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The Decline of the MacBook Pro

• sebringj 8y ago
  The keyboard is really the main problem as the laptop performs very well otherwise. You have to turn off force feedback etc. I don't recommend taking your laptop to the beach but i kind of tend to and the butterfly keyboard will utterly fail if you get a single grain of sand near it as its too damn flat. Otherwise, I like the dynamic bar and trackpad and the thing just works without heating up.
  • handbanana 8y ago
    I don't agree the keyboard is the only issue. But it is the one thing that, if they fixed it, could sway me to buy one. And I know many others feel similarly
    • eslaught 8y ago
      I've had the new MBP for about 18 months, and the keyboard is the only element that continues to consistently trip me up. Most of the time, it's fine, but every once in a while I get that out-of-body sort of feeling that something is off. I have never had that experience with any other keyboard, except possibly the Kinesis, which is a very different layout. Otherwise I have to agree with the GP. Most of the complaints about this computer are not valid. E.g. dongles: I upgraded from the late 2011 MBP, which was old enough to have a DVD drive, and I always carried around dongles for video connection. Now it's a different set, but basically the same situation.
    • bauerd 8y ago
      Yes! As it stands right now, my current MBP will be my last one as I'm by now willing to migrate back to Linux/FreeBSD after quite some years. If they throw out the shitty touch bar thing from the Pro lineup and give the next model a proper keyboard instead, I could see myself giving this a second thought …
  • jaxondu 8y ago
    My guess is the upcoming MacBook Pro update this year will solve the keyboard problem. There is a reason how Apple name their new macOS. They want you to use the new MacBook Pro 2018 in Mojave dessert to showcase that the problem is gone.
    • sebringj 8y ago
      ha ha this keyboard was a conspiracy to upgrade. I'm kidding kind of but after using it it feels like they were just warming me up by letting me down.
      • sebringj 8y ago
        This is exactly my point. The comment here reflects a more emotional experience that is too personal as to alienate the mainstream thus causing a negative perception. If it were worded as "Apple may have unintentionally created a motivator to upgrade based on their current keyboard design." this would be received positively yet the underlying meaning remains.
  • r00fus 8y ago
    It's not just the keyboard. The big-ass trackpad often mis-clicks. It gets worse with BTT, but the force-touch combined with the unavoidable size has been in my experience, a step back. I've had to stop working using my laptop on my lap (yes I use a lap-pad/cooler) which I had found incredibly productive in previous years with former MBPs.
    • _Tev 8y ago
      When working on laptop in my lap I found trackpoint (I own ThinkPads) incredibly powerful, as I never need to put my hands away from keyboard. Also once you get used to track point you will always look down on clunky workflow with touch pads - moving hands from/to keyboard all the time is worth it only with real mouse.
  • jgh 8y ago
    Yeah I'm with you there. I've had a 2017 15" MBP for about 6 months now and the keyboard is acting up a bit. I guess I must have something under the left Command key because it's not really pressing the same way as the other keys. The 'H' key sometimes decides it doesnt feel like working or feels like working too hard and I end up with "hh". Other than that it's a great system. The performance I'm pretty happy with, even for gaming.
  • dionian 8y ago
    I love the new keyboard and the super low travel. It definitely took a lot of getting used to.
    • superplussed 8y ago
      I love the new keyboard as well. Hate the fact that like 5 of my keys have a strange combination of sticking and being not properly affixed (ie they just fly off the keyboard at random times). It's pretty crazy that to get your keyboard fixed you have to turn it into an Apple affiliated store (Apple Store won't take them in Berlin), and suffer through a 10 day wait. For fixing... a... few... keys.
    • serpix 8y ago
      until the keys stop working. It really breaks your flow when once in a while a shift or ctrl keypress does nothing. This keyboard is a failure and it is way too unreliable for daily work with lots of typing.
  • sebringj 8y ago
    As I wrote the main comment here, I just performed an experiment in real time...the language you use in a comment has to be carefully worded to not convey too strong of an opinion excluding others or contain too much colorful language reflecting one's personality that may stray too far from the mainstream relatability. This is a perfect case to apply machine learning as I could see in real time votes responding up or down solely based on the emotional tone rather than the underlying meaning.
  • ravitation 8y ago
    I love the keyboard. The Touch Bar is interesting sometimes, but the virtual Escape key is a deal breaker.
  • sebringj 8y ago
    this morning my space bar requires two thumbs to work, seemingly random. show stopper.
• woah 8y ago
  Unfortunately Mac is still miles ahead of Linux on usability. I recently got an XPS 13 and put Ubuntu on it, and immediately ran into many small issues such as: - Touchpad had a very low resolution. This had to be fixed by using a different display server. - Touchpad had nonexistent palm rejection. I fixed this by turning off tap to click which doesn’t actually fix the problem but stops it from causing an issue when typing. - Touchpad generally had a very old fashioned layout with large zones for the right click button and scroll bar. - All of these touchpad fixes had to be done with some strangely formatted text files. - Key remapping also required diving into a whole set of text files and searching around for incomplete documentation wikis on it. - Gestures do not work without switching back to the display server with the very low resolution touchpad. - The windowing and multi desktop system is generally not as well thought out as Mac. - Bluetooth just doesn’t work well. I need to “forget” and then reconnect to a device to join it again. Feels very buggy. There are also a lot of other things I’m forgetting right now. Currently Linux does not offer a top tier desktop experience, and it’s been 90% of the way there for like 15 years, so I doubt it’s ever going to get better until the dynamics of the ecosystem change. My guess is that Linux developers don’t want to do boring stuff like fixing obscure bugs for certain peripherals, and they don’t want to listen to designers to create a polished unified experience. I briefly used windows while installing Ubuntu and it was generally much smoother. If windows can get the Linux subsystem stuff working 100% my guess is that it will start to gain momentum as a developer OS.
  • jamesb93 8y ago
    Yep. My partner has had Windows laptops where the hardware is just junk too. I had my previous Macbook Pro for 7 years and just upgraded the internals. The Touch Pad is still today unmatched on that thing (except by my new macbook pro) and the hardware was always top notch in terms of its integration with the OS. In my niche field of audio programming Mac is basically required as most commerical software is released to be used by live musicians who also use Mac. Can you guess why? Superior audio drivers with minimal latency. To get something comparable on windows you have to use an external audio interface which is fine, but on windows is generally more buggy. Mac definitely still has the strangehold for audio on 'just works'.
  • orangecat 8y ago
• akhilcacharya 8y ago
  It's become apparent that the "pro" moniker is just a buzzword to Apple and not something that actually indicates anything about the machine. The 2015 MBPr still runs circles around the new models in usability outside of display quality, which is only marginally worse.
  • HillaryBriss 8y ago
    i'm sure there is a big measure of truth to what you're saying, but, OTOH, the iMac Pro and Mac Pro have Xeon chips and ECC memory. so there is at least that HW difference. also there are some recent concerns out there about the quality of the service and support available to owners of Apple "pro" products. e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG_NRcy5mxU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG_NRcy5mxU
• azinman2 8y ago
  The idea that Apple software is bloatwate because he’s fully bought into the Google ecosystem is laughable. It’s fine if you don’t want in on Apple’s rich ecosystem, but that’s very different from “bloatware.”
  • checker659 8y ago
    He's probably alluding to the fact that these apps are installed by default (which needn't be the case because MAS).
  • nvr219 8y ago
    I mean if OP wants an OS without "bloatware" according to his definition, Arch is really the best option (which was his conclusion).
    • oaeurctn5sy 8y ago
      Not only that, but unlike the crapware installed on Windows/Android, you can simply trash those apps and they take up no space on your system. 99% of users probably find the majority of those apps really helpful.
