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As somebody who got refunded: As much as I want to support Elon, I later realized the full total cost of the car (having a garage, doing the maintenance,..) was
by Buetol 8y ago
As somebody who got refunded: As much as I want to support Elon, I later realized the full total cost of the car (having a garage, doing the maintenance,..) wasn’t in my budget and that it’s simply better to invest in a lifestyle where I just don’t need a car. Interrestingly, I had the same conclusion about buying an house versus renting a appartment.
- p0rky 8y agoSo you decided to not have a house or apartment?
- walrus01 8y agoIf you live in an older condo building with an uncooperative board, and physical challenges/long distances related to surface mounted conduit routing in the underground parking garage, it could be $8,000 of licensed electrician work to run a new 240VAC circuit to your single parking spot. edit: there are also a number of people who have street parking only. Look at any older neighborhood, it could range from Queen Anne hill in Seattle, to many parts of Boston. Houses may have neither garages nor alleyways.
- yuhong 8y agoOne of the things they did with the Model 3 was to improve the efficiency of 120V charging, partly for that reason. Trivia: In Canada, the CEC since 2012 requires a NEMA 5-20 outlet for EV charging at a minimum, and with the Model 3 6-7 miles per hour with it is not uncommon.
- walrus01 8y agoIt's still not going to be able to pull anything more than about 1700W from a 120V 15A circuit. Maybe slightly more efficient but the bottleneck is the amperage capacity of the circuit. Think of 120V charging as exactly like a hair dryer.
- yuhong 8y agoAFAIK for EV charging it is ~1400W for a 15A outlet and ~1900W for a 20A outlet (because the load is continuous), and the difference between the two for the Model 3 is probably around two miles per hour or so.
- sfteus 8y agoCorrect, assuming a dedicated circuit in the US, code dictates that it'd be 1440W and 1920W for a 15A and 20A outlet, respectively. Continuous loads can only pull 80% of the max circuit load. In theory, you could also run a 100% rated breaker to pull more power, but the car would have to be able to support it as well.
- dougmany 8y agoWe use 120 to charge our leaf. It charges at 4 miles per hour. Plug it in after a typical 40 mile day and it is ready in the morning.
- bluedino 8y agoSome government agency is likely to step in and make this illegal, right? Just like the FCC allows me to put up a satellite dish no matter what my landlord or condo board says?
- yuhong 8y agoAFAIK some states have such laws, but apartment 120V charging will still likely be the mainstream in the short term. Especially as apartment dwellers are likely to live closer to work for example, not to mention the cost if every parking spot had it (there is even power sharing with EVSEs).
- dsfyu404ed 8y agoDon't count your chickens before they hatch. The government already stepped in to make sure that you had to pay $8k for an electrician to get the job done (actually you're probably paying for the licensed electrician to send out an apprentice to to the job). It's all about who's special interest group hires the better lobbyist.
- yuhong 8y agoThe state laws I have seen don't dictate the exact cost, though there may be other issues like unions which applies to many kinds of electrical work.
- dsfyu404ed 8y agoI'm just saying that just because your side is "right" doesn't mean the other side doesn't have a better lobbyist.
- greglindahl 8y agoPalo Alto has such a law.
- Buetol 8y agoI decided that it’s better for me to rent for now mostly to be totally free of any loan. Also, I can optimize for lifestyle changes more easily (choosing to have a garden or not, living with more people or less, moving to a more luxirious or a cheaper condo based on my earnings,...)
- paulie_a 8y agoI recently made that decision too. I sold my car and now never have to worry about parking. Uber and renting a car is substantially cheaper.
- ddoolin 8y agoI see people say this all the time, but how is this possible? Do you work from home? I only live a few miles from work and Uber would still way out-expense a car payment, gas, and insurance...and even then, my car is worth a few thousand at the end, at least. Not that I've seriously pursued this angle but napkin math tells me it would either break even or cost more to Uber.
- Doctor_Fegg 8y ago> I only live a few miles from work Bike?
- ddoolin 8y agoSure, but I was talking about Uber vs owning your own vehicle.
