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It’s a miserable hell hole where I make twice as much money as would be possible anywhere else on earth. So long as that’s the case, I can’t logically move anyw
by aphextron 8y ago
It’s a miserable hell hole where I make twice as much money as would be possible anywhere else on earth. So long as that’s the case, I can’t logically move anywhere else or do anything for fear of regret, missing opportunity, and going broke. I think that’s what keeps a lot of people here.
- tw1010 8y ago"logically"
- pedrocr 8y agoHow much of that doubling in pay gets gobbled up by the insane prices?
- voltagex_ 8y agoHow much have you got left after paying your bills though? When I ran the numbers, it wasn't worth me moving to the US.
- travbrack 8y agoWhat makes it so miserable?
- ggregoire 8y agoWhat do you plan to do with all this money? I’m probably making 4-8 times less than you, but still living very well. Paying $700 for a 50m2 flat with pool and gym. I eat out several times a week and can travel anywhere in the world once a year. And still saving half of my income.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- themagician 8y agoWhat everyone in the Bay Area with a decent income does: live a life of complete luxury but pretend like you are middle class because somone else makes more than you. Eat out for every meal. Never do manual labor of any kind—press a few buttons for laundry, food, handyman services, or transportation. Have “the best” TV, stereo, and home appliances. Or have children drive them around in strollers that cost more than an old used car. Subscribe to services for everything: diapers, vinyl, beauty products, clothing. Go out drinking and spend more money than a median income family spends on groceries in week.
- googlemike 8y agoIs this a joke?
- user5994461 8y agoI don't think so. That seems consistent with London too.
- googlemike 8y agoI've been in the bay area 18 years now. I am a software engineer for a major company. My life is far simpler than this. I almost never eat meals out, I do all my own grocery shopping and cooking. I don't own a car because my needs are simple (public transit / walk to grocery store, company shuttle, and Uber for weekends) so I guess the comment OP got that right. I live in a one bedroom apartment that I clean myself. Is this unusual? All my friends seem to be in similar situations.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- glibgil 8y agoMatches my SF coworkers so I have to say no
- closeparen 8y agoWhen parking costs more than a car payment, it’s cheaper to pay others to drive you around for the few trips not convenient on a bike or public transit. The splurge is being able to drive yourself. As a renter, you’re not allowed to work on your home and probably don’t have access to a washer/dryer. There are laundromats, but your cargo-hauling capabilities are severely limited, so unless it’s nearby you’re paying for cargo hauling one way or the other. Since transportation-with-cargo is such a clusterfuck and the local retail skews heavily upscale to afford the exorbitant commercial rents, getting most consumer goods delivered makes complete sense. No argument on the cost of going out so frequently, but cooking for one isn’t necessarily cheaper than takeout, depending on your local grocery stores. (Yes, you can be deliberate about picking cheap meals to cook). Living in San Francisco imposes different problems and different constraints than living in typical American suburbia; choices that would be exorbitant in one place can be efficient in the other.
- protomyth 8y agoProbably do the same thing my friends working the oil fields did: work hard, save as much money as possible, and move when done. Like programming, their skills translate fine outside the boom area.
- DannyBee 8y agoA lot of people (including me) have targets for savings they just want to get to before getting out. The targets for most people i know are usually achievable in <10 years.
- aphextron 8y ago>What do you plan to do with all this money? Pray to god that it's enough to at least not fall into complete ruin and destitution from an illness or unforeseen layoff. I think most people now, like myself, have practically zero social or financial support beyond what you can save for yourself anymore.
- chrissnell 8y agoHave you looked into remote work? If you are sufficiently senior and produce top-notch work, there are plenty of places that will let you work remotely at SFBA pay. For the cost of living in the Bay Area, you could have a condo in Telluride, or a nice house in a state like Montana or Idaho. Where I live (small-ish town Kansas), you would have a really tough time finding a house with a house payment as high as the typical rent on a San Francisco 2BR. You could have a beautiful, huge spread with a kitchen full of commercial-grade gear and a spa for a bathroom for that money out here.
- ajmurmann 8y agoThe problem with remote work is that you are incredibly dependent on your current employer. If your job disappears for some reason you will have a pretty hard time finding comparable work again. If you live in the Bay area or probably about major tech hub chances are you might find another job by just walking down the street and drinking coffee in the right place.
- kowdermeister 8y ago> you will have a pretty hard time finding comparable work again Why is that? The web is full of remote job offers.
- maskedSlacker 8y agoAnd full of people applying for them.
- kowdermeister 8y agoLike all other jobs?
- maskedSlacker 8y agoThere are a lot fewer people applying for jobs local to me than there applying to jobs that will let me work remote. By a factor of over 100.
- runamok 8y agoI may be wrong but twice seems a stretch. I have heard of companies for instance supposedly paying a 25% premium compared to somewhere like Denver. So say 100k in Denver is 125k in redwood City. Of that 25k you get to keep about 18k... So if rent is $1500 different that accounts for the delta. I just did a long bike ride through the redwoods and along the ocean. Doesn't meet my definition of hellhole... I probably will leave if I ever want to buy a house but besides that the area has a lot to offer me at least. I do have a problem that everyone not making 6 figures is being pushed out which is another reason I would go.
