what happens with American football if parents and secondary schools start deciding it's not a sport kids should be playing. Rugby is the more natural alternative worldwide but it's got its own concussion issues (albeit not to the same degree) so it's hard to see American football phasing out in favor of rugby.
  - poulsbohemian 8y ago
    I don't see them as mutually exclusive - it doesn't have to be American football loses / futbol wins. I guess part of what I'm saying here is - look at where American football was in the 1960s. Some player still worked other jobs in the offseason. Formations were very simple. Max McGee famously partied the night before the first Super Bowl. Today, the NFL is big effing business to the point that it plays a role in our politics. The game itself is being played with sophistication way beyond just even a few decades ago. So, it is not hard to imagine a future for [soccer | futbol | football] where over time that same sophistication will grow for the game here in the US.

by muglug 8y ago

evgen 8y ago

The only reason the US is interested in the women's game is because it is the only one in which they compete, the men's team is a joke. The reason the US women are competetive is really pretty simple: title IX. Funding equality means that collegiate women have a lot of scholarship slots and team funding available for women's teams so they have a good pre-professional program. A woman who wants to play football looks to get a place on a US collegiate team in the same way a man hopes to get picked up by a U-21 junior squad -- you get better by playing against the best and in a competitive environment.

lordnacho 8y ago
> the men's team is a joke They didn't qualify this time round, but they are by no means a joke. They tend to do ok until they come up against real contenders. And they have a fair few players in the top leagues, though not so many at the very highest Champions League level.
lvoudour 8y ago
the men's team is a joke. Not American, but I think you're too harsh. It's certainly not top tier but lately it has fared much better than teams with bigger history and love for the sport
saghm 8y ago
> The reason the US women are competetive is really pretty simple: title IX. Funding equality means that collegiate women have a lot of scholarship slots and team funding available for women's teams so they have a good pre-professional program. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here; wouldn't the funding being equal imply that both teams should perform well? Or is the argument that other countries don't spend money on women's teams?
- ghaff 8y ago
  The argument is that 1.) Colleges spend most of the men's money on other men's sports; 2.) There's a lot of money that colleges need to spend on women's sports (if they're going to spend on men's--which they do) and a fair bit goes to soccer; and 3.) Yes, a lot of other countries don't spend much money on women's sports at that level.
marchenko 8y ago
I think interest in women's soccer in the US is much more organic than this comment implies. Soccer was touted to young girls (and their parents) in the 90s and 00s as a safe and inexpensive sport particularly well-suited to women; one of the few where women can play with pretty much the same rules and equipment as men (contra softball, basketball, football). And it had a bit of foreign mystique. So there is a fairly large spectator pool of women familiar with the sport from high school or club sports who follow the games, as do some of their siblings and parents. Men are more interested in the sports they played as kids. University-level athletes are such a small population that they don't really affect viewership much. I don't even think Title 9 accommodations have much to do with the female talent pool; as in most of the world, US soccer players get hooked early and start intensive training before University. They just happen to be predominantly female.

oh_sigh 8y ago

Why is it that the US women are consistently the best in the world, and US men are consistently middling? Do women in other countries just not play as much soccer as US women?

megaman22 8y ago
The best US male athletes play more lucrative and entertaining sports.
lordnacho 8y ago
One thing that probably makes a difference is there are a number of other sports drawing the young male athletes in the US. (American) Football, Baseball, Hockey, Basketball. If you look at the countries that tend to be good at football, the main sport everyone cares about is football. So why do the women do so well? It's well funded, and it's more of a contender among the sports for women.
mmsimanga 8y ago
I can speak for South Africa and Zimbabwe. Anecdotally based on everyone I grew with and went to university with. Most women give up sport the moment they leave high school. Only a handful of sports are professional. Women's soccer is not professional. As a result, both men and women tend to focus on studies and work. Logistically in your early career, it is also difficult to play sport. Getting lifts to and from practice when you don't have a car is a nightmare, buying kit and footing your own travel expenses to matches. The men continue to play sport on a social level right up to their 40s. I gather in the US women get soccer scholarships. It doesn't happen this side of the world.
MisterBastahrd 8y ago
Womens' soccer gets the US' best athletes. There are plenty of stadiums open on Friday nights with 10-30K fans watching boys play American football. You would be lucky get get 100 to watch soccer.
- poulsbohemian 8y ago
  True at the local level, but go attend a PDX Timbers or Seattle Sounders match - eventually that excitement will trickle down.

johnrob 8y ago

Big question: where is the best talent getting sent to? http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14179705/antonio-brown-ty-hilton-unlikely-bond http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14179705/antonio-brown-ty... Below is the most relevant snippet, I don't think we see this as often for soccer as we do for other sports in the US: Gwen Cherry Park is tucked near the edge of Liberty City, a lower-income neighborhood in northwest Miami that gave rise to Chad Johnson and Santana Moss; Amari Cooper, Devonta Freeman, Lavonte David and Teddy Bridgewater are also from here. Every Saturday, the park fills with dozens of boys, their families setting up tents and frying conch before football games. Grandmothers walk the fields in T-shirts with their grandsons' faces printed on them; high school coaches scout from the sidelines; grown men bet on games between children.

poulsbohemian 8y ago

One of the challenges here in the US is competition with other sports. My son played soccer but as soon as he was old enough, he wanted to switch to American Football. I've seen the same thing with other kids, to baseball, to basketball, etc. Girls have relatively fewer sports options and can start soccer at a young age, so there's a good feeder program to advanced levels there. Perhaps it's the microcosm I live in, but I have hope for the future of US soccer. When I was a kid 30+ years ago, soccer was viewed with skepticism as a "foreign" game. Today soccer is thriving everywhere. In my community of > 30% Spanish speaking people, soccer is religion, and they are raising the profile and quality of the game from an early age. I see the US as simply in its infancy still in terms of players, coaching, and general interest in the game relative to the rest of the world, but, with things like MLS and the influx of predominantly Mexican immigrants throughout the West increasing the profile of the game on a localized level, we'll get there.

ghaff 8y ago
To play devil's advocate, I've been hearing sentiments along those general lines for a very long time. And, in fact, soccer/football has increased a whole lot in popularity among kids in particular. Hardly anyone played soccer, at least in my circles, when I was growing up. The wildcard is what happens with American football if parents and secondary schools start deciding it's not a sport kids should be playing. Rugby is the more natural alternative worldwide but it's got its own concussion issues (albeit not to the same degree) so it's hard to see American football phasing out in favor of rugby.
- poulsbohemian 8y ago
  I don't see them as mutually exclusive - it doesn't have to be American football loses / futbol wins. I guess part of what I'm saying here is - look at where American football was in the 1960s. Some player still worked other jobs in the offseason. Formations were very simple. Max McGee famously partied the night before the first Super Bowl. Today, the NFL is big effing business to the point that it plays a role in our politics. The game itself is being played with sophistication way beyond just even a few decades ago. So, it is not hard to imagine a future for [soccer | futbol | football] where over time that same sophistication will grow for the game here in the US.