6 ms·

Exodus from GitHub, but just not to SourceForge

41 points by jonymo 8y ago

nimbius 8y ago
even if the peanut gallery is still out on whether this is a 'smart move' from microsoft or not, the point in the article is real. Sourceforge and Gitlab are both having serious issues keeping pace with the number of users moving their projects. gitlabs grafana instances are all but completely unresponsive as of this post. Timeouts and such from the web UI were rampant as of 0700am PST but they seem to be under control. If i were a gambling man, I'd venture this to be the worst decision Microsoft has made since they hoovered up Minecraft for six billion dollars only to be left to watch PUBG and fortnight run miles past it, and multiple open source server implementations show up.
- lgl 8y ago
  the worst decision Microsoft has made since they hoovered up Minecraft for six billion dollars only to be left to watch PUBG and fortnight run miles past it How is Minecraft in the same bucket as PUBG or Fortnite? Also, Microsoft bought Minecraft some 3 years before PUBG even launched. It has sold about 144 million copies and has 75 million monthly users. It's the second best-selling video game of all time behind Tetris. How is that a "worst decision"?
lalos 8y ago
I don't understand why the people have this huge team mentality. If this team does that, it wrong, if another does it it is ok. Google cancelled Google Code with no backlash, or at least not to this level. Microsoft is trying to save a vital company in the open source community that didn't even have a CEO or any path to profitability and people react like they are going to ban all projects that are not C#. Not only in tech, but elsewhere I see a trend of just following a herd mentality instead of judging every action by it's own weight or at least let it play out. Of course, if you are afraid have a plan B or backup what ever you see fit but we need more critical thinking in our daily lives.
- joering2 8y ago
  Or you know - use BitBucket that allows unlimited number of private repos for free afaik.
  - lalos 8y ago
    I love competition and choice, I'm not even a fan of Github but I see their importance in the game. I'm criticizing herd mentality and something bigger than where you host a repo. I'm asking for critical thinking and that is it.
- linuxps2 8y ago
  Google did face backlash and it wasn't to this level because its use wasn't nearly as ubiquitous
- superflyguy 8y ago
  This is an altruistic move on Microsoft's part? Puhleaze. And Google routinely gets beaten up for killing projects, it's just that nobody used Google Code.
  - lalos 8y ago
    I will have to disagree with that, back in the day I remember using more Google Code than Github. Maybe I was more into fringe projects that were not big enough and on Github, but in my personal experience the pain was felt when we lost a bunch of issues and documentation of the platform and not the code itself or the binaries. Plus, this seems like a strategy of Microsoft to win some brownie points in the open source community unless they see a huge money making opportunity that I'm not seeing.
    - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
      GitHub license was changed a year or so ago, allowing an unlimited license to use. I took down my personal repos when they announced (quietly) that. I saw the HN post about it. Lot of people just didn't seem to care much. I'm no lawyer, but wouldn't that mean now Microsoft has an unlimited license of all code uploaded to GitHub? That doesn't seem, ehh, good? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13597340 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13597340
superflyguy 8y ago
I don't think a single person is considering moving from GitHub to Sourceforge.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  No kidding. Sourceforge is the future of github, in the best case. Ads everywhere, binay spyware injected into your projects, etc.
  - TheChaplain 8y ago
    You are talking about the old Sourceforge, since their recent acquisition they've done a great deal to clean up their act.
    - mort96 8y ago
      Even though you're (probably) right regarding those criticisms, it's representative of how people view SourceForge, and serves to show that > I don't think a single person is considering moving from GitHub to Sourceforge. is true.
    - Voloskaya 8y ago
      If people want to ditch GitHub because of Microsoft's actions 10 years ago, you can be sure they won't forgive SourceForge last year's actions... Or that would be some pretty heavy cognitive dissonance.
      - loganabbott 8y ago
        It was 3 years ago, and completely different ownership.
        Voloskaya 8y ago
        Microsoft has a new CEO, and all major execs have been replaced. This is apparently not enough, so I hardly see how the situation of SourceForge is better in this regard.
Arubis 8y ago