  • bbrik 8y ago
    I had the same thought. I really like Numbers, I stoped using Evernote because it was bloated (I am using the simpler stock mac notes). I use Calendar, Reminders, Preview and Safari. Quick look is not an app, but is a great mac feature that you don't find elsewhere. I think that the stock apple software is really good. It is simple without lacking usability. It is something that you can really use and, if you need something better or more customizable, you can get third party apps. I feel like bloatware is something that is very bad and not usable.
    • camel_Snake 8y ago
      The fact I can't uninstall certain non-critical applications like iTunes certainly makes it feel like bloatware.
• goldmouth 8y ago
  Counterpoint. I've had three thinkpads over the past 5 years for work. For two years I used Linux and am currently using windows 10. Just bought my first Mac Pro in December. It is miles ahead in design and quality. The keyboard is brilliant and while I miss the trackpad dot the Apple mouse is the greatest I've ever used. The OS is still more intuitive and easier to modify.
  • deleted 8y ago
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• nvr219 8y ago
  Small correction, Messages on MacOS can send and receive SMS [edit: you need iPhone for this, and based on OP's heavy use of Google I assume they're using Android so this wouldn't be an option]. But in general I agree and also don't use most of the "out of the box" MacOS apps. I'm currently on a Macbook Air that's almost seven years old and honestly all I want is the exact same thing with a high res display.
  • trimbo 8y ago
    > Messages on MacOS can send and receive SMS Assuming you have an iPhone though, right? I am sitting in front of a Mac and don't see any option for this (I use Android).
    • nvr219 8y ago
      Yes correct, requires MacOS 10.10+ and iOS 8+ forgot about that piece
• mustaflex 8y ago
  I was going to buy my first macbook pro but the keyboard is holding me back. the other "premium" laptops are overpriced for what they offer.
• zer00eyz 8y ago
  I was going through this article with the mental agree/disagree checklist. These would be general apple issues I get it. You want your HDMI port back and I can count the number of times on one hand that I used it on my last MacBook, and I could have gone without in every one of those cases. The reality is that trimming down the system to ports "used daily" by more than %50 of users makes sense to a fair degree - it isn't like you CANT have your hdmi interface but your going to have to carry a dongle. The apple apps, I get that too.... I use some of them and not others and the ones I don't use feel like bloat... Then I get to the end, and suddenly it felt like the rest of the article was "fluff" for the author to get their Docker complaint in. Docker is a self inflicted wound, it has NOTHING to do with apple... How many computer users are there vs docker users (directly)?
  • mcintyre1994 8y ago
    How many users use a usb-c port directly daily? I don’t have anything that can plug into one except a dongle, I don’t even know what I could buy that would make use of it - probably a faster external hard drive would? But I don’t know of anyone who makes a monitor that plugs straight into usb-c, all the other usual usb accessories are still usb2. Do new phones have usb-c plugs like the MacBook charger, I guess they probably do. So if 50% of users have a new phone and charge it with their macbook daily then you're right, otherwise I'm not so sure. What were you thinking of as the main uses of a usb-c port for >50% of users out of interest?
• femto113 8y ago
  I was just forced to "upgrade" from a 2013 era MacBook Pro Retina 13" to the latest non-touchbar MacBook Pro, and so far I'm not finding any aspect of this to be an improvement. The new keyboard somehow manages to be louder and less comfortable to type on, and the trackpad has an audible "sproing-fft" sound every time I click it. The lack of ports is tolerable at the moment only because my main workspace uses a single thundebolt monitor (required only a $43 dongle) that acts as a hub I can connect my keyboard and mouse too, but woe betide me if I try to take this thing into a conference room to hook up to a projector (or any of the power supplies left lying around in such places). Its especially frustrating since Apple has two other Mac lines that they can use to push the USB-C everywhere concept, I really wish they'd kept the Pro as the "buy this if you need it to just work everywhere" line.
  • crysin 8y ago
    You should be able to adjust the feedback of the trackpad in the settings. The new trackpads are solid state and emulate the click feeling.
• gethoht 8y ago
  We use mac's exclusively at my work. I just started this job two months ago and my mbp stopped charging because of a usb issue. It's off at the depot getting it's logic board replaced while I type this on a loaner from 2015. Not very impressed with mac's at this point and I feel that they've lost quality control.
• aviv 8y ago
  To me the MacBook Pro died when they killed the 17" screen.
  • onetokeoverthe 8y ago
    Matte screen. Clean installs of 10.6.8 on external drives at the A store. Never surrender. And maybe one day they'll make a new one.
  • patrickmay 8y ago
    Hear, hear. I would happily trade an extra pound of weight for a 17-inch screen and 32 GB of RAM.
• Philipp__ 8y ago
  You really start appreciating macOS when you go and install Linux on laptop and use it for a month. I had a same issue, I was in Apple camp for 10 years (as of this year). And I was like things suck now, Snow Leopard days yada yada yada... And then I installed Arch. Oh god... I mean, the worst thing is I can use Linux only as pure text/terminal UI. Although Gnome looks more polished than ever, whole UI/UX thing on Linux just can't be compared to macOS and Cocoa. What I didn't like with OPs post is that Apple isn't making machine specifically for you, nor for developers. Why their machines had so much success since Jobs return was that they were making machines that were equally loved by music/video/content creators, developers, mothers/fathers/grandparents, students etc etc... If you aren't satisfied with your dev. environment go spin up a VM, rent a server or just get other machine that will fulfill your needs. Where this post gets right is keyboards. Reliability has been number one aspect that Apple created as part of their brand's identity. I won't buy new machine until they do something about those crappy keyboards. And I would like to see them move from Intel. I would like to see how Apple do their own in-house development on CPU, or go with AMD.
  • BlackjackCF 8y ago
    Yup, agreed here. I shared the sentiments that this post had. Then I got a XPS 15" and booted ElementaryOS on it and trying to deal with the resolution issues from the 4K display was just a huge headache. Also, say what you will about the MBP, even though I paid $2k for my XPS, it still wasn't nearly as nice as the MBP's touchpad, etc. I would definitely still pay a premium for that MBP hardware.
    • stcredzero 8y ago
      > booted ElementaryOS on it and trying to deal with the resolution issues from the 4K display was just a huge headache Jeez. The sentence, "I booted distro-X on it and trying to deal with the resolution issues from was just a huge headache," is still true in 2018. People were saying things like this about Linux 15 years ago!
      • Symbiote 8y ago
• Eric_WVGG 8y ago
  I don't get the complaints over stuff like HDMI and SD slots getting dropped. When they're left out, people who need them have to carry around adapters. When they're included, people who _don't_ need them have to carry them around (in the form of less battery and a bigger laptop). Doesn’t it make sense to put the “burden” on folks who need this stuff? I don't want your HDMI. I don't want your SD slot. I don't even want your USB-A or audio-out. Why should my laptop be burdened with all this crap just because other people can’t manage dongles or a port replicator?
  • deleted 8y ago
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  • chapium 8y ago
    For connectivity, device : cable : client is a simple solution. Adding a dongle to the mix is something else you might not have with you. Its something else that can break. It adds to desktop clutter. Honestly i can live without an sd card slot, but that was a nice differentiator for the laptop market. Its also arguably better than usb drives. Just tuck a disk in when you need it and dont worry about sticks hanging off the side of your laptop catching on things. Also many usb dongles are too wide, crowding other ports. Dongles just dont simplify things and are counter to the older product design focused on simplicity and requiring users to manage less of their computing. I use both windows and mac. Simplicity is on the decline in mac, but when you see the contrast in complexity your focus is better for a lot of tasks. The dark side of this is over simplicity which gets in the way of more detailed tasks. No downvotes, I enjoy different perspectives.
  • tannhaeuser 8y ago
    Options are what a "Pro" line differentiates from a "base" or "premium" line: that there are models with and without SD card slot (most mid-tier Android phones have SDXC btw), and models with and without USB ports (higher-end Android have basically more ports than a MacBook "Pro" at this point). Same with display and RAM choices, and especially the touch bar. But Apple only produces shiny thin and thinner notebooks; nothing "Pro" about them.
