5 ms·

9-5 core hours is bullshit. The whole point of core hours is to be a window of time where you can guarantee a meeting can be scheduled with people across time

9-5 core hours is bullshit. The whole point of core hours is to be a window of time where you can guarantee a meeting can be scheduled with people across time zones. This doesn't mean you have 8 hours of core hours. That's literally insane.

icelancer 8y ago
Agreed. When I run teams the core hours are typically 10 AM - 2 PM or some band of 4 hours around a key time.
dahart 8y ago
It feels like you didn't even read the comment you replied to. FWIW, I've worked in a company where the whole point of core hours was to have a working set of people in the building at the same time, and wasn't related to time zones or even meetings.
seanmcdirmid 8y ago
Not to mention you can’t adjust your hours at all to avoid rush hour or cooperate with a spouse in day care management. 9-5 is necessary for banks, but not for software developers. Having a few core hours is necessary, but if it’s 8, you can no longer call them “core”.
- dahart 8y ago
  > if it’s 8, you can no longer call them “core” You are lucky if you think 10-12 hour work days don't exist in software development. You might also be forgetting about flex schedules, core hours may include the entire working day and may be a signal that substituting 9-10am for 5-6pm is not acceptable because you were hired to do a job that depends on your presence when others are also there. There are multiple legitimate reasons that core hours exist in 8 hour blocks in some places. And that's all moot since the specific hours in this discussion are unrelated to the point @jph was making, which he already stated kindly and clearly.
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    No, they really can't do that, at least they can't document it, unless the employees are non-exempt or they wish for the employees to be paid overtime. Even having core time at all sounds like a non-exempt requirement, let alone the whole day. Many managers are completely oblivious to federal labor laws, unfortunately.
    - dahart 8y ago
      It would help to have more specifics about who & what you're talking about, I'm not sure what you mean when you say they can't do that. But, I worked in a very well known Hollywood film studio that had mandatory 10 hour work days with an 8 hour core window, not including crunch times. They factored overtime pay into the schedule. This meant that all employees were being paid some 1.5 time, that double-time would hit sooner than you'd think, but also be a lower rate than what you might expect. It was all documented and reported on my tax forms, and within the bounds of California law AFAIK.
      - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        You weren’t exempt since you were getting paid overtime. Exempt and non exempt status are very clearly defined. One gets paid hourly, the other a salary. If you are on any kind of schedule, you are usually non exempt unless really a manager.
        dahart 8y ago
        Yes, that's correct. Where are you going with this? Both exempt and non-exempt employees there, including all the software devs, had an 8 hour core window that was called "core hours", and everyone worked at least 10 hour days.
        seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        In order to be exempt, your hours can’t be fixed. You can go over or under them as part of your duties, but as soon as the boss says you will work XXX hours, then your exempt status disappears That this law is broken often is in no doubt, but all it takes is one complaint to the DOL to set things straight quickly. At the very least, if the core hours are documented, it should be fairly easy to make a case for whatever overtime was worked.
- lkrubner 8y ago
  seanmcdirmid, what country are you in? In the USA there are very few jobs that are strictly 40 hours. Part-time jobs are less than that, whereas full-time jobs are typically more than that.

icelancer 8y ago

Agreed. When I run teams the core hours are typically 10 AM - 2 PM or some band of 4 hours around a key time.

dahart 8y ago

It feels like you didn't even read the comment you replied to. FWIW, I've worked in a company where the whole point of core hours was to have a working set of people in the building at the same time, and wasn't related to time zones or even meetings.

seanmcdirmid 8y ago

Not to mention you can’t adjust your hours at all to avoid rush hour or cooperate with a spouse in day care management. 9-5 is necessary for banks, but not for software developers. Having a few core hours is necessary, but if it’s 8, you can no longer call them “core”.

dahart 8y ago
> if it’s 8, you can no longer call them “core” You are lucky if you think 10-12 hour work days don't exist in software development. You might also be forgetting about flex schedules, core hours may include the entire working day and may be a signal that substituting 9-10am for 5-6pm is not acceptable because you were hired to do a job that depends on your presence when others are also there. There are multiple legitimate reasons that core hours exist in 8 hour blocks in some places. And that's all moot since the specific hours in this discussion are unrelated to the point @jph was making, which he already stated kindly and clearly.
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  No, they really can't do that, at least they can't document it, unless the employees are non-exempt or they wish for the employees to be paid overtime. Even having core time at all sounds like a non-exempt requirement, let alone the whole day. Many managers are completely oblivious to federal labor laws, unfortunately.
  - dahart 8y ago
    It would help to have more specifics about who & what you're talking about, I'm not sure what you mean when you say they can't do that. But, I worked in a very well known Hollywood film studio that had mandatory 10 hour work days with an 8 hour core window, not including crunch times. They factored overtime pay into the schedule. This meant that all employees were being paid some 1.5 time, that double-time would hit sooner than you'd think, but also be a lower rate than what you might expect. It was all documented and reported on my tax forms, and within the bounds of California law AFAIK.
    - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
      You weren’t exempt since you were getting paid overtime. Exempt and non exempt status are very clearly defined. One gets paid hourly, the other a salary. If you are on any kind of schedule, you are usually non exempt unless really a manager.
      - dahart 8y ago
        Yes, that's correct. Where are you going with this? Both exempt and non-exempt employees there, including all the software devs, had an 8 hour core window that was called "core hours", and everyone worked at least 10 hour days.
        seanmcdirmid 8y ago
        In order to be exempt, your hours can’t be fixed. You can go over or under them as part of your duties, but as soon as the boss says you will work XXX hours, then your exempt status disappears That this law is broken often is in no doubt, but all it takes is one complaint to the DOL to set things straight quickly. At the very least, if the core hours are documented, it should be fairly easy to make a case for whatever overtime was worked.
lkrubner 8y ago
seanmcdirmid, what country are you in? In the USA there are very few jobs that are strictly 40 hours. Part-time jobs are less than that, whereas full-time jobs are typically more than that.