Arguments about migration itself aside, using SourceForge as a destination would last have occurred to me about 15 years ago. Very puzzling title.
- throw_away2 8y ago
  It's like reading an article about how people don't use freshmeat any more. Freshmeat is apparently now owned by the same people as sourceforge and slashdot, so when they get that time machine back to 1999 hooked up, they're going to be rolling in the money.
loganabbott 8y ago
Almost nothing in this article is accurate. We’ve been doing everything we can to improve SourceForge and we did not hide anything. The writer has an axe to grind for some reason, and maybe his anger is warranted, but it's definitely directed at the wrong people. https://sourceforge.net/blog/introducing-the-new-sourceforge/ https://sourceforge.net/blog/introducing-the-new-sourceforge...
- mkirklions 8y ago
  >Removed bundled adware from projects Too late, already lost my trust. This was unexcusable to let happen years ago and was one of the scummiest things I experienced in the software world. I havent used sourceforge in years and have gone out of my way to avoid it. They cannot be trusted.
  - EthanHeilman 8y ago
    They need to rebrand. Saying "download my new project from sourceforge" is an easy way to get cheap laughs from developers. I'm not saying this to dunk on sourceforge, but to make a point that the brand has so much ill will, broken trust and baggage associated with it that the first step should be a rename.
- preinheimer 8y ago
  Having read some of the articles around the missing SVN commits it certainly didn't seem to me like SourceForge was being transparent (or "New"). Was there some big outreach after that incident I would have missed?
- mort96 8y ago
  I'm actually very genuinely curious: Why did you take over SourceForge and keep its extremely tainted brand, instead of starting something new? Usually, when someone buys a brand, they're doing it because there's some value attached to it, but for me at least, it'll take a lot more for me to try out SourceForge than a service with a completely fresh brand I haven't heard about before.
yodon 8y ago
This exodus is precisely why Microsoft bought github, and why Microsoft built VS Code, and why it is open sourcing .NET Core and why it is shipping Linux integration into Windows and all the other huge moves the company is making. They recognize they lost the hearts and minds of developers. They are fixing that. Not fixed. Fixing. It’ll take the better part of a decade and some people will never change. Five years ago no one would have expected Microsoft to ship an amazing editor on Linux and OSX. Its great to have such an amazing development team once again actively believing “developers, developers, developers” is the key to success. I can’t wait to see what they do with GitHub as they work to regain relevance and interest.
- briffle 8y ago
  Yet most of their other tools still don't work on Linux, and have no public roadmap to, or any kind of comments on.. I'm waiting on my MS Teams client.... I can understand the older software, that might have lots of history, legacy libraries, etc, but Teams is a brand new tool they are just releasing.. They have a chrome plugin, but it requires you install an MSI.
  - briffle 8y ago
    Sorry, to clarify my frustration, the windows client for Teams is an electron based application.
  - zgramana 8y ago
    It works great on macOS. ;) Support for a tertiary platform (in terms of addressable market share) like Linux desktops comes much later in this kind of product’s maturation. Teams needs to first gain wider enterprise adoption on Windows and macOS first before they will look at allocating resources to additional platforms. Better off sticking with Slack on Linux until then.
prdonahue 8y ago
"Microsoft bought GitHub? Let's move everything to SourceForge!" -- said no developer, ever.
hungerstrike 8y ago
How can we actually quantify this alleged exodus? I'd like to see which projects are moving.
grolimpio 8y ago
I'm not sure if this will be good or bad for GitHub in the long run (it might actually bring some benefits to GitHub users, by adding more free services, e.g. free private repository), but still, Microsoft as a corporation is not open source friendly, as far as I know, the company still operates its own in-house patent troll and targeting open source related projects/services. This is an old article, but I don't think a lot has changed since then: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/05/28/100033867/index.htm?source=yahoo_quote http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/... If anyone knows if they have stopped making money suing or making dodge deals with Linux/Android vendors, I'd love to know, if so, I'd start to believe that they, as a corporation, are becoming more open source friendly. There is a big difference in buying patents for the company's own protection, and buying patents for making money trolling other companies. And unfortunately M$ is on the second group, making money as a patent troll.