    • 8y ago
• caconym_ 8y ago
  I agree with the Touch Bar criticism and I think the keyboard is not great in that it seems impossible to repair--it must always be replaced, apparently at great expense. Apart from that, this seems like a lot of opinion. My personal machine is a 12" MacBook and I've used it extensively for "real work", everything from professional software development to writing stories and novels (just a hobby, but it makes heavy use of the keyboard). It is my favorite computer out of all that I've owned, but it seems to "suffer" from many of the criticized aspects of the Pro, to a greater degree in many cases. I guess maybe it's more reasonable to criticise the "Pro" model on the basis of these complaints, but there are still many professional users for whom it's well suited. I know I'd be a huge fan of my work machine, a 13", if not for the Touch Bar.
• skadamat 8y ago
  I had a RMBP 15 2017 version and recently switched to Arch Linux on Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Carbon 6th Gen. I have nothing but good things to say about the experience. I do miss some of the multi-touch gesture stuff, but I've gotten used to the new workflow. I love how customizable Arch Linux is and how great the keyboard feels. Plus, having physical trackpad buttons has been really really nice.
• S_A_P 8y ago
  I can relate to most of these points. However, he lost me with the bloatware statement. It came off to me as 'Apple didnt design MACOS for my 1 very specific development use case so its bloated and useless'. Completely disagree with this. None of these apps are tied to the OS in a similar way IE was linked to Windows, and just because you like Google apps to handle your utilities doesnt mean everyone else will. Some people do want iMovie, Photos or the productivity apps and dont want to share all of their personal data with google to use their suite. Ive never looked at an unused included utility by apple or microsoft and thought this is BLOATWARE!!! The new macbook pro has plenty of flaws that you can avoid the above point and still make a compelling case. Ive skipped upgrading my 2014 model until I see the next version. I tried a buddy of mine's MBP and the trackpad is pretty bad and in the way of my hands.
  • dguo 8y ago
    Author here. In retrospect, using the word "bloatware" was unnecessary, given the connotations of the word. I totally get that it's a very personal situation and that most Mac owners probably use a fair amount of Mac software. I only included that section because my shift from Mac software to alternatives was so gradual that I didn't really realize how complete it was until I started writing this blog post. At which point I wanted to list them out point by point for my own self-reflection.
• moogleii 8y ago
  Hmm kind of a strange piece that's borderline misleading. It starts off with interesting points that are generally fixed usability issues (there's only one keyboard, only one trackpad, etc), but the "bloatware" section seems strangely out of place. It's basically "I personally don't use these applications" ...and therefore that supports why the MBP is in decline? That's great that he uses Firefox but... who cares? I personally have given it up for Safari and Chrome. Ditto with the rest of the apps; I still use about half of those integrated apps (yet here, too, who cares?).
  • liquidify 8y ago
    I disagree. I know a lot of hardcore mac fans, and only a few of them use the built in mac software, and when they do, they don't use many. Every point the author made about hardware was 100% spot on though, and he made a lot more points than just about the keyboard and trackpad. Virtually every change that mac has done to the hardware has made it worse, with the exception of efficiency, and maybe a slight improvement in power. But the efficiency and power improvements are vastly outweighed by the hardware negatives. And the author is right about the software. None of the software changes they have made over the last 3 years have made anything better. It just keeps getting bigger.
  • haikuginger 8y ago
    Plus, many of the integrated apps actually do support the platforms he's using - for example, Google syncing with the macOS Contacts, Calendar, and Reminders applications. Additionally, the macOS Messages app is way more capable than most people realize. Of course it supports iMessage, but it also supports sending native SMSs when used with a paired iPhone, either via relay or through WiFi calling with a supported carrier. It also has Hangouts chat support AFAICT, and support for any other (standardized, decentralized) XMPP/Jabber server. And the majority of the other applications come preinstalled, but can just be deleted.
  • dguo 8y ago
    I should have elaborated on that section. The fact that I use almost none of the native software is a negative for me personally because the native software used to be a reason for me to pay the premium price for an Apple laptop. I used to use iTunes, Safari, etc. But now that I don't, the inclusion of that software in the cost of the laptop is largely a waste to me. It's definitely a very personal opinion though, hence my disclaimer at the beginning about my complaints being hard to generalize.
• TuringNYC 8y ago
  After my decade-long love affair with the MBP, i finally called it quits after the last "upgrade" - Being stuck at 16GB RAM seriously limited VMs, etc - Not having a CUDA-compliant GPU forced me to use AWS and not run minor dev work locally - The keyboard... I got a 64GB RAM ThinkPad P51 w/ an NVIDIA GPU. Miss the feel and art, but otherwise haven't looked back because i'm so productive at work. For me, peak-mac was the 2014 MBP with NVIDIA GPU and traditional keyboard.
• patrickg_zill 8y ago
  If Tiger/Leopard had real up to date web browsers, you could get what you needed from a PowerBook G4. I am typing this on a Tiger / PBG4 12" - but HN is one of the few sites that the old browser can load and work with perfectly... BTW the keys work great and are nearly silent and have good travel.
  • Rebelgecko 8y ago
    There's a fork of Firefox for 10.4 that worked pretty well last time I needed to use it (although slow on JS heavy sites)
    • patrickg_zill 8y ago
      Yes, it is what I am using. It is called TenFourFox http://www.floodgap.com/software/tenfourfox/ http://www.floodgap.com/software/tenfourfox/ . New functionality allows you to create "FoxBoxes" which are like separate containers for a single site; this allows you to both keep some sites separate, and, ensure that when you close the site, all the RAM is reclaimed immediately by the OS.
  • linguae 8y ago
    Honestly, I wish someone would create a mod for the PowerBook G4 (either the Titanium or Aluminum versions) that is similar to the ThinkPad X62 project; modern components in a ThinkPad X61 chassis. I love this generation of Apple laptops, and it would be nice to use one of these with modern components.
• wufufufu 8y ago
  Since it wasn't mentioned in the article or in the comments, max 16GB of memory has been the main complaint among our engineers. In the article, some of the gripes about macOS software is just filler. Safari runs very well on macOS and mac hardware. I know people who prefer the Mail client, Notes, and Reminders over alternatives. FaceTime is way better than Google Hangouts and Skype.
• deleted 8y ago
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• notadoc 8y ago
  Apple basically killed the "Pro" and turned it into a consumer-level concept laptop that is a downgrade in nearly every possible way that matters to actual pro users. - The keyboard is horrible and unreliable. A piece of dust can render it inoperable and require an $800 repair? Give me a break. - The Touch Bar is inconvenient, annoying, and ergonomically terrible. It is a problem looking for a solution but instead causes more problems. - The lack of a hardware Escape key and function row is inconvenient, annoying, and hostile to pro users. I use my Escape key and FN keys multiple dozens of times per day. - Losing MagSafe is a downgrade with no conceivable benefit - USB-C is inconvenient and inconsistent - Dongles required for everything possible is annoying and inconvenient - 16GB RAM is comical in 2018 for a "pro" machine If you want a good Mac laptop at the moment, you have to buy 3-6 year old hardware, usually refurbished or used on eBay/craigslist. Think about that for a minute. This sums it up well: > "Apple has made many great laptops, but the 15-inch Retina MacBook Pro (2012–2015) is the epitome of usefulness, elegance, practicality, and power for an overall package that still hasn’t been (and may never be) surpassed." https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-ever https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-ever My sincere hope is they actually fix the keyboard (and add the Escape and FN keys back), remove the Touch Bar, give it 32GB of RAM, and re-introduce MagSafe. Getting ports back is almost certainly too much to ask for, I don't think there has ever been a time where Apple removed ports and then brought them back again.
