14 ms·
I think Tesla's are beautiful and have set the bar, but if you want a capable & cheap alternative, look at a used BMW i3. Resale value sunk for many reasons but
by pxlpshr 8y ago
I think Tesla's are beautiful and have set the bar, but if you want a capable & cheap alternative, look at a used BMW i3. Resale value sunk for many reasons but has bottomed.
<salesman>I bought a 2016 fully-loaded REX with 5,000 miles for under $25K, sticker was $58K. Factory warranty for 4 years, 8 years on the battery. Fastest BMW from 0-40mph. This thing flies for urban commuters. It comes with a charger that can plug into a conventional socket which can be nice for people who don't have the means to install a 240v. Fun to hack with BimmerCode to customize all sorts of stuff. My big complaint is the rear door system is awkward. It also rides a little high so I put 1" lowering springs and 15mm wheel spacers which greatly improved handling.</salesman>
I'm also interested in testing the Jaguar iPace. By most performance measures, its beaten the Model X.
- duxup 8y agoOh man though a BMW without a warranty though... once it hits that... the cost of repairs has to skyrocket and resale has to drop like a rock.
- cornholio 8y agoIt's an electric car. They are usually reliable until the battery or drive train fails, at which point they can be used as excellent chicken coops. Things like brakes, body, electrics should be fixable on the cheap by regular non-brand shops.
- clarky07 8y agobut, but, the range :-( It's actually probably fine for most people, but I have a long commute and it wouldn't cut it for me sadly.
- pxlpshr 8y agoThe Range Extender means you can drive across United States without depending on the grid; the REX is a gas re-generator. The BimmerCode hack(s) makes it more enjoyable to actually go the distance. I now have a combined 140 miles per charge and ~2.5L gas reserve. There is a popular i3 Facebook Group where people log their long distance drives. All of that said, my average commute is 10 miles so I'm purely electric about 95% of the time unless I forget to plugin. I got the REX because I thought the resell would be better in Texas. The i3 has a "BEV" version that is much cheaper but more limited in its range; newer models are getting better tho.
- atomical 8y agoThe aesthetics of the BMW i3 are poor. Is that why resale value dropped?
- Sohcahtoa82 8y agoAesthetics are 100% subjective. I think it's a fine looking car.
- pxlpshr 8y agoYes, it's a clown car but I'm okay with that. Resale dropped due to federal tax credits and BMWs aggressive leasing plans. For me, it was an experiment to try EV and I'm 100% sold. It also pushed me to go full solar on the home we're building. Rather make an environmental impact than a status statement.
- atomical 8y agoIf they made it look like any other BMW I think it would be a nice ride. I guess they may feel that dilutes the value of their other product lines?
- chemmail 8y ago$25k is still a bit much for a car that tiny. What you really want is a used Leaf that has bottom out at around $5000-$8000 for great condition specimens and drive great.
- pxlpshr 8y agoA used, low-mile i3 BEV (comparable to Leaf) is around $10-15k. I bought the REX which gives me 'unlimited' distance.
- jv22222 8y agoWe got a ford focus electric it looks nicer than the frog face leaf and is zippy to. Almost like new was $16k and it works great as a local second car. But the range is really low, you can’t go more than 25-30 miles away from home. Still, we love it for what it is and does.
- notatoad 8y ago25-30 mile range is getting down to the point where a ~1500 e-bike would be almost as practical, unless you've got kids.
- newnewpdro 8y ago$16k on a small vehicle that can't take you more than 30 miles from home... yikes.
- coldseattle 8y agoA Leaf is a glorified golf cart. If you can't afford a Tesla, the next best bet is a Chevy Bolt which has a 250 mile range and not a golf-cart range. (Also, you're buying American, if that's important to you)
- madengr 8y agoCan go even less. I bought a 2015 Nissan Leaf with 19k miles for $8,500.
- nerdwaller 8y agoJust be careful if you’re in a cold climate. A buddy owned one and had to charge his leaf at Nissan dealerships in the cold to make it home after work - and if I recall right, his commute wasn’t more than 15mi/way.
