6 ms·

Not to be too curmudgeonly but you don't have to guess, almost all those CLI interfaces have a manual and a --help function. You can't ask a chatbot what its op

Not to be too curmudgeonly but you don't have to guess, almost all those CLI interfaces have a manual and a --help function. You can't ask a chatbot what its options are.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Jaruzel 8y ago
Ok, so... Linux Newbie: "I need to find out how much space I have left on this machine." > freespace bash: freespace: command not found > diskspace bash: diskspace: command not found > disk info bash: disk: command not found > diskinfo bash: diskinfo: command not found > man disk space No manual entry for disk No manual entry for space > help disk space bash: help: no help topics match `space'. Try `help help' or `man -k space' or `info space'. (looks it up on the internet) > df /dev/sda1 Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/sda1 19478160 1370768 17094912 8% / ... AND that's why GUIs are preferred by most non-technical computer users. EDIT: Maybe I should have said 'CLI Newbie' - I am in no-way singling out Linux here.
- umanwizard 8y ago
  Windows Newbie: “I need to find out how much space I have left on this machine.” Now what?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - Jaruzel 8y ago
    "Oh there's a folder icon" (click) "Oh there's an entry called My PC" (click) "Aha, there's my disk and little bar showing the free space" It's two clicks if you have your wits about you, maybe a few more if its not that obvious. I don't know why you singled out Windows. It's just as easy in Gnome or KDE etc - the point here is that CLIs can never be as intuitive as GUIs. As the original article said - Humans are very visual people. Seeing things in a visual space is much easier for us.
    - stephengillie 8y ago
      Further, Windows will pop up a notification that your disk space is running low, and this opens another window with suggestions for different types of files (temporary update files, temporary internet files, recycle bin, installed programs) that can be removed to release space.
      - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
        Ubuntu does warnings for low disk space too. Personally I think the experience is very similar for noobs.
  - hiccuphippo 8y ago
    Click on My PC. The answer is there on the disk icons. But then again, why wouldn't the Linux guy search google in the first place? Or if it is a total newbie, look for the disk icons, the information is there as well.
  - dingo_bat 8y ago
    Press windows key, type "space". First item is "Storage". Press enter or click it, you see a prominent progress bar like thing and text: "300GB used, 164GB free".
- claudius 8y ago
  $ apropos space CORE (3perl) - Namespace for Perl's core routines arpd (8) - userspace arp daemon. CMSG_SPACE (3) - access ancillary data CUDA_ERROR_INVALID_ADDRESS_SPACE (3) - (unknown subject) cudaErrorInvalidAddressSpace (3) - (unknown subject) df (1) - report file system disk space usage
  - Jaruzel 8y ago
    Thank you, you just re-enforced my point; I've been using Linux seriously for about a year now, and I didn't know about 'apropos'. Bash never mentioned it whenever I got stuck, and my learning travels on the internet has never referenced it.
    - jandrese 8y ago
      Honestly google is a better tool unless you already kind of know what you're looking for. Google "linux how much space on drive" and the first hit tells you exactly what you need. Another question someone might ask is "how do I change my password". Google for "linux change password" and there is a special help box right at the top of the search results. apropos password and you get this enormous list: apg (1) - generates several random passwords chage (1) - change user password expiry information chgpasswd (8) - update group passwords in batch mode chpasswd (8) - update passwords in batch mode cpgr (8) - copy with locking the given file to the password or gr... cppw (8) - copy with locking the given file to the password or gr... cracklib-check (8) - Check passwords using libcrack2 create-cracklib-dict (8) - Check passwords using libcrack2 crypt (3) - password and data encryption crypt_r (3) - password and data encryption des_read_2passwords (3ssl) - Compatibility user interface functions des_read_password (3ssl) - Compatibility user interface functions doveadm-pw (1) - Dovecot's password hash generator endpwent (3) - get password file entry endspent (3) - get shadow password file entry EVP_BytesToKey (3ssl) - password based encryption routine expiry (1) - check and enforce password expiration policy fgetpwent (3) - get password file entry fgetspent (3) - get shadow password file entry fgetspent_r (3) - get shadow password file entry getpass (3) - get a password getpw (3) - reconstruct password line entry getpwent (3) - get password file entry getpwnam (3) - get password file entry getpwnam_r (3) - get password file entry getpwuid (3) - get password file entry getpwuid_r (3) - get password file entry getspent (3) - get shadow password file entry getspent_r (3) - get shadow password file entry getspnam (3) - get shadow password file entry getspnam_r (3) - get shadow password file entry git-credential-cache (1) - Helper to temporarily store passwords in memory gitcredentials (7) - providing usernames and passwords to Git grpconv (8) - convert to and from shadow passwords and groups grpunconv (8) - convert to and from shadow passwords and groups grub-mkpasswd-pbkdf2 (1) - generate hashed password for GRUB lckpwdf (3) - get shadow password file entry login.defs (5) - shadow password suite configuration lppasswd (1) - add, change, or delete digest passwords. Net::LDAP::Control::PasswordPolicy (3pm) - LDAPv3 Password Policy control object Net::LDAP::Extension::SetPassword (3pm) - LDAPv3 Modify Password extension ob... pam_pwhistory (8) - PAM module to remember last passwords pam_unix (8) - Module for traditional password authentication passwd (1) - change user password passwd (1ssl) - compute password hashes passwd (5) - the password file passwd2des (3) - RFS password encryption putpwent (3) - write a password file entry putspent (3) - get shadow password file entry pwck (8) - verify integrity of password files pwconv (8) - convert to and from shadow passwords and groups pwunconv (8) - convert to and from shadow passwords and groups seahorse (1) - Passwords and Keys setpwent (3) - get password file entry setspent (3) - get shadow password file entry sgetspent (3) - get shadow password file entry sgetspent_r (3) - get shadow password file entry shadow (5) - shadowed password file shadowconfig (8) - toggle shadow passwords on and off smbpasswd (5) - The Samba encrypted password file smbpasswd (8) - change a user's SMB password ulckpwdf (3) - get shadow password file entry unix_chkpwd (8) - Helper binary that verifies the password of the curren... unix_update (8) - Helper binary that updates the password of a given user vigr (8) - edit the password, group, shadow-password or shadow-gr... vipw (8) - edit the password, group, shadow-password or shadow-gr... xcrypt (3) - RFS password encryption xdecrypt (3) - RFS password encryption xencrypt (3) - RFS password encryption If you didn't already know you were looking for the "passwd" command it might be hard to pick it out of the list.
- pinkythepig 8y ago
  I feel like the real problem here is that bash is still the default and bash defaults/UX are straight up awful. The fish shell gets a lot of things right in regards to a sane out of the box experience, though there are a few things it could do better. The tools themselves leave a lot to be desired from a UX experience too. Things like nonsense names, bad defaults and/or no inherent intelligence in the program, means you have to specify numerous options manually for things that should be easy to automate. The whole experience would benefit greatly by telling people about things like man/apropros on first startup and other one time tutorials. There are some days where I feel tempted to write small helper scripts whose sole purpose would be to rename/reorient the default experience/flags of various CLI apps, so that it is not a jumbled mess full of historical accidents that can no longer be changed.
detaro 8y ago
> You can't ask a chatbot what its options are. then it's a really bad one.

