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When it comes to being oversensitive needy little things there is no true Scottsman. As a northern European I find it not only comfortable that Linus runs Linu

• richmarr 8y ago
  As another Northern European I disassociate myself from your comment. Yes, there are cultural differences between the US and Europe. No, that doesn't mean that Europe agrees with your opinion on what constitutes acceptable behaviour in the software community. You do not speak for us.
  • cbluth 8y ago
    There is no true Northern European.
    • posterboy 8y ago
      There's an honest scottsman though. Ha. I'm sure the difference is due to lattitude. A little bit of getting heated is ill advised in the scorching sun.
  • omginternets 8y ago
    I dunno, man, I grew up in the states and moved to Northern Europe, and I definitely see what he means. It's quite refreshing, even.
  • umadtho9000 8y ago
    And neither do you.
• cncrnd 8y ago
  Do you feel that your views are cultural and not unique to yourself? Maybe I should look into moving because I am tired of smiling dummies. That being said, I feel that if I were in a managerial position here in the Bay Area I would probably adopt a smile and softer language because that's what people are used to. The challenge is being genuine while putting people at ease so that they can do their best work.
• alexkrycek 8y ago
  If only us silly Americans talked so "honestly" with our wives: "Why did you cook this? Are you fucking stupid?" I'm in the military, and if you can't control what you say, you shouldn't be respected.
  • deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  • AsyncAwait 8y ago
    This is not aimed at you specifically, but I find this decorum policing off punting. Like the U.S. military may be able to control what they say, but some of the things it has actually done are less than nice. I don't care that Linus swears, he hasn't invaded anyone or harmed anyone as far as I know. I don't care that Trump swears, I care about the stupid stuff he actually does. Linus may swear, but he also protects us from bad code and I value that, because in the end, words don't do anything, actions do.
    • alexkrycek 8y ago
      I didn't bring the military up to say that it's an authority on proper conduct. Rather, I'm saying that EVEN in the military, with some of the most insensitive people around, swearing indicates lack of self-control and situational awareness.
      • AsyncAwait 8y ago
        Sure, swearing may indicate lack of self-control, but the lack of swearing does not indicate self-control, nor does the presence of swearing indicate lack of self-control. I once saw a doc about the alarming levels of rape in the U.S. military. Some of these guys were pretty high rank, so I guess they fooled everyone that they possessed self-control, (perhaps they didn't swear), but in reality they clearly lacked self-control. I only bring up this example to explain my point, I know there are many officers who don't swear and don't lack self-control, but my point is that the lack of swearing doesn't really prove anything, nor does the presence of swearing.
• ThJ 8y ago
  Cultural differences? Look, we're not famous for our hospitality up here, but we are polite.
• yoshuaw 8y ago
  Northern European checking in here. I feel super uncomfortable with this communication style. Don't think this is reflective of cultural differences, so much as it is personal preference.
• kristianc 8y ago
  > As a northern European I find it not only comfortable that Linus runs Linux, but I would be less comfortable if it was another American smile in face pretend to be your friend but be shady as fuck attitude that you guys seem to confuse for 'professionalism'. This is a false dichotomy. Most of what Linus says would run foul of HN's guidelines - which I'll paraphrase here as "don't call someone an asshole before making your real point", but that doesn't mean that everyone on HN is a 'smile in face pretend to be your friend but be shady as fuck'.
  • ralfn 8y ago
    When somebody speaks their mind, everybody around them knows where they stand. I doubt there is difference between about how often people resent other people around the world. But I do consider it more humane if resentment isn't hidden under the surface. It's easier to trust Linus than a tactfull politician. That should make us all think.
    • mannykannot 8y ago
      One circumstance where insults might be justified is where one party has ignored valid objections to his position. I mention this here because kristianic made the valid point that you have set up a false dichotomy, and you replied with a statement that keeps it going. Is the habit of not paying attention to the actual issues also part of your superior Northern European culture, and, in fact, is it perhaps a reason why insults are apparently such an important part of it?
      • deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      • mannykannot 8y ago
        I see someone chose to down-vote without commenting - presumably not one of those self-described straight-talking Northern Europeans?
    • richmarr 8y ago
      > It's easier to trust Linus than a tactfull politician. That should make us all think. I can kinda see where you're going with this, ie. the idea that knowing what someone is thinking means you can trust them... but I disagree. To my mind verbal abuse doesn't mean they're speaking their mind, it means they've lost control. Based on these blow-ups I'd certainly question trusting Torvalds in any high stakes situation that required tact under pressure... which I would expect to happen frequently when running a country.
• mosselman 8y ago
  What nonsense. I am Dutch and live in the Netherlands, we are very direct and take little to no heed to hierarchy. I never said that Linus should be fake friendly. I am saying that swearing does damage to moral and the power of his arguments. Also, Steve Jobs was a notorious asshole and he is revered in the US despite this. There are countless other examples of CEOs and managers who are more than unfriendly in the US who are looked at as examples of how one should behave to be 'professional'. Your being 'northern European' has nothing to do with any of what we are talking about. Maybe you can chalk your reaction to your apparent false sense of superiority over friendliness and, it seems, Americans.
  • ralfn 8y ago
    Swearing doesn't damage morale. Many soccer coaches and inspiring pep talks contain swear words. It's a style figure. Tact can be very usefull in small teams where trust and coordination is important. For large projects, with thousands of stake holders the bar to participate in a conversation should be high. As we both say in Holland: we are not made of sugar. But go read Linus rant now and ask yourself: would this really classify as an inappropriate rant in Holland? Or are you just, parroting the default (mostly from the US) critique on Linus? Because this whole 'Linus isn't tactfull' is a false comparision. He is more approachable than any other person in that sort of position. Since there isn't a big filter at the door based on who somebody is but there is a verbal filter at the table. Very egalitarian if you ask me. Very Dutch like. And our directness is often referred to as rude. It would look better on you to not blindly follow in that judgement when it concerns others. For example: >Maybe you can chalk your reaction to your apparent false sense of superiority over friendliness and, it seems, Americans If out of the mouth of Linus would be one of those 'look at how insensitive Linus is' posts. Something with the pot and the kettle.
    • smhost 8y ago
      We get it, you have daddy issues. edit: dumbass people actually defending this emotionally illiterate, developmentally challeneged child man.
    • letsgetphysITal 8y ago
• rdsubhas 8y ago
  While Linus may be right, why is it that we always find only "Linus ranting out against people" threads that trend? In a positive way, why don't we have "Linus gets ranted against" posts? Is it because Linus is always right? Or is it because nobody speaks up against Linus? Or is it because Linus isn't actively coding much since git days? Or is it just because it happens but doesn't get as much visibility? I'm just asking this to see if this culture is one way or goes both ways...
  • ralfn 8y ago
    Since even the people complaining about it are eating it up like donuts. They just don't want to admit it turns them on. The honest reaction to any post like this is to just report it because the only entertainment factor is the drama.
  • finnthehuman 8y ago
    >I'm just asking this to see if this culture is one way or goes both ways... That won't tell you anything about LKML culture, either. If you want a better sense of lkml than social media hot takes can deliver, go lurk it for a month.
  • bjconlan 8y ago
    This is a very good question. I wonder if we're just rubbernecking the train wreck that is Linus' management style. All his responses come from A "care personally" perspective but I'm still not sure if this is what you would call "radical candor". Either way stay tuned. I really hope we don't loose Linus to burnout on things like this but some days I wish he was more tactful with his responses (particularly to people that look to be trying to "fix" a problem which is seemingly inline with standards even if said person doesn't realise the real world implications)