41 points by jonymo 8y ago

even if the peanut gallery is still out on whether this is a 'smart move' from microsoft or not, the point in the article is real. Sourceforge and Gitlab are both having serious issues keeping pace with the number of users moving their projects. gitlabs grafana instances are all but completely unresponsive as of this post. Timeouts and such from the web UI were rampant as of 0700am PST but they seem to be under control. If i were a gambling man, I'd venture this to be the worst decision Microsoft has made since they hoovered up Minecraft for six billion dollars only to be left to watch PUBG and fortnight run miles past it, and multiple open source server implementations show up.

lgl 8y ago
the worst decision Microsoft has made since they hoovered up Minecraft for six billion dollars only to be left to watch PUBG and fortnight run miles past it How is Minecraft in the same bucket as PUBG or Fortnite? Also, Microsoft bought Minecraft some 3 years before PUBG even launched. It has sold about 144 million copies and has 75 million monthly users. It's the second best-selling video game of all time behind Tetris. How is that a "worst decision"?

lalos 8y ago

I don't understand why the people have this huge team mentality. If this team does that, it wrong, if another does it it is ok. Google cancelled Google Code with no backlash, or at least not to this level. Microsoft is trying to save a vital company in the open source community that didn't even have a CEO or any path to profitability and people react like they are going to ban all projects that are not C#. Not only in tech, but elsewhere I see a trend of just following a herd mentality instead of judging every action by it's own weight or at least let it play out. Of course, if you are afraid have a plan B or backup what ever you see fit but we need more critical thinking in our daily lives.

joering2 8y ago
Or you know - use BitBucket that allows unlimited number of private repos for free afaik.
- lalos 8y ago
  I love competition and choice, I'm not even a fan of Github but I see their importance in the game. I'm criticizing herd mentality and something bigger than where you host a repo. I'm asking for critical thinking and that is it.
linuxps2 8y ago
Google did face backlash and it wasn't to this level because its use wasn't nearly as ubiquitous
superflyguy 8y ago
This is an altruistic move on Microsoft's part? Puhleaze. And Google routinely gets beaten up for killing projects, it's just that nobody used Google Code.
- lalos 8y ago
  I will have to disagree with that, back in the day I remember using more Google Code than Github. Maybe I was more into fringe projects that were not big enough and on Github, but in my personal experience the pain was felt when we lost a bunch of issues and documentation of the platform and not the code itself or the binaries. Plus, this seems like a strategy of Microsoft to win some brownie points in the open source community unless they see a huge money making opportunity that I'm not seeing.
  - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
    GitHub license was changed a year or so ago, allowing an unlimited license to use. I took down my personal repos when they announced (quietly) that. I saw the HN post about it. Lot of people just didn't seem to care much. I'm no lawyer, but wouldn't that mean now Microsoft has an unlimited license of all code uploaded to GitHub? That doesn't seem, ehh, good? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13597340 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13597340

superflyguy 8y ago

I don't think a single person is considering moving from GitHub to Sourceforge.

craftyguy 8y ago
No kidding. Sourceforge is the future of github, in the best case. Ads everywhere, binay spyware injected into your projects, etc.
- TheChaplain 8y ago
  You are talking about the old Sourceforge, since their recent acquisition they've done a great deal to clean up their act.
  - mort96 8y ago
    Even though you're (probably) right regarding those criticisms, it's representative of how people view SourceForge, and serves to show that > I don't think a single person is considering moving from GitHub to Sourceforge. is true.
  - Voloskaya 8y ago
    If people want to ditch GitHub because of Microsoft's actions 10 years ago, you can be sure they won't forgive SourceForge last year's actions... Or that would be some pretty heavy cognitive dissonance.
    - loganabbott 8y ago
      It was 3 years ago, and completely different ownership.
      - Voloskaya 8y ago
        Microsoft has a new CEO, and all major execs have been replaced. This is apparently not enough, so I hardly see how the situation of SourceForge is better in this regard.