- lovehashbrowns 8y agoI used to Uber in the morning and take the bus home in the evening. Came out to less than $350 a month, including the bus pass. Not sure how that compares to a car payment plus insurance and everything else since I've never owned a car. What I will say is that I was in a car incident while I was taking a ride share (competitor of Uber) and for me it'd be worth it just to not have to deal with the aftermath of something like that.
- drb91 8y agoWouldn’t the appropriate parallel be renting a car? A rented apartment has zero value next month if you don’t pay for it; meanwhile a car and an installed charger would presumably have some value next month.
- jseliger 8y agoCars depreciate, just like housing requires maintenance: https://affordanything.com/is-renting-better-than-buying-should-i-rent-or-buy https://affordanything.com/is-renting-better-than-buying-sho.... Housing does not automatically appreciate, though artificial limits on the supply of housing in some metros can temporarily make it feel as if it does.
- drb91 8y agoUnless you're talking about renting vs buying the car, I still don't see the parallel. "Whether or not I should rent this shelter" has little to do with any of the concerns of "do I need a car at all?"
- jsemrau 8y agoI just faced this issue of lease, finance, or mobility. I went for the latter since I don't want to go for the hassle of parking, fuel, and maintenance anymore. Further, I believe it's better for the environment.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- s2g 8y ago> As much as I want to support Elon Gotta pay your tithe to the cult leader. Maybe you can just send him a check for a couple thousand instead?
- ironjunkie 8y agoI think this is key. A lot of people got completely trumped on the supposedly low-price of 35k$. This is where the magical Charisma of Musk played so well. At the end of the day, it is closer to a 60k$ car than a 35k$ car (not even accounting for tax-money helping people to buy it cheaper). And if you really think about it, I cannot see how you can justify the model3 being worth 60k$ ! you got sold on a 35k$ car, and before you know it, you spend 60k$
- acchow 8y agoDo you mean because Tesla isn't yet building the base models?
- ironjunkie 8y agobecause the car will be so bare down at the sticker price of 35k$ that most people will take some of the upgrades (for things you would expect out of the box for other cars at that price tag). https://mashable.com/2017/08/01/tesla-model-3-true-cost-more-than-35000/#WKzyHnlBjsqO https://mashable.com/2017/08/01/tesla-model-3-true-cost-more...
- usaphp 8y agoBut it’s the same for all other cars. If you look at a base Audi or bmw, they are also pretty empty for their starting price
- johncarterjohn 8y agoThere aren't any mainstream cars that base at $35K and option for $30K higher. Name a make and model.
- Sohcahtoa82 8y agoNissan GT-R. Base is $99,990. Premium edition is $110,490. Track Edition is $128,490. Finally, there's NISMO edition, $175,490. With all the options, nearly $183,000. https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/sports-cars/gt-r/build-price.html#configure/A/version https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/sports-cars/gt-r/build-pr... EDIT: Of course, a Nissan GT-R isn't even the same market as a Model 3, so I'm not sure you could really use it as an example.
- chaostheory 8y agoEVs have lower maintenance costs than traditional cars. Over the 6 years I've owned a Volt, I've only had to take it into the shop a total of 3 times for oil changes, and another 6 times for general tire maintenance. The Model 3 should be the same. I'm pretty sure the Model 3 car charger is tax deductible as well. The only real caveat is that you need to own a house and most likely a garage, though I know there are many EV owners who have outdoor consumer chargers.
- jedberg 8y agoI was just talking to someone last week who installed a Tesla charger in the common garage of their condo complex, in front of their assigned spot. The condo hooked it up to the unit's electric meter so that they could get billed for the energy.
- cptskippy 8y ago> The only real caveat is that you need to own a house and most likely a garage Not necessarily. I own a Leaf and can make it to and from work (50 miles) with range to spare. I usually charge up at work, at cost, just to have that extra mileage for incidental need after work since I don't have L2 at home. It costs about $30 a month for me to do that which is less than 1/4 what I use to pay in gas. I work in downtown Atlanta and many work places offer free charging stations. There are plenty of DC Fast Chargers around the metro area in convenient places like grocery stores where you spent 15+ minutes or more shopping. With a higher range EV, like a Tesla, I think it would be pretty easy to get by without ever charging at home.