  • orf 8y ago
    Counterpoint: I've never run out of RAM or been worried by the limit. USB-C is fast, can charge my laptop using my phone. Touch bar is OK, useful in some situations but not really missing much compared to function keys. Build quality is second to none.
    • notadoc 8y ago
      I always hear these claims and I think they are wonderful, reminds me of the infamous "640kb is enough for anyone" quote. Meanwhile I've got a text editor, terminal, and web browser open and it's consumed all 16gb and is requiring 9gb swap already.
• docmars 8y ago
  I'm really upset with how Apple's been treating the MBP considering my entire livelihood depends on using macOS to get work done. Sure, I could switch to another platform, but it wouldn't be the same. I'd be less efficient and I would have access to a lot of the tools I love and use. To be limited to their crappy hardware they've been releasing lately is a shame. I'm ready for an upgrade from my 2013 Macbook Air, but none of Apple's notebooks are suitable upgrades—I refuse to buy any until they either 1) fix the keyboard and get rid of the dumb Touchbar on the MBP, or 2) allow me to buy a Macbook Air with 16GB of memory.
• gregoriol 8y ago
  The previous generation, Retina with MagSafe, without the new keyboard, the bigger trackpad, or the touch bar was the best MacBook Pro EVER (so far), I sincerly hope they will produce something as good in the future, but I'm starting to loose hope here...
• sbr464 8y ago
  I still prefer MacOS, but I have a 5th gen X1 Carbon, dual booting win 10 and elementary OS (linux). A funny thing happened at a recent hotel stay. The audio wasn’t working while connected via hdmi to the tv, was booted into win10. Jumped over to Linux, using chrome, worked perfectly. I couldn’t believe Linux was easier to use than windows. Was definitely a Tom Hanks, I have made fire moment.
• frostyj 8y ago
  So basically the author is committed into Google ecosystem, and complaining Macbook's lack of Google ecosystem support? And don't do any Docker related work on your laptop, docker machine is your best friend here
  • dguo 8y ago
    Author here. Using the Google ecosystem on a MacBook is fine for me since all Google software has web versions. I regularly use both macOS and Linux. I also have an Android phone and an iPad. So cross-platform compatibility is particularly important to me (though I realize that's a very personal situation).
• hmd_imputer 8y ago
  My MacBook has the screengate issue. I had it replaced two times! After a while, the antireflective coating starts peeling off. When I took it to the service again, Apple's response was hilarious: "We cannot keep changing your screen infinite amount of times". Every time I had the screen changed, I was told that the new screen is different and it won't have the same problem. Unfortunately, it did have the exact same problem. Even much cheaper models do not have such a terrible issue. Apple, as a company with zero tolerance to poor quality, is long gone.
• hs86 8y ago
  Is here any alternative that can keep up with Apple's font rendering? This might be highly subjective but for me the same font on a Mac looks much more pleasant than on Windows or Ubuntu. It is tempting to understate this as a minor detail but for me text is one of the most important parts of the user interface and I can't understand how the other platforms could neglect their font rendering this much.
  • sbr464 8y ago
    I agree completely. Even on a HiDPI screen, I couldn’t believe how bad Avenir and other great fonts looked in a Windows and Linux browser. Although, the Retina display may be spoiling me, I checked some work on an older 27” iMac, non retina, and it looked pretty bad also.
    • hs86 8y ago
      My reference is a non-Retina MacBook Air and external displays that are around 100 DPI - I still live in a non-Retina world and the difference is still glaring.
      • tonyedgecombe 8y ago
        I think it's more noticeable on non-Retina, I guess there is more anti-aliasing going on.
  • hachre 8y ago
    Have you tried out what it looks like on Windows 10 with a high resolution display properly set to zooming like 200%? I think that Windows has made a lot of progress on this in the last few years.
  • jwalton 8y ago
    That's an interesting comment. I bought my first MBP in mid-2012 (and, it's my current mac, although I just dropped it and cracked the LCD screen, so this discussion is suddenly very relevant to me) and I found, especially when outputting to a 1080p monitor, that I hated the way text looked on the Mac. I think this was one of my biggest complaints. Either it's gotten better over the years, or I've gotten used to it, because I don't notice it anymore.
• drdaeman 8y ago
  > I would rather use keyboard shortcuts than look down at the touch bar. I actually happen to like the fact that I don't have to remember the non-essential shortcuts anymore. That, and volume & brightness sliders. Still, it's extremely immature and far from being useful. Most importantly, a few applications actually support it in any meaningful manner. Most of time, my touchbar is empty, or shows the function (F) keys. Even when app provides some controls, they're usually for from being actually useful, leaving a feeling that they were added in a haste, just to fill "we support touchbar now" tick, without giving it much thought. Rarely I want the buttons app provides by default, and rarely the buttons I want to see are available. And it really lacks any tactile feedback. The hacks that use trackpad magnets are not working for me - in a sense I don't like how it feels, at all. If it'd work like a trackpad with display - it'd be perfect. Slide fingers across to "feel" the button, then push a little harder to actually "press" it.
• shiado 8y ago
  The benefit of everybody hating the new macbooks is that people are going to be writing stuff on the old ones for a while, which will make them respect CPU resources more and performance of web apps will go up. There are a lot of sites where you can instantly tell the frontend developers all used top of the line macbooks and never even bothered to check CPU usage or throttle network performance to see how slow their app is when served in production to people without business tier connection speeds.
  • JustSomeNobody 8y ago
    > , which will make them respect CPU resources more and performance of web apps will go up. I disagree. I think the current crop of developers cares more about how quick they can get a basic app coded up than how quick it runs. And they definitely don't care about battery, network, etc. because they're mostly using very fast networks and keep their machines plugged in.
    • gaurgo 8y ago
      I find myself in this camp. I enjoy optimizing, but I need to see positive feedback.
• mnm1 8y ago
  The new keyboard alone is enough to turn me off this machine forever. Apple went from building tanks to a vehicles made out of feathers. My 2013 mbpro has been pinched, hit, dropped, and abused but has had no problems. On the new ones you can't even type softly without it breaking. Half the reason to own a mac is gone right there. The trackpad itself too is another reason. The previous trackpad was perfect. Now it's so big it requires palm detection software that doesn't work well at all. Whoever designed this machine should be ashamed of himself. This design isn't worthy of a high school drop out, let alone Apple's designers who I assume make millions. I guess not even millions can buy common sense and Apple and the rest of the world are finding that out. If I was tim cook I'd fire the MacBook leadership asap and get competent people on board... Except I think the incompetence clearly starts with cook himself.
• dbg31415 8y ago
  Totally agree, especially about bloatware. I went to reinstall a machine and realized it took me 2x as long to turn off the Apple stuff I didn't want to use, as it did to install the OS. I don't want 80% of the software that comes with a Mac. * Fixing the MacBook Pro | Hacker News || https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15773810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15773810 I wrote (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15773810#15773984 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15773810#15773984): * Keys break. A lot. Probably 1/4th of my friends with this machine have broken keys. Never happened on the old MBPs. (As I type this I'm using a mechanical Razer keyboard plugged into a dongle plugged into a 2016 MBP with a broken G key.) * Trackpad is too big. What was the point, honestly? Nobody said, "My use case is I want a trackpad that's impossible not to bump when I type." * MagSafe was great, bring it back. Every Apple product from now until the end of time should use a MagSafe power connector. * TouchBar sucks. End of story. I miss the ESC key. I've literally never been like, "Oh gosh, I'm glad I have a TouchBar to change the volume... what a great feature!" It' just inflates production cost without adding value. * Machines lack power... CPU and RAM. Old MBPs felt like they were amazing machines that would stand up over time. 16 GB RAM has been the cap for how many years now? Like a decade? Yeah... * USB-C... other than dongles, I don't know a single accessory that uses a USB-C. Everything is Thunderbolt or USB-3. So... yeah let's have at least one USB-3 plug. I've got a USB and HDMI adapter that I use every day. Anyway nothing is built using a USB-C... I get pushing for new tech, but it seems more just like a way to add $250 in dongle sales to every new laptop sold. * They are more expensive than the old ones. =( * Office, Steam, other things... still don't run as well on Mac as they do on PC. If Apple isn't for Gamers, it has to be for people who do work? Or... look, who are the "Pro" lines for these days? ==================================== What I do want on my Mac? I just dumped my "New" MBP and went back to my 2013 model. The 2013 model is damn near perfect. Wish it had a bit more power, but it's still better than carrying dongles and losing MagSafe. I want actual improvements in the OS. It's so obnoxious that MacOS still STILL doesn't have window docking. * Magnet – Window manager for Mac || http://magnet.crowdcafe.com/ http://magnet.crowdcafe.com/
• tkyjonathan 8y ago
  They will pry my MacBook pro out of my cold dead hands!