- outworlder 8y agoThat doesn't sound right. That's only 30 miles, total. This should be easily doable even with the cabin heater + battery heater at high highway speeds. Was this Leaf's battery healthy?
- NegativeLatency 8y agohttps://www.fleetcarma.com/nissan-leaf-chevrolet-volt-cold-weather-range-loss-electric-vehicle/ https://www.fleetcarma.com/nissan-leaf-chevrolet-volt-cold-w... Seems like if it gets cold enough it might be a problem.
- madengr 8y agoThose graphs show a 50 mile range on the Leaf. That’s still enough sub 0F to get me to work and back, twice.
- r00fus 8y agoThis makes sense - for whatever inane reason (I'm not going to outright say it's malfeasance), Nissan chose to not include active thermal management for their Leaf line of cars. Even the one they sell today only has less effective cooling. This means that older Leafs have a greatly reduced range. Even my budget Ford Focus EV 2017 ($16k negotiated cap cost) has active thermal management for the battery pack so I might keep it off-lease.
- brightball 8y agoIMO nothing beats a slightly used Volt.
- dsfyu404ed 8y agoYeah, but GM products are not exactly fashionable among people shopping for Tesla alternatives.
- dexterdog 8y agoAnd the i3 is? That's one of the ugliest cars on the market.
- seattle_spring 8y agoIt's not about the look of the car for BMW owners, it's just about the price tag and the name on the badge.
- dexterdog 8y agoI thought the i3 was a pretty affordable BMW esp if you can get the rebates.
- seattle_spring 8y agoI think you may fall into the category of people I was referring to, if you think $45k for a slow, base model car is no big deal.
- dsfyu404ed 8y agoAn ugly German luxury car is still a German luxury car.
- dmead 8y agothe (v|b)olt has horrible charging infrastructure.
- LoSboccacc 8y ago> wheel spacer > improved handling X) doubt
- tw04 8y agoHaving previously owned a used BMW: I wouldn't touch a BMW without a warranty with a 20ft pole. I mean... The only way to realign the headlights if they get thrown off for some reason is to pay the dealership $200+ because they can't self correct and the only tool that can access the headlight controllers is BMW proprietary. Run, run while you can.
- serf 8y ago>Having previously owned a used BMW: I wouldn't touch a BMW without a warranty with a 20ft pole. Yeah, i'd agree if we were talking about traditional cars, and this comes from someone who has wrenched on every bolt of their BMW. As far as the DIY repair-ability of BMW's electric cars? About the same as every other electric car -- which is to say 'near-zero', unless we're talking about wiper blade replacement level stuff.
- CogitoCogito 8y agoTo be clear, are you saying you're okay with a lack of repairability in BMW electric cars because that's standard for electrics? You're free to your perspective, but I find it a little odd. My reaction would be to simply not buy any electric cars at all. Is there any reason why the owner shouldn't be able to realign headlights in an electric car when they are able to do so with ICE cars?
- JohnJamesRambo 8y agoI’m sure they are referring to the fact that electric cars need very little maintenance.
- StudentStuff 8y agoElectric cars might need very little maintenance during the first few years of operation, but why should I be needlessly locked out from making repairs on my own vehicle? We've let car companies create what will end up being massive hunks of useless metal and batteries, all because we won't properly regulate them to ensure end users can work on their own cars and extend their useful lives. That right there is why current electric cars are far from green, if it ain't repairable, its trashcan ready. Trashcan ready products are the anti-thesis of environmentally sound products.
- dexterdog 8y agoi3 resale value sunk because it's ugly as sin.
- unclebucknasty 8y agoIt's like BMW didn't get the memo that electric cars don't have to look like electric cars anymore.
- jjtheblunt 8y agoi3 was an early one.
- ben_w 8y agoNot early enough for that to be an excuse for BMW. It looks like it was “inspired by” the style of a neon rubber G3 iBook.
- roel_v 8y agoNext year's electric X3 doesn't look that much different from the normal X3.