Arubis 8y ago

Arguments about migration itself aside, using SourceForge as a destination would last have occurred to me about 15 years ago. Very puzzling title.

throw_away2 8y ago
It's like reading an article about how people don't use freshmeat any more. Freshmeat is apparently now owned by the same people as sourceforge and slashdot, so when they get that time machine back to 1999 hooked up, they're going to be rolling in the money.

loganabbott 8y ago

Almost nothing in this article is accurate. We’ve been doing everything we can to improve SourceForge and we did not hide anything. The writer has an axe to grind for some reason, and maybe his anger is warranted, but it's definitely directed at the wrong people. https://sourceforge.net/blog/introducing-the-new-sourceforge/ https://sourceforge.net/blog/introducing-the-new-sourceforge...

mkirklions 8y ago
>Removed bundled adware from projects Too late, already lost my trust. This was unexcusable to let happen years ago and was one of the scummiest things I experienced in the software world. I havent used sourceforge in years and have gone out of my way to avoid it. They cannot be trusted.
- EthanHeilman 8y ago
  They need to rebrand. Saying "download my new project from sourceforge" is an easy way to get cheap laughs from developers. I'm not saying this to dunk on sourceforge, but to make a point that the brand has so much ill will, broken trust and baggage associated with it that the first step should be a rename.
preinheimer 8y ago
Having read some of the articles around the missing SVN commits it certainly didn't seem to me like SourceForge was being transparent (or "New"). Was there some big outreach after that incident I would have missed?
mort96 8y ago
I'm actually very genuinely curious: Why did you take over SourceForge and keep its extremely tainted brand, instead of starting something new? Usually, when someone buys a brand, they're doing it because there's some value attached to it, but for me at least, it'll take a lot more for me to try out SourceForge than a service with a completely fresh brand I haven't heard about before.

yodon 8y ago

This exodus is precisely why Microsoft bought github, and why Microsoft built VS Code, and why it is open sourcing .NET Core and why it is shipping Linux integration into Windows and all the other huge moves the company is making. They recognize they lost the hearts and minds of developers. They are fixing that. Not fixed. Fixing. It’ll take the better part of a decade and some people will never change. Five years ago no one would have expected Microsoft to ship an amazing editor on Linux and OSX. Its great to have such an amazing development team once again actively believing “developers, developers, developers” is the key to success. I can’t wait to see what they do with GitHub as they work to regain relevance and interest.

briffle 8y ago
Yet most of their other tools still don't work on Linux, and have no public roadmap to, or any kind of comments on.. I'm waiting on my MS Teams client.... I can understand the older software, that might have lots of history, legacy libraries, etc, but Teams is a brand new tool they are just releasing.. They have a chrome plugin, but it requires you install an MSI.
- briffle 8y ago
  Sorry, to clarify my frustration, the windows client for Teams is an electron based application.
- zgramana 8y ago
  It works great on macOS. ;) Support for a tertiary platform (in terms of addressable market share) like Linux desktops comes much later in this kind of product’s maturation. Teams needs to first gain wider enterprise adoption on Windows and macOS first before they will look at allocating resources to additional platforms. Better off sticking with Slack on Linux until then.

prdonahue 8y ago

"Microsoft bought GitHub? Let's move everything to SourceForge!" -- said no developer, ever.

hungerstrike 8y ago

How can we actually quantify this alleged exodus? I'd like to see which projects are moving.

grolimpio 8y ago

I'm not sure if this will be good or bad for GitHub in the long run (it might actually bring some benefits to GitHub users, by adding more free services, e.g. free private repository), but still, Microsoft as a corporation is not open source friendly, as far as I know, the company still operates its own in-house patent troll and targeting open source related projects/services. This is an old article, but I don't think a lot has changed since then: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/05/28/100033867/index.htm?source=yahoo_quote http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/... If anyone knows if they have stopped making money suing or making dodge deals with Linux/Android vendors, I'd love to know, if so, I'd start to believe that they, as a corporation, are becoming more open source friendly. There is a big difference in buying patents for the company's own protection, and buying patents for making money trolling other companies. And unfortunately M$ is on the second group, making money as a patent troll.