- mikepurvis 8y agoIn most climates, you really do need a garage. I'm in southern Ontario, and we have neighbours with an electric Soul. They really like it, but they do have to do all kinds of goofy hacks to deal with the charger getting iced into the car on winter nights— stuff like wrapping a towel around the handle and then pouring a warm kettle over it.
- hn_throwaway_99 8y agoI recently bought a used Volt, and man do I think it's such a shame this car gets so much less press than Tesla. I think it's a great car, and when you think about it, it's a much better fit for the majority of people's lifestyles. My commute is short enough so that I rarely need to use gas. One tank has lasted me 3 months so far and I haven't even used half the tank yet. However, it's great knowing that I can use it when needed, and thus I never get "range anxiety". Also, since the electric range on my Volt is 40 miles, I didn't need to install any special electrical equipment. I just charge it on a normal 110 volt outlet (I set the charging to 12 amps which is fine on this outlet because it's the only thing on it) and it easily charges overnight. I really do think the Volt merges the best of both worlds, and while I do think that all-electric is the future, for the time-being a plug-in hybrid is really a better option for most people IMO.
- pxlpshr 8y agoI think Tesla's are beautiful and have set the bar, but if you want a capable & cheap alternative, look at a used BMW i3. Resale value sunk for many reasons but has bottomed. <salesman>I bought a 2016 fully-loaded REX with 5,000 miles for under $25K, sticker was $58K. Factory warranty for 4 years, 8 years on the battery. Fastest BMW from 0-40mph. This thing flies for urban commuters. It comes with a charger that can plug into a conventional socket which can be nice for people who don't have the means to install a 240v. Fun to hack with BimmerCode to customize all sorts of stuff. My big complaint is the rear door system is awkward. It also rides a little high so I put 1" lowering springs and 15mm wheel spacers which greatly improved handling.</salesman> I'm also interested in testing the Jaguar iPace. By most performance measures, its beaten the Model X.
- duxup 8y agoOh man though a BMW without a warranty though... once it hits that... the cost of repairs has to skyrocket and resale has to drop like a rock.
- cornholio 8y agoIt's an electric car. They are usually reliable until the battery or drive train fails, at which point they can be used as excellent chicken coops. Things like brakes, body, electrics should be fixable on the cheap by regular non-brand shops.
- clarky07 8y agobut, but, the range :-( It's actually probably fine for most people, but I have a long commute and it wouldn't cut it for me sadly.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- dgzl 8y agoMy first and only question: have you never owned a car before? Your message makes me think you jumped into the decision of buying a new car without much thought, or a lack of understanding of what car ownership entails.
- hn_throwaway_99 8y agoBut he didn't really jump into that decision. He put down money for an easily refundable deposit, and then got his money back.
- dgzl 8y agoHe seemed surprised about general needs and maintenance of vehicles, or was I misreading his comment?
- Buetol 8y agoYes, I currently have a cheap diesel car (bought it for 1500€) and I planned to resell it when my tesla would arrive. Nonetheless, I agree with you that it wasn’t well planned, but I guess is surely true for many other people whi pre-ordered out of excitement like me. EDIT: Also at the time I was earning 3 times more than now, making it an affordable option
- on_and_off 8y agoNot op but I used to own a car and I could not be happier about not owning one anymore. My daily commute does not necessitate a car, nor does grocery shopping. I have a boosted board for when I want to shorten my commute or explore the city a bit. I sometimes use Lyft or rent a car but the cost is ridiculously smaller than what owning a car would cost me. It is dependent on many factors, for example a job change might force to buy a car but right now it works extremely well for me.
- reb_00 8y agoCheck his resume. The charitable interpretation is that he put the deposit money down to motivate himself to make it big. The mean one is that people make things up.
- fullshark 8y agoBeyond that, it's just hard to commit to a huge purchase like a car 1+ years in advance. Once the day of arrival comes near it seems like there would be a lot of people who decide to get refunds for various reasons. I think the rate would be high even if things were going perfectly (which, to be fair, they are not).
- baybal2 8y agoI drive a moped, and I don't care =P