- sgift 8y agoWith that argument the Model 3s resale value should be "we give you 1000 Dollar extra if you take it from our hands. PLEASE?!"
- dexterdog 8y agoWhy, what's wrong with the model 3 (tesla or BMW)? They're both pretty benign looking IMO.
- JohnJamesRambo 8y agoI had never seen one. Googled. Exactly as described.
- nvarsj 8y ago
- coldseattle 8y agoOr a Chevy Bolt!
- newnewpdro 8y ago> Fastest BMW from 0-40mph What is this nonsense? The REX isn't even as fast as the standard i3, nevermind considering actual performance-oriented BMWs. Your statement is so generalized it includes the S1000RR and HP4 superbikes in its comparison, hogwash.
- dzonga 8y agoglad someone mentioned bikes(motorcycles). very friendly to the environment, well except of course super sports | sports since they guzzle gas. but sill better mpg than most cars. my stolen fz1 used to get 50mpg when I was doing over 120mph
- newnewpdro 8y agoI highly doubt your fz1 got 50mpg while traveling over 120mph. Presumably you mean you averaged 50mpg across a tank of gas which included some time spent > 120mph, which is a huge difference. Most riders can't really sustain > 120mph for an entire tank of gas, which is typically the granularity of measurement for casual mpg estimates made at fillup time. My experience with liter bikes was that the fuel economy dropped to < 10mpg approaching vmax, which in combination with their small tank capacity poses a very real problem for those fleeing police.
- jjtheblunt 8y agoi was like wtf at that comment too, partly because i drive a pure electric i3 for almost 4 years, partly because of the motorcycles, though a pure electric i3 IS fast.
- newnewpdro 8y agoI've never been in an i3, but just judging from the numbers on wikipedia; 168 BHP with a claimed 2635 lb curb weight, reminiscent of Mazda MX-5 numbers, is not what I'd call a fast power:weight ratio. There's no doubt in my mind that the i3 feels quick off the line being electric. But I don't think it qualifies as fast unless you're comparing it to a Nissan Leaf or other comparatively slow EVs.
- jjtheblunt 8y agoi3 with REX is _not_ the fastest BMW from 0-40. i3 pure electric is faster, for one counterexample. Having driven one for nearing 4 years, it's crazy fast.
- pxlpshr 8y agoCorrect. "one of the fastest..." is more accurate. The new m4's beat the i3 0-30 but only by a few fractions. In any event, it's very very fast for an urban commuter and I annoy plenty of people driving AMGs and Porsches in my clown car.
- rich-and-poor 8y agoI'm also interested in testing the Jaguar iPace. By most performance measures, its beaten the Model X. You are lying. The iPace is FAR behind the Model X in all performance measures. The iPace has a manufacturer's estimated range of ~350km, no EPA rated range given. The Model X has EPA rated maximum range of 475km - that's a third party verified range that is 125km above the estimated (and very optimistic) range of the iPace. As far as speed goes, iPace is 4.8s to 100km/h, while the P100D variant of the Model X is 0 - 100km/h in 3.6s, a solid second faster. I don't know why you write such obviously wrong things. They are blatantly false and misleading. Don't write stuff that is blatantly wrong, you poison the internet along with the collective human consciousness.
- jameskegel 8y agoI appreciate that someone is stable able to cast a critical view on those spreading non-facts. I hope this catches on.
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y agoA relative of mine who works for JLR was claiming that the iPace was better than the Model X in every way the other day too. He started reeling off figures that were blatantly inferior. I can only assume GP also works for them. It's a strange mindset over there.
- pxlpshr 8y agoOne of us is correct, depending on what the other is talking about. But "FAR behind" is a bit of a gross overstatement. I also don't understand your negativity except that it must be rooted in a love affair for Tesla/Elon. When I said performance, this is the video I watched that compelled me to get interested in what Jaguar was doing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keWERJBfDPI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keWERJBfDPI
- rich-and-poor 8y agoYou are being fooled, they never show the backside of that Tesla Model X to reveal the battery size. They are also not really an independent third party