• gressquel 8y ago
  Karma, should never have removed HDMI ports.
• diogenescynic 8y ago
  All Apple products seem to have stagnated for the last 3-4 years. iPhones have barely noticeably changed since iPhone 6, but you especially notice it with the Macbooks and iMacs--the specs have barely increased for several years but they cost the same. What's going on? Is Moore's law dead?
• mortenjorck 8y ago
  Most of what the author mentions, like the "bloatware" (that happens to be one of the best OEM pack-in values in the history of personal computing) is personal preference. There absolutely is a problem with the direction of Apple's pro laptops, though, and that is simply that they've lost the pragmatism of the Macbook Pro line: A balance of current and future ports is pragmatic. Going from exclusively USB-A to exclusively USB-C is not. Making the occasional experience of replacing the battery harder in exchange for a thinner and lighter device is pragmatic. Making the everyday experience of typing on the keyboard less reliable for a thinner and lighter device is not. Adding a novel new mode of interaction to high-end models is pragmatic. Adding the Touch Bar to the base 15" model and increasing the entry-level price point by 20% is not. There has always been an element of designer vanity to Apple's products, but it has been tempered by pragmatism. The 2016 MacBook Pro marks the point where vanity gained the upper hand – and I hope pragmatism takes it back soon.
• i0n1 8y ago
  nice try Google xD
• modernerd 8y ago
  Trying Arch on a ThinkPad, Ubuntu on a Dell, and Windows on a Surface Book made me appreciate my MacBook more. It's very tempting to realise you don't use any Apple apps, see how you're paying a lot for last year's hardware specs, throw up your arms and say “I'm done with Apple! I'll get a hacker's laptop!” But — if you've become accustomed to Apple hardware and macOS — the experience felt like a real downgrade to me. I have a laundry list of Mac niggles, but they're generally in the category of, “I wish I could tweak that behaviour a little” (like fully removing OS-level UI animations beyond what “reduce motion” offers) rather than, “I can't work until this problem is solved”, which is what I saw much more of on Arch, Ubuntu, and Windows (redraw issues that rendered applications unusable, updates that broke critical deps and required rollbacks, and almost daily blue-screening on Windows). Apple also gets a bunch of things right by default that you miss when you go elsewhere, like their trackpads, screens, and zero-config full-disk encryption. The Touch Bar MacBook Pro I have now may be worse than the previous model in some ways (I do not like the keyboard or use the Touch Bar), but overall the experience hasn't declined enough to fall behind everything else that's on offer for me.
  • ManFromUranus 8y ago
    "and almost daily blue-screening on Windows" Please just stop, that never happened, unless you're job is to write device drivers and then it's probably you're device driver that's causing it.
    • modernerd 8y ago
      This continues to be a well-documented and persistent issue for Surface Book owners. You can read about old accounts here (around the time I owned mine): https://forums.windowscentral.com/microsoft-surface-book/406240-2.htm https://forums.windowscentral.com/microsoft-surface-book/406... And more recent ones here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/7qtavp/surface_book_performance_base_blue_screen/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/7qtavp/surface_boo... Microsoft told me it was a driver issue but trying alternative drivers did not improve things for me. I have no desire to slander Microsoft and was only sharing my experience. I very much like other aspects of the Surface Book and would be tempted by a device of the same form factor if stability issues could be resolved.
• kraig 8y ago
  i've been typing for more than 20 years and i do not get the fuss over keyboards, i can type on any of them with very little adjustments. i haven't had a problem with dust on the latest MBP either, and i treat mine pretty poorly.
  • JustSomeNobody 8y ago
    I've been typing for longer and some keyboards just suck.
• dawnerd 8y ago
  Disagree with most of the items here: - Charging/Ports: USB-c is excellent. Used to have two+ cables to connect power and dual monitors. Now its just a thunderbolt cable feeding to an elgato dock. I can also (albeit slowly) charge my laptop with a usb-c power bank when traveling. I've yet to find myself needing a dongle most of the time. Cameras these days have wifi to copy files off and wireless ac is fast enough to not need ethernet. The only time I bring one is when traveling and even then its low profile and half the time I forget its even in my backpack. - Keyboard: Okay this is fair. Gets really bad as the computer heats up, way more noticeable on normal Macbooks. - Trackpad: Yeah I don't get your criticism, I love having a large trackpad. - Touch Bar: I find it really useful and have it customized like crazy using better touch tool. Pretty nifty. I could live without it, but why? Love it. - MacOS: Not sure how this makes the MBP "decline" as all macs have had this for years. - Docker: Again not a MBP problem, complain to docker devs. Biggest problem the MBP have is lack of ram. They absolutely should have sacrificed battery life for the people that really wanted more than 16gb. I'm already hurting my battery life as it is with the radeon graphics card. Other thing I wish they'd change is round out the corners near the trackpad, they can be quite sharp sometimes.
  • mikkelam 8y ago
    For the Docker issue I would disagree. If that's how the ecosystem looks on mac, it's a valid consideration against getting one if that is indeed where one spends the majority of ones time. For example I don't use linux because I need macOS to develop iOS apps. Should I just stop doing it and complain to apple? No of course not.
    • dawnerd 8y ago
      The docker issue in question is just that, a docker issue. Recent versions have improved it greatly. I run some pretty large docker containers and it can be slow but not totally unbearable like a year ago.
  • Rebelgecko 8y ago
    The port situation is just confusing for me. I'm getting a new Macbook Pro soon, and I have two 4k monitors. It seems like most docks don't support dual 4k monitors at 60hz, and there's weird and sometimes conflicting info online about what configurations actually work. For example, Apple's own USB-C <=> Thunderbolt 2 adapter will fit with my mini displayport cables but apparently won't actually work. Some things may also be dependent on which USB-C port is being used (the ones on the left have more bandwidth). I don't mind the move to USB-C (or Thunderbolt 3 I guess), I just wish the MBPs had at least 1 USB-A and maybe an HDMI port for a couple years while people start switching over
• andrewfromx 8y ago
  I recently switched from MBP to iPad Pro with keyboard + mosh and digital ocean linux box. Using blink https://github.com/blinksh/blink https://github.com/blinksh/blink is amazing and free if you just compile it yourself. Mosh makes all the interactions with the command line just like it was on my local MBP but finally the keyboards works! And the iPad Pro has LTE so no more entering wifi passwords or waiting for the wifi to connect. LTE is always on. Also using iOS Slack and iOS Firefox and iOS google docs etc all the normal business day to day apps is amazing. So I have best of both worlds, terminal + gui. Oh and battery life! Wow, just need a little usb battery pack with lighting cable and it last days.
