5 ms·

Why don't they declare an emergency on the actual problem, chronic shortages of housing supply, and reform their zoning and tax/rent entitlements to fix it? It

Why don't they declare an emergency on the actual problem, chronic shortages of housing supply, and reform their zoning and tax/rent entitlements to fix it? It's hard for me to take anything California government does seriously right now while they're ignoring the 10 ton elephant in the room that's causing almost literally every other problem. If they don't start addressing this with a significant attack plan extremely soon, their tax base will leave the state in droves, and they will never raise taxes enough to make up the difference. It's an emergency, declare it one and do something real about it.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> Why don't they declare an emergency on the actual problem, chronic shortages of housing supply, and reform their zoning and tax/rent entitlements to fix it Because chronic shortage of housing supply is not a problem for local government[0], it's a deliberate and rational response to the demands (including binding constraints like Prop 13) placed on local governments by the citizens of the State. [0] the institutional government, at least; California is a direct democracy with limited delegation from the citizenry to the institutional government, and this is a problem for the citizenry-as-government, of course.
- johnnyfaehell 8y ago
  > Because chronic shortage of housing supply is not a problem for local government[0], it's a deliberate and rational response to the demands (including binding constraints like Prop 13) placed on local governments by the citizens of the State. This is why America is by many people considered fucked.
  - bequanna 8y ago
    Not sure I follow. Are you referring to this specific piece of legislation or the ability for states to regulate local governments?
roel_v 8y ago
"their tax base will leave the state in droves," Man that place is a dump, nobody goes there - it's always too busy.
- xapata 8y ago
  While there's a hefty dose of irony in the fear of emigration, socioeconomic dynamics can have some interesting nonlinearities. Meaning, in the long run, anything can happen.
  - roel_v 8y ago
    Sure. But 'they should be careful they don't get too successful because there are negatives to being very successful!' isn't much of an argument. It's like saying 'be careful not to make too much money! It won't fit in your wallet and you'll have to buy a new one, even if your old one isn't really worn out yet!'. Uh sure, I'll deal with that 'problem' when I get there, thanks.
    - xapata 8y ago
      That one is different. Following your metaphor, we've been overflowing the wallet for 10 years, but we haven't bought a new one yet.
- yasp 8y ago
  Until the tax death spiral.
- anoncoward111 8y ago
  What you are describing has been happening in New York and New Jersey for literally decades- -so much so that we have lost electoral seats in Congress because of our population shrinkage, while Florida has gained.
  - moorhosj 8y ago
    Are you saying this sentiment has existed for decades or the population loss has existed for decades? New York and New Jersey each recorded their highest population levels ever in the 2010 census.
CalRobert 8y ago
Because pissing off the homeowners apparently costs votes. If California were run in the 1800's like it is now there'd be one single house and everything else would be zoned to Nevada.
labcomputer 8y ago
> Why don't they declare an emergency on the actual problem, chronic shortages of housing supply, and reform their zoning and tax/rent entitlements to fix it? Because a large segment of the population doesn't see it as a problem. Your "chronic housing shortage" is their winning lottery ticket. People who bought California property in the 70's, 80's, and 90's have a number of options, thanks to the chronic housing shortage. They can: fund a retirement in Arizona by selling the house outright (even with no other retirement savings); rent to newcomers for many times the house's mortgage payment (living quite comfortably off the difference); or simply take out a home equity loan to use the house as an ATM. Their children and grandchildren can inherit the tax basis for the property, too, so you're actually fighting two or three generations. Would you really vote for zoning & tax reform if it mean that you could no longer enjoy a passive, inherited income capable of fully supporting your family?
- conanbatt 8y ago
  Absolutely correct. Fortunately, in economics, the invention kills its creator every time. If SF stops growing, then the last drove of people will be the bag holders, and it all goes downhill from there.
  - downrightmike 8y ago
    Or it could lead to a boom in construction and modernization of the city, much like in StarTrek where SF is leveled in World War 3.
    - conanbatt 8y ago
      Or much like starship troopers and Buenos Aires.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Why don't they declare an emergency on the actual problem, chronic shortages of housing supply, and reform their zoning and tax/rent entitlements to fix it Because chronic shortage of housing supply is not a problem for local government[0], it's a deliberate and rational response to the demands (including binding constraints like Prop 13) placed on local governments by the citizens of the State. [0] the institutional government, at least; California is a direct democracy with limited delegation from the citizenry to the institutional government, and this is a problem for the citizenry-as-government, of course.

johnnyfaehell 8y ago
> Because chronic shortage of housing supply is not a problem for local government[0], it's a deliberate and rational response to the demands (including binding constraints like Prop 13) placed on local governments by the citizens of the State. This is why America is by many people considered fucked.
- bequanna 8y ago
  Not sure I follow. Are you referring to this specific piece of legislation or the ability for states to regulate local governments?

roel_v 8y ago

"their tax base will leave the state in droves," Man that place is a dump, nobody goes there - it's always too busy.

xapata 8y ago
While there's a hefty dose of irony in the fear of emigration, socioeconomic dynamics can have some interesting nonlinearities. Meaning, in the long run, anything can happen.
- roel_v 8y ago
  Sure. But 'they should be careful they don't get too successful because there are negatives to being very successful!' isn't much of an argument. It's like saying 'be careful not to make too much money! It won't fit in your wallet and you'll have to buy a new one, even if your old one isn't really worn out yet!'. Uh sure, I'll deal with that 'problem' when I get there, thanks.
  - xapata 8y ago
    That one is different. Following your metaphor, we've been overflowing the wallet for 10 years, but we haven't bought a new one yet.
yasp 8y ago
Until the tax death spiral.
anoncoward111 8y ago
What you are describing has been happening in New York and New Jersey for literally decades- -so much so that we have lost electoral seats in Congress because of our population shrinkage, while Florida has gained.
- moorhosj 8y ago
  Are you saying this sentiment has existed for decades or the population loss has existed for decades? New York and New Jersey each recorded their highest population levels ever in the 2010 census.

CalRobert 8y ago

Because pissing off the homeowners apparently costs votes. If California were run in the 1800's like it is now there'd be one single house and everything else would be zoned to Nevada.

labcomputer 8y ago

> Why don't they declare an emergency on the actual problem, chronic shortages of housing supply, and reform their zoning and tax/rent entitlements to fix it? Because a large segment of the population doesn't see it as a problem. Your "chronic housing shortage" is their winning lottery ticket. People who bought California property in the 70's, 80's, and 90's have a number of options, thanks to the chronic housing shortage. They can: fund a retirement in Arizona by selling the house outright (even with no other retirement savings); rent to newcomers for many times the house's mortgage payment (living quite comfortably off the difference); or simply take out a home equity loan to use the house as an ATM. Their children and grandchildren can inherit the tax basis for the property, too, so you're actually fighting two or three generations. Would you really vote for zoning & tax reform if it mean that you could no longer enjoy a passive, inherited income capable of fully supporting your family?

conanbatt 8y ago
Absolutely correct. Fortunately, in economics, the invention kills its creator every time. If SF stops growing, then the last drove of people will be the bag holders, and it all goes downhill from there.
- downrightmike 8y ago
  Or it could lead to a boom in construction and modernization of the city, much like in StarTrek where SF is leveled in World War 3.
  - conanbatt 8y ago
    Or much like starship troopers and Buenos Aires.