4 ms·

> Consider the three operating system families we are forced to choose from: Windows, Apple, Other (which I shall refer to as “Linux” despite it technically bei

by cwyers 8y ago

> Consider the three operating system families we are forced to choose from: Windows, Apple, Other (which I shall refer to as “Linux” despite it technically being more specific). > All of these are built around the same foundational concepts, those of Unix. > Android sits atop the Linux kernel, with iOS (as well as Mac OS) atop Darwin (dunno about Windows Phone, but it doesn’t matter). Linux and Darwin are both descendants of Unix. Windows also bears many similarities to Unix, possibly through it, but whether there is a dependency does not affect the point. To me, the key effects of this monopoly are as follows. And we're done here. Thanks for playing, close the door on the way out.

IshKebab 8y ago
Yeah he dismissed Windows way too easily, but some of his later points still hold for Windows. The terminal still sucks (though Powershell at least tries to modernise it a bit). It still uses processes and files in basically the same way Unix does. The most common interface between programs is still the C ABI. It doesn't have the obsession with unstructure text, which is nice.
- JdeBP 8y ago
  It is a mistake to call it "the terminal". Consoles are not terminals. It is a regular thing for Linux/Unix people to talk about making a "better terminal". The irony of your talking about Windows in terms of "the terminal", is that pretty much all of the ideas that people put forward for making a "better terminal" have actually been done, decades since, in the worlds of MS/PC/DR-DOS, OS/2, and Windows NT. OS/2 version 1.0 had the MOU, KBD, and VIO subsystems, which introduced device independent input event streams, 2D screen buffer addressing, a handle-based API, and API calls rather than escape and control sequences. Windows NT took this further into the Win32 concept of a console. * http://jdebp.eu./FGA/tui-console-and-terminal-paradigms.html http://jdebp.eu./FGA/tui-console-and-terminal-paradigms.html Command-line interpreters are not terminals, either. Powershell doesn't modernize "the terminal". * http://jdebp.eu./FGA/a-command-interpreter-is-not-a-console.html http://jdebp.eu./FGA/a-command-interpreter-is-not-a-console.... And the most common interface between programs has never actually been the C ABI, not on DOS, not on OS/2, nor on Win32/Win64. The most commonly used convention has to be the one used by applications softwares to make system calls. Thus the most common calling convention on 16-bit OS/2 and Win16 was in fact the (Microsoft) Pascal calling convention. 32-bit OS/2 and Win32 used different calling conventions, APIENTRY and WINAPI, that still weren't the ones used by plain C functions unadorned with calling convention specifiers. * http://jdebp.eu./FGA/function-calling-conventions.html http://jdebp.eu./FGA/function-calling-conventions.html

by cwyers 8y ago

IshKebab 8y ago

Yeah he dismissed Windows way too easily, but some of his later points still hold for Windows. The terminal still sucks (though Powershell at least tries to modernise it a bit). It still uses processes and files in basically the same way Unix does. The most common interface between programs is still the C ABI. It doesn't have the obsession with unstructure text, which is nice.

JdeBP 8y ago
It is a mistake to call it "the terminal". Consoles are not terminals. It is a regular thing for Linux/Unix people to talk about making a "better terminal". The irony of your talking about Windows in terms of "the terminal", is that pretty much all of the ideas that people put forward for making a "better terminal" have actually been done, decades since, in the worlds of MS/PC/DR-DOS, OS/2, and Windows NT. OS/2 version 1.0 had the MOU, KBD, and VIO subsystems, which introduced device independent input event streams, 2D screen buffer addressing, a handle-based API, and API calls rather than escape and control sequences. Windows NT took this further into the Win32 concept of a console. * http://jdebp.eu./FGA/tui-console-and-terminal-paradigms.html http://jdebp.eu./FGA/tui-console-and-terminal-paradigms.html Command-line interpreters are not terminals, either. Powershell doesn't modernize "the terminal". * http://jdebp.eu./FGA/a-command-interpreter-is-not-a-console.html http://jdebp.eu./FGA/a-command-interpreter-is-not-a-console.... And the most common interface between programs has never actually been the C ABI, not on DOS, not on OS/2, nor on Win32/Win64. The most commonly used convention has to be the one used by applications softwares to make system calls. Thus the most common calling convention on 16-bit OS/2 and Win16 was in fact the (Microsoft) Pascal calling convention. 32-bit OS/2 and Win32 used different calling conventions, APIENTRY and WINAPI, that still weren't the ones used by plain C functions unadorned with calling convention specifiers. * http://jdebp.eu./FGA/function-calling-conventions.html http://jdebp.eu./FGA/function-calling-conventions.html