• uhryks 8y ago
  I've been working on a MBP (non touchbar) for a month now. Coming from years of using Windows I'm rather satisfied about the OS. The big issue for me is that it heats up an awful lot. The keyboard being thin makes me feel the heat if i keep my fingers on it. My palms get hot and I'm not even doing a lot of CPU-intensive tasks (webdev). Some colleagues told me their touchbar MPB also heat but I see nobody in this thread complaining about it, which is really wierd to me...
• foobaw 8y ago
  The sad thing about this is that there aren't better alternatives. MBPs are designed extremely well and not many Windows laptops are comparable. Windows is a complete mess. I also don't think premium Chromebooks are marketable (Chromebook Pixel experiment failed). Linux has too many issues. The best thing to do is hope that the MBP team addresses their major issues (keyboard, etc). Edit: Looks like the new Pixelbook is actually a decent competitor!
  • corybrown 8y ago
    > Pixelbook failed This is news to me. How did it fail?
    • foobaw 8y ago
      Sorry, this was my mistake - I meant the Chromebook Pixel not Crostini (Pixelbook).
    • Theodores 8y ago
      I don't think anything can be said to fail unless you know what the definition of success is. If success is everyone and his dog having one then Pixelbook failed by a country mile. However I believe that the Pixelbook is not really aimed at being a mass market seller, it is more of a reference platform for Google's own work as well as a useful machine for their own development in their own special way. The original Chromebook Pixel was cast in this mould and the Pixelbook fills the same shoes. So if success is Google having a machine they can use to develop ChromeOS and their many other products then I think the project is a success. Personally I am waiting for them to come out with an 8th generation i7 version with suitable ability to run a linux container for a LAMP stack and IDE. Money is no object for the right tool for the job so price doesn't really matter if Pixelbook is the only computer really desired. I wrote this on that previous 'failure' the original Chromebook Pixel. This may be five years old but there is no computer with better speakers, screen, keyboard, touchpad and aesthetic appeal. I believe the Pixelbook to be better but not entirely so, the speakers and keyboard 'can't' be better.
  • pa7ch 8y ago
    I feel like its just taking off. Crostini is a game changer. Super stable and secure base OS with a modern linux kernel but with real vendor hardware support that is auto-updating and mostly immutable. Then you have, out of the box with a single click, a debian container running inside a VM with full graphics integration and file integration. You can see your container's FS from the file manager and I can run wayland and X apps easily. Its also easy to run more containers via LXC. more info: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/8c8ac04aed5d45bb6a14605c422dbbd01eeadf15/containers_and_vms.md https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/8c8ac04a...
• oneplane 8y ago
  Seems more like a rant from someone who has a Mac but doesn't actually wants a Mac for the current workload. Then instead of using a Mac, use something else? (this also goes the other way around, and for many other "appliance X isn't want I wanted" or "vendor Y should have made product A more like product B" posts -- you can give feedback, but direction is ultimately decided by money) Also, just because there are default options delivered with the OS, doesn't mean you have to use them or that they are in the way. At the same time, if you don't like your preload, why not change it? Make a simple script, put it in version control and be done with it. On top of that, pretty much all of it also goes for Windows, Gnome and KDE etc. If you install one of those you get a ton of crap you don't really use as well, so it's more of a 'I selected a bundle of software to use but I don't like everything in it'-deal. It's not the bundle's fault that you don't like what's in it, is your choice and the only person who made that choice is you. Goes for all hardware and software out there, and just because it's not feasible to write a whole OS + Tools + DE yourself and be productive and compatible at the same time doesn't mean everyone else is to blame for not creating the bundle that magically matches everything you can dream of.
• thothamon 8y ago
  All the flaws mentioned are valid enough, but most don't resonate with me as strong negatives, with the exception of iTunes, which is a bloated, slow, nasty mess. That aside, a big deal for me is that Mac laptops max out at 16GB. That's perhaps the biggest single reason I'm not buying one now. Hopefully the refresh will fix this. Another big deal is the general lack of attention for OS X (or macOS or whatever). The exception is the updated filesystem, and even this was an extremely painful transition for me because (although it may be fixed now) Spotlight doesn't work on external volumes using APFS. Or how about some good process/application sandboxing and quota capabilities? Or, my machine with 128 GB (!) of RAM starts out blazing fast, and then slows down: process switching can take a second or two, which is really annoying. How is this happening on a modern OS in 2018? Simple -- Apple is not trying. Having said this, I agree with some other posters that macOS is the worst desktop OS out there, except for all the other ones. I frequently have to use Windows and I simply cannot make myself like it. I love Linux for its freedom and for its terminal, but none of the desktops are awesome in comparison to macOS. Not many people would say they "love" Windows or they "love" Gnome, but many would still say they love macOS, despite the flaws.
• jryan49 8y ago
  I think comparing Arch linux to MacOS is even worse than apples and oranges. They are pretty much literal opposites of one another.
• ecocentrik 8y ago
  Apple designed the MacBook to make a good first impression with the tablet crowd (shiny touch new touch bar, big battery, light-weight...) while ignoring a market segment that uses laptops as productivity workhorses. Maybe they feel MacBooks aren't really suited as workstation replacements the way most software developers use them. They defiantly convinced me that that I'm better off not owning one.
• hajile 8y ago
  I don't know if the author will read this, but the latest generation Lenovo X1 does NOT work well with linux due to their horrible sleep state bios bug. https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Linux-Discussion/X1-Carbon-Gen-6-cannot-enter-deep-sleep-S3-state-aka-Suspend-to/td-p/3998182 https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Linux-Discussion/X1-Carbon-Gen-... https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1_Carbon_(Gen_6) https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1_Carb...
  • tasuki 8y ago
    The 5th get X1 Carbon works fine though!
  • dguo 8y ago
    Author here. Thanks for the links. I will keep them in mind when I end up making my decision.
• s2g 8y ago
  On the plus side, the tank like nature of the 2013s means I'm still good for a bit with mine. Replaced the battery a few months back. Need a new adapter too. The machine itself is great though.
• ra88it 8y ago
  A year ago I sold my beloved MacBook Pro for $950 and purchased a ThinkPad X220 (circa 2012) via eBay for $300. Installed Arch and xmonad. Learned how to use xmonad. I love it now, and I might just continue buying used X220s for the rest of my life or until I'm unable to source decent batteries for them.
  • wilsonnb2 8y ago
    The x220 has a lot of issues compared to newer laptops, MacBook or not. 12.5" screen is pretty small for most people. Having a low resolution doesn't help. Only some models (the ones that came with an i7 processor, I think) have USB 3 ports, and even those models just have one. It doesn't have an HDMI port. It's thick and heavy. They have 2nd gen core series Intel processors which are way, way less power efficient than the 4th gen or newer processors. It's also got slow wifi and it has a wifi card whitelist in the bios, so you can't put a better card in it. Pretty much the only reason to buy one nowadays is if you need something really cheap that runs linux well, which is exactly why I bought one in 2015 when I was a senior in college and also the reason I stopped using it as soon as I could afford something better.
  • bluedino 8y ago
    The screen on a X220 is basically unusable in both quality and resolution. I have one as my backup Windows laptop, but I couldn't use it every day.
    • wilsonnb2 8y ago
      It was available with an IPS panel that is good enough quality to be usable, although the TN panel that the base model came with is awful. Fortunately it is extremely easy to swap screens on the X220, and the IPS screens are cheap on eBay. You are dead on about the resolution, though. That's the reason I stopped using my x220.
• VectorLock 8y ago
  What is the closest 15" laptop to the MacBook Pro in terms of case durability? The cases in every other laptop I've looked at from Dell, HP, etc looked so flimsy and cheap in comparison.
  • mi100hael 8y ago
    Dell XPS isn't bad. Not as good as a MBP, though.