Not to be too curmudgeonly but you don't have to guess, almost all those CLI interfaces have a manual and a --help function. You can't ask a chatbot what its options are.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

Jaruzel 8y ago

Ok, so... Linux Newbie: "I need to find out how much space I have left on this machine." > freespace bash: freespace: command not found > diskspace bash: diskspace: command not found > disk info bash: disk: command not found > diskinfo bash: diskinfo: command not found > man disk space No manual entry for disk No manual entry for space > help disk space bash: help: no help topics match `space'. Try `help help' or `man -k space' or `info space'. (looks it up on the internet) > df /dev/sda1 Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/sda1 19478160 1370768 17094912 8% / ... AND that's why GUIs are preferred by most non-technical computer users. EDIT: Maybe I should have said 'CLI Newbie' - I am in no-way singling out Linux here.

umanwizard 8y ago
Windows Newbie: “I need to find out how much space I have left on this machine.” Now what?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Jaruzel 8y ago
  "Oh there's a folder icon" (click) "Oh there's an entry called My PC" (click) "Aha, there's my disk and little bar showing the free space" It's two clicks if you have your wits about you, maybe a few more if its not that obvious. I don't know why you singled out Windows. It's just as easy in Gnome or KDE etc - the point here is that CLIs can never be as intuitive as GUIs. As the original article said - Humans are very visual people. Seeing things in a visual space is much easier for us.
  - stephengillie 8y ago
    Further, Windows will pop up a notification that your disk space is running low, and this opens another window with suggestions for different types of files (temporary update files, temporary internet files, recycle bin, installed programs) that can be removed to release space.
    - pbhjpbhj 8y ago
      Ubuntu does warnings for low disk space too. Personally I think the experience is very similar for noobs.
- hiccuphippo 8y ago
  Click on My PC. The answer is there on the disk icons. But then again, why wouldn't the Linux guy search google in the first place? Or if it is a total newbie, look for the disk icons, the information is there as well.
- dingo_bat 8y ago
  Press windows key, type "space". First item is "Storage". Press enter or click it, you see a prominent progress bar like thing and text: "300GB used, 164GB free".
claudius 8y ago
$ apropos space CORE (3perl) - Namespace for Perl's core routines arpd (8) - userspace arp daemon. CMSG_SPACE (3) - access ancillary data CUDA_ERROR_INVALID_ADDRESS_SPACE (3) - (unknown subject) cudaErrorInvalidAddressSpace (3) - (unknown subject) df (1) - report file system disk space usage
- Jaruzel 8y ago
  Thank you, you just re-enforced my point; I've been using Linux seriously for about a year now, and I didn't know about 'apropos'. Bash never mentioned it whenever I got stuck, and my learning travels on the internet has never referenced it.
  - jandrese 8y ago
    Honestly google is a better tool unless you already kind of know what you're looking for. Google "linux how much space on drive" and the first hit tells you exactly what you need. Another question someone might ask is "how do I change my password". Google for "linux change password" and there is a special help box right at the top of the search results. apropos password and you get this enormous list: apg (1) - generates several random passwords chage (1) - change user password expiry information chgpasswd (8) - update group passwords in batch mode chpasswd (8) - update passwords in batch mode cpgr (8) - copy with locking the given file to the password or gr... cppw (8) - copy with locking the given file to the password or gr... cracklib-check (8) - Check passwords using libcrack2 create-cracklib-dict (8) - Check passwords using libcrack2 crypt (3) - password and data encryption crypt_r (3) - password and data encryption des_read_2passwords (3ssl) - Compatibility user interface functions des_read_password (3ssl) - Compatibility user interface functions doveadm-pw (1) - Dovecot's password hash generator endpwent (3) - get password file entry endspent (3) - get shadow password file entry EVP_BytesToKey (3ssl) - password based encryption routine expiry (1) - check and enforce password expiration policy fgetpwent (3) - get password file entry fgetspent (3) - get shadow password file entry fgetspent_r (3) - get shadow password file entry getpass (3) - get a password getpw (3) - reconstruct password line entry getpwent (3) - get password file entry getpwnam (3) - get password file entry getpwnam_r (3) - get password file entry getpwuid (3) - get password file entry getpwuid_r (3) - get password file entry getspent (3) - get shadow password file entry getspent_r (3) - get shadow password file entry getspnam (3) - get shadow password file entry getspnam_r (3) - get shadow password file entry git-credential-cache (1) - Helper to temporarily store passwords in memory gitcredentials (7) - providing usernames and passwords to Git grpconv (8) - convert to and from shadow passwords and groups grpunconv (8) - convert to and from shadow passwords and groups grub-mkpasswd-pbkdf2 (1) - generate hashed password for GRUB lckpwdf (3) - get shadow password file entry login.defs (5) - shadow password suite configuration lppasswd (1) - add, change, or delete digest passwords. Net::LDAP::Control::PasswordPolicy (3pm) - LDAPv3 Password Policy control object Net::LDAP::Extension::SetPassword (3pm) - LDAPv3 Modify Password extension ob... pam_pwhistory (8) - PAM module to remember last passwords pam_unix (8) - Module for traditional password authentication passwd (1) - change user password passwd (1ssl) - compute password hashes passwd (5) - the password file passwd2des (3) - RFS password encryption putpwent (3) - write a password file entry putspent (3) - get shadow password file entry pwck (8) - verify integrity of password files pwconv (8) - convert to and from shadow passwords and groups pwunconv (8) - convert to and from shadow passwords and groups seahorse (1) - Passwords and Keys setpwent (3) - get password file entry setspent (3) - get shadow password file entry sgetspent (3) - get shadow password file entry sgetspent_r (3) - get shadow password file entry shadow (5) - shadowed password file shadowconfig (8) - toggle shadow passwords on and off smbpasswd (5) - The Samba encrypted password file smbpasswd (8) - change a user's SMB password ulckpwdf (3) - get shadow password file entry unix_chkpwd (8) - Helper binary that verifies the password of the curren... unix_update (8) - Helper binary that updates the password of a given user vigr (8) - edit the password, group, shadow-password or shadow-gr... vipw (8) - edit the password, group, shadow-password or shadow-gr... xcrypt (3) - RFS password encryption xdecrypt (3) - RFS password encryption xencrypt (3) - RFS password encryption If you didn't already know you were looking for the "passwd" command it might be hard to pick it out of the list.
pinkythepig 8y ago
I feel like the real problem here is that bash is still the default and bash defaults/UX are straight up awful. The fish shell gets a lot of things right in regards to a sane out of the box experience, though there are a few things it could do better. The tools themselves leave a lot to be desired from a UX experience too. Things like nonsense names, bad defaults and/or no inherent intelligence in the program, means you have to specify numerous options manually for things that should be easy to automate. The whole experience would benefit greatly by telling people about things like man/apropros on first startup and other one time tutorials. There are some days where I feel tempted to write small helper scripts whose sole purpose would be to rename/reorient the default experience/flags of various CLI apps, so that it is not a jumbled mess full of historical accidents that can no longer be changed.

detaro 8y ago

> You can't ask a chatbot what its options are. then it's a really bad one.