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Do you want remote code execution? Because that's how you get remote code execution. http://docs.couchdb.org/en/2.1.1/cve/2017-12635.html http://docs.couchdb.or

by tonyg 8y ago

Do you want remote code execution? Because that's how you get remote code execution. http://docs.couchdb.org/en/2.1.1/cve/2017-12635.html http://docs.couchdb.org/en/2.1.1/cve/2017-12635.html Map and set values are important for many applications. The fact that JSON doesn't have a way of denoting a map or set value (or anything else, but that's another issue) is a problem: it means there's no understanding common to all JSON consumers about what syntax denotes a map or a set. Shortcuts are taken, consumers disagree on the details, and the linked CVE is the result. Being able to reliably convey "this is intended to be a map", or "this is intended to be a set" is crucial for secure and robust interoperability.

skolemtotem 8y ago
That's really weird - why didn't they parse it into a map in the first place, immediately removing duplicate keys? This seems like more of an argument for automatic deserializer generation than it does for adding undue complexity to a serialization format.
- tonyg 8y ago
  Even that's not enough to save you in general. JSON deliberately (!) permits duplicate keys. It leaves it up to the implementation to decide how to handle them. And there are two (sensible) ways to add key/value pairs to a map: either keep the first occurrence of key X, or the last occurrence of key X. Some JSON libraries pick one way; others pick the other. Getting the two to interoperate is, as we see, not easy. It would have been better for JSON to forbid duplicate keys, or to specify a mandatory first-wins or last-wins policy. Then there'd be no room for error.
camgunz 8y ago
> Do you want remote code execution? Because that's how you get remote code execution. It's fundamentally not the case that any data serialization format without support for map and set values allows for remote code execution. This CVE was CouchDB's auth code not handling some edge cases in the JSON standard. Your argument that edge cases like this lead to problems is definitely a good one though. I'm more inclined to say that a lot of these kinds of issues are due to people thinking JSON is a simple, straightforward format when it definitely isn't -- and that's due to mostly two things: - It fits on a business card! - You can serialize/deserialize in one line in most implementations Serialization/Deserialization is something you should always pay careful attention to. Making it a one-liner and advertising it as such was pretty irresponsible.

by tonyg 8y ago

skolemtotem 8y ago

That's really weird - why didn't they parse it into a map in the first place, immediately removing duplicate keys? This seems like more of an argument for automatic deserializer generation than it does for adding undue complexity to a serialization format.

tonyg 8y ago
Even that's not enough to save you in general. JSON deliberately (!) permits duplicate keys. It leaves it up to the implementation to decide how to handle them. And there are two (sensible) ways to add key/value pairs to a map: either keep the first occurrence of key X, or the last occurrence of key X. Some JSON libraries pick one way; others pick the other. Getting the two to interoperate is, as we see, not easy. It would have been better for JSON to forbid duplicate keys, or to specify a mandatory first-wins or last-wins policy. Then there'd be no room for error.

camgunz 8y ago

> Do you want remote code execution? Because that's how you get remote code execution. It's fundamentally not the case that any data serialization format without support for map and set values allows for remote code execution. This CVE was CouchDB's auth code not handling some edge cases in the JSON standard. Your argument that edge cases like this lead to problems is definitely a good one though. I'm more inclined to say that a lot of these kinds of issues are due to people thinking JSON is a simple, straightforward format when it definitely isn't -- and that's due to mostly two things: - It fits on a business card! - You can serialize/deserialize in one line in most implementations Serialization/Deserialization is something you should always pay careful attention to. Making it a one-liner and advertising it as such was pretty irresponsible.