• sh-run 8y ago
  In 2012 I switched from a 2010 MBP 13" to a Thinkpad T410 running linux for personal use and haven't looked back. I distro hopped for a while (Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, CrunchBang, Debian and Arch) before settling on Fedora. I'm seeing quite a few complaints about usability issues in Linux. I think that's fair for the most part, but as a counterpoint, I've had very few issues and these days it seems like most things just work. Fedora is not perfect out of the box, but it's pretty easy to fix. 1. Install Fedy (folkswithhats.org), provides one click installs for pretty much every application I use that isn't in the fedora repos. It also has a script that improves the font rendering. 2. Install Gnome Tweak Tool, I wish this was included by default. It makes it easy to change themes, keybinds, etc. 3. Install a decent looking theme (I use Arc). IMHO at this point the UI looks far better than my wife's Macbook Air and is significantly more usable (of course that's coming from a long time gnome user). At that point I'm pretty much done. You no longer need to install TLP or powertop to get good battery life. I can't remember the last time I had a kernel panic (while my Windows 7 machine at work BSOD'd this morning). I vastly prefer the trackpoint on my thinkpad to any touchpad I've used (although my old MBP had the best touchpad I've ever used). As a bonus I spend lots of time at work logged into a redhat server, so having the same CLI on my personal machine is great. Another point is that you can activate a Windows 10 VM using the OEM key. I keep a Windows VM installed just in case, but I seldom use it. I will say that I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a T480 and am going to stick with the 1080p display because I've heard horror stories about scaling in linux.
• bitL 8y ago
  I am trying to hold onto my older retina 15", even up to BGA rework of memory/GPU upgrade chips. I can run macOS without any issues on some other laptops (even better on 3200x1800 or 4k displays), maybe requiring WiFi card replacement and getting used to a slightly different keyboard layout, but it's way better than using the current gen of rMBPs.
• minimaul 8y ago
  As a long time Mac user, I still feel like many in this thread that the pinnacle of the MBP was the 2012->2015 rMBP models. MagSafe for charging isn't without it's issues (cable fraying in particular) but it's incredibly convenient and a real nice anti-damage feature. The lack of other ports on the 2016+ model infuriates me. Virtually nothing I use is USB-C or thunderbolt 3. There's still no real ethernet adapter like there was for Thunderbolt 2. Literally every device I have has to connect via an adapter. The 2012 model did this far better - useful USB ports, a SD slot, miniDP/thunderbolt and HDMI. Yes I had to use a Thunderbolt 2 -> ethernet adapter, but that was only one. It's tolerable. Especially considering the form-factor it made possible. The new keyboard is atrocious. It hurts my fingers to type on for more than a few minutes at a time, and it's far too fragile. A quick straw poll of my co-workers at work gave ~20% of them saying they have currently or have had a bad key on a 2016 model. That's just unacceptably bad. Trackpad on the 15" is just too large. It's not terrible on the 13" but on the 15" it's just too big and accidental input is a big big big issue. I basically never ever use the touchbar ;) It's just an annoying extra cost. My personal laptop is still a 2012 rMBP that I spent far too much on when it was new - but it's lasted and is still lasting (but it needs a new battery now) - 16G of RAM and a 512G SSD is still a reasonable laptop for most development work. I'm seriously considering just getting the battery replaced rather than buying a new one. That's how much of a downer the new 2016+ models are to me. edit: I've considered Linux laptops over and over... what keeps putting me off there is that Linux is still clunky. Want to have a high DPI monitor? all of your monitors need to be high DPI or you have to do scaling tricks that make text look awful. Want compositing? Cross your fingers and hope it doesn't crash! I see this regularly on Intel, NVIDIA and AMD hardware. Want reliable suspend/resume? Go hunting through obscure ACPI issues with the vague hope it'll work some day. And the biggest issue - touchpads still suck on Linux. Dell make some nice hardware in the XPSes but the software integration is poor.
• pjmlp 8y ago
  Anyone buying a Mac computer to use for GNU/Linux development, is not paying the right people. Go support System76, Dell, Asus or any other vendor with GNU/Linux offerings instead. Use a Mac for Mac development.
• mey 8y ago
  I suggest walking into a Microsoft store and putting hands on the Surface Book specially. The original has been my favorite laptop ever, mostly for lack of battery anxiety and build quality. My Macbook Pro is never used as a laptop, always on a desk with power and external keyboard, rendering the touchbar even more useless than normal. It has to be used that way as simply doing video conferencing for 45min well take the battery from 100% to 68%
• meowzero 8y ago
  I've been using MBP 2017 since it came out. It's fine. This is just another list of complaints that we heard since it came out. The Magsafe was nice, but it's not a deal breaker. I actually like the option of plugging in my power cable on both sides. I find that feature better than the magsafe. Also, I never had an instance where someone or something kicked out the power-cord. So the "safety" feature isn't lost on me. I was disappointed they got rid of the SD card port, but I like the standard usb-c ports. I wished they had more than 4 though. And yes, they should NOT get rid of the headphone port. That would be terrible. But I'm worried the next iteration would be headphone-port less. I don't mind the keyboard. I had the 2012 MBP, used a 2013, 2014, and now the 2017. I guess I'm not picky about keyboards. I can't tell a difference when I'm writing or coding. The TrackPad is too big; I agree with that. But I don't mind it. It hasn't affected me. The touchbar is probably the worst feature of MBP, sadly. It has no utility. They should've waited so they could've added haptic feedback or come up with more uses for the touch-bar. The only use of the touch-bar is the fingerprint scanner to unlock your mac. That's probably the best feature, even though they could've just added a fingerprint scanner next to real keys. I don't understand the author's point about, "The overarching problem with macOS programs is that they are tied to Apple hardware." He doesn't want native apps? I can't imagine an IDE running in a web browser. Or even using Photoshop, 3-D rendering software, Music editing, Video editing, etc. The Web isn't there yet to replace those type of apps. Also, he picked and chose what apps he doesn't need. Why don't he just uninstall them? I am happy they included iMovie and Garageband, when I need to do some simple movie or music editing. If I didn't use Lightroom, I would probably be happy with Photos as well.
• nepeckman 8y ago
  The price of a high end MacBook pro is pretty ridiculous too. I haven't bought from them yet, but System 76 has been on my radar for a while now. Their computers seem to have better specs, while being considerably cheaper. A high end Galago pro seemed like it'd be around $1500, a high end MacBook pro is like $2700.
• VectorLock 8y ago
  Sounds like there is going to be a pretty healthy secondary market for 2015 MacBook Pros. Someone should start snapping them up now.
• eqdw 8y ago
  I'm getting more and more disappointed in Apple's hardware, but OSX is still better than any other OS out there by a mile. I'm feeling conflicted about this. I have an emojibar Macbook pro. Since getting it shortly after they launched, I've had two complete hardware failures resulting in Apple replacing the whole thing. Most of this post's other complaints I agree with but don't feel strongly about, but the keyboard thing is really bad. Specs of dust have caused keys to stop functioning. Trying to fix them, I one day popped the enter key off and broke the plastic clip holding it on. So I bought a replacement key, only to find out that the mounting bracket for the key (which I have to replace) is _glued_ on to the case. So now I have a perfectly functional enter key, except that the entire thing will fall out of the laptop whenever I tilt it sideways. This isn't the level of hardware quality I've grown to know and love. If they release a new MBP that resolves these issues, I might stick with it. But as things stand, I'm looking at a non-macbook for my next laptop. I really don't want to do that, since I've gotten used to OSX and nothing else compares to the ease of use and the things I have set up. But I'm getting tired of paying thousands for second-rate hardware
• diehunde 8y ago
  The thing is that every time someone uses linux and complains because some bug or something, they think of macos and seem to forget all the issues with it and only remember the good things, like the nice UI. This also happens to my self
• linguae 8y ago
  I was disappointed on Monday when the WWDC keynote made no mention at all about future Mac hardware, not even a general roadmap. I'm in need of a new laptop, one that has powerful hardware, including 32 GB RAM, and unfortunately there's no portable solution from Apple that supports more than 16 GB of RAM unless I want to lug around my Mac Pro or purchase a high-end iMac. For the past few months I've been using Linux Mint on a spare ThinkPad T430 that I have. As a computer science researcher I use my computers for development (largely in C, C++, Java, or Python, although I've been bitten by the Lisp and Smalltalk bugs lately and I've been learning Common Lisp and Pharo, respectively), reading and writing papers, drawing the occasional diagram, and entertainment. For these purposes Linux Mint is good, and I could be productive in this environment. However, there are a lot of conveniences in macOS that I miss in Linux or even Windows, and these little conveniences make me more productive in macOS than in other operating systems. I prefer Keynote to PowerPoint and to LibreOffice Impress. I love how it is possible to print to PDF from any macOS application; it's a feature I regularly take advantage of. I love Preview.app; it can concatenate PDF files, and Preview.app also supports PDF highlighting, which is a feature I make heavy use of as a computer science researcher. Unfortunately, I had a difficult time finding a Linux-compatible PDF viewer that could highlight PDF files in a portable way. Even running Adobe Acrobat Reader under Wine wasn't sufficient due to rendering issues under Wine. Another Mac program I make full use of that has no Linux equivalent is Dictionary.app, which contains the New Oxford American Dictionary, a Japanese-English dictionary, and a Japanese-Japanese dictionary. Having an offline dictionary is a wonderful convenience, and as someone studying Japanese, having full Japanese-English and Japanese-Japanese dictionaries on my computer is amazing. I'm unaware of any Windows equivalents, and the issue in Linux is commercial dictionary support due to copyright issues. Yeah, there are some open source dictionaries like Wiktionary, and there's the 1913 version of Webster's that's in the public domain, but it's not the same as having the most recent Merriam-Webster's, Oxford, or American Heritage Dictionary available. I could also use online dictionaries, but once again an offline dictionary is more convenient. The past few days have opened my eyes to the disadvantages of being a Mac user. I'm increasingly resenting being beholden to one hardware provider in order to use macOS legally. I made this compromise starting in 2006, back when Apple was regularly releasing new Macs that were not only excellent performers, but were also reliable and price-competitive. I have fond memories of my 2006 Core Duo MacBook, which still works, by the way. But ever since Steve Jobs passed away, I've found Mac hardware to be increasingly compromised on the performance standpoint, as well as increasingly considerably more expensive than equivalent PCs. The current iteration of MacBook Pro is also a departure from Apple's legendary reliability, and is shaping up to dethrone the infamous PowerBook 5300 as Apple's worst laptop (and I actually have a PowerBook 5300 that my friend gave me; it's not a bad computer, it was just plagued by reliability issues that Apple addressed in a seven-year recall program). I could deal with USB-C, I could deal with a touchbar, and I could even swallow soldered RAM and SSD even though I have contempt for a lack of user-serviceability, but what I could not tolerate is a faulty keyboard design that is not only considerably less reliable than any other keyboard Apple has ever made, but is very expensive to fix outside of warranty. Unfortunately the alternatives that Apple provides aren't suitable for me. I already have a Mac Pro, I don't need an iMac or a Mac Mini, the current MacBook Air lineup is just a marginal speed bump from my dead 2013 MacBook Air, and I'm not paying what Apple charges for a 2015 15" MacBook Pro ($1999 new, $1699 refurbished; it's possible to buy a Dell XPS 15 9560 with a 4k display, a quad-core Kaby Lake i7 processor, 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB M.2 SSD for $1900 right now). macOS still remains my favorite OS, and there will be many conveniences that I will be giving up by switching away to Linux and/or Windows. Unfortunately it seems that Apple's decisions regarding its Mac hardware from 2015 onward have left me flummoxed. On one hand Apple is still investing in macOS updates, as evidenced by its work on High Sierra and now Mojave. Apple also did release the iMac Pro, and the modular Mac Pro is in the works for a 2019 release. These actions suggest that Apple is not abandoning the Mac. On the other hand, the Mac Mini hasn't been updated since October 2014 and the rest of Apple's lineup hasn't been updated in a year now (there are no Coffee Lake offerings from Apple), yet Apple remains tight-lipped about its future hardware plans. I wish Apple were a better steward of the Mac platform, where each product in the lineup is updated on a regular, consistent basis, and where Apple has a six-quadrant matrix of products: the rows represent desktops and laptops, and the columns represent three categories of user: casual users, intermediate users, and "no compromise" users. I wholeheartedly believe that Apple should create a branch company à la Claris that focuses exclusively on the Mac. I wish things were better with the Mac platform, but my needs can't wait on announcements from Apple. For now I'll make do with a laptop running Linux or Windows, but what I would really love to see is a new, well-polished, cross-platform OS that brings innovation back to desktop computing. Despite contrarian voices saying that smartphones and tablets will overtake personal computers, there are still many things that personal computers are more appropriate for than smartphones and tablets are. Unfortunately there are no passionate defenders of desktop computing left in the industry. Apple's priorities seem to be clearly about the iOS platform (although they're maintaining the Mac at a level high enough to keep us Mac users in suspense), Microsoft's priorities are about the cloud these days, and even in the Linux world the emphasis seems to be on technologies relevant to servers, such as all of the work that's been done on containers in recent years. I feel that desktop computing has stagnated, but it's stagnating because the companies maintaining today's desktop operating systems are not passionate about desktop computing. We need individuals and companies who are passionate about desktop computing and want to bring renewed levels of innovation and polish to personal computers again.
• poulsbohemian 8y ago
  I would consider switching to Linux, but those mc keyboard commands are consistent and etched into my muscle memory. When I have to fire up a Linux vm, it is painful to recall whether it’s shift-ctl-c or ctl-c, etc. if there were consistency across apps, it wouldn’t be nearly such a drastic move.
• theonemind 8y ago
  Everyone complains about the keyboard, but I really like it. It doesn't take much pressure for key activation and the travel is really low. I use a mechanical keyboard plugged in a lot of the time, but I can type for an extended duration on the MBP keyboard and like it a lot. However, I like the mechanical keyboard because of the audible click where I don't have to bottom out the keys. I have mild RSI and I find it very helpful to type with a light touch. I haven't personally had any reliability issues with the keyboard. The keyboard doesn't impair my speed or the usability in the slightest. I think I can type a bit more quickly and easily on it.
  • kylehotchkiss 8y ago
    I'm in the same boat as you, i've used the new keyboard on two separate machines for over a year and actually like the feel. When laptop gets warm, they can get louder but thats my only complaint.
• statbit 8y ago
  I get where the post is coming from, but moving the Mac backwards isn't going to make people run out and get it in droves. "New Macbook now with old ports and smaller trackpad". That isn't a tagline that is going to move a ton of macbooks. I would like to see more RAM, FaceId perhaps, faster machines, and, though I haven't experience it, some attempt to address keyboard reliability would be a win.
• AtlasBarfed 8y ago
  Did Apple flush the case production plans down the toilet? I don't understand why the 15" MBP with an HDMI and usb ports can't be manufactured with better processors / SSDs / port versions / video cards / LCDs. Just give me a MBP with an OLED, new SSD/procs/video cards, HDMI 2.0+, and sure maybe a bunch of USB/USB-C. The developers of the world will eat that up. If Apple cares so little for it's computers, bring back the approved hackintosh. Don't even get me started about how desktop computing is fundamentally screwed up. Windows died with windows 8. Linux cannot stop reinventing the desktop wheel and busting compatibility every time (Gnome 2/3/Mate/Mint/KDE/Unity is all a big huge disaster). And Apple can't slum themselves to cheap hardware and the CTRL - vs - AppleKey is just terrible for switching between machines. Intel should have grabbed the reins of OS and partnered with Google for a real Linux desktop. They should have done that the second they saw the Windows 8 tile demo.