- umanwizard 8y ago[deleted]
- dman 8y agoDid not know that individual contributors in F/A/N/G were making this much. Are we talking Jeff Dean level outliers or does this apply in a wider setting?
- friedman23 8y ago$1 million is definitely an outlier but more than $300k (total compensation) is not.
- yulaow 8y agoWe need data to claim even something like this, especially for a dev position.
- friedman23 8y agoI don't have data to show you, I'm speaking from personal experience and I talk about salaries with my coworkers.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- jandrewrogers 8y agoAt least for software, Seattle pays just as well and with a much lower cost of living, giving tech workers the highest discretionary income in the country[0]. Per the study, it is $1500-2000/month higher than San Francisco. Anecdotally, this matches my experience. [0] https://seattle.curbed.com/2017/3/16/14942904/seattle-tech-workers-disposable-income https://seattle.curbed.com/2017/3/16/14942904/seattle-tech-w...
- foota 8y agoShhh, don't let them in on it :) But yes, the math is heavily weighted in the favor of places like Seattle with still bearable costs of living but with competitive software labor markets. edit: unfortunately we also have a very regressive tax system which makes it easier for developers.
- riantogo 8y agoIt is no secret. Just that most folks in the bay area don’t want live with the dreary weather there. I know several folks from here who couldn’t last one full year.
- usaar333 8y agoAgreed; I've seen many engineers in my company moving to Seattle for this reason. While it lacks the Bay Area's startup scene, you still have very good options with large companies. Other costs some may consider are weather and culture. I suspect the vast majority of the income gain is due to Washington lacking a state income tax. e.g. a single eng pulling $200k is paying $15k/year ($1300/month) in CA state income taxes and $0 for WA State. The tax code changes for this year only make it more true.
- starpilot 8y agoWhen you factor in cost of living, you'd be making far more in Austin: https://hired.com/blog/candidates/where-engineer-salaries-pay-highest-standard-living/ https://hired.com/blog/candidates/where-engineer-salaries-pa...
- aphextron 8y ago>When you factor in cost of living, you'd be making far more in Austin I was stationed at Fort Hood in Killeen, TX another lifetime ago as an army infantry recruit in the late 2000's. I know all about living in central Texas as a person of color. Unfortunately red states have become a complete no go zone for me to even consider living in 2018.
- throwaway080383 8y agoExactly why I've never seriously considered Texas. I'm white, but I still don't want neighbors who fly the confederate flag.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- uncoder0 8y agoFrom VA, Live in Austin for nearly a decade... have never seen a confederate flag on a house in TX... VA on the other hand..
- stevenwoo 8y agoI grew up and lived in Texas for 25 years in urban and rural areas. The confederate flag flies on cars, houses, college dorms/fraternity houses, inside of people's houses, moreso in rural but still everywhere in some measure. East Texas was probably the worst in terms of overt racism so it would be easy to miss unless the outdoor recreational opportunities there or driving to New Orleans was on your agenda.
- echelon 8y agoI make $250k total compensation in Atlanta, and the mortgage on my 2,000 sqft 2bd/ba condo in the city (and on the Beltline) is $2000/mo. I can run or bike to work, or, if I need to drive, it only takes 15 minutes. I work on exciting tech, and I'm not at all stressed. Atlanta has great food, amazing music, and is in the middle of a forest. (Google "Atlanta forest"!) There are so many places to hike and swim, it's glorious. The culture is so diverse here. We're a music capital, the new Hollywood, and major finance hub. We have a lot of really cool non-engineers to hang out with and date. (Nothing wrong with engineers! But there are a lot of different types here to mingle with.) Also, we have real barbecue. You can't get that outside the Southeast. :P Move here and help change our electorate. :) Cons: - Though we have four full seasons, no one knows how to drive in the snow in the rare event we get any. Our summers are hot and humid (only a problem if you don't like that), and our springs have a ton of pollen - seriously, more than you can imagine (Atlanta is a forest). - We lack decent public transit. But living within the city makes most commutes negligible. The Beltline (Google it) helps a lot too. The city is ramping up to spend more on transit, though.
- driverdan 8y agoHow are you making $250k in Atlanta?
- echelon 8y agoI work for a company based in SF. We have a remote office. My salary is $130k, but RSU grants bring that up to about $250k total comp a year.
- fjsolwmv 8y agoThat's a hugely unbalanced split. Is that your grant value or your best value after a year(s) of fantastic growth?
- refurb 8y agoMy question as well. If it’s “I got $50k worth of RSUs last year and now they are worth $150k”, that not earning $250k per year, that $150k plus a good bonus year.
- drdrey 8y ago"a miserable hell hole", really? Apart from the commute and cost of living, I happen to think the quality of life here is great.
- welder 8y agoI've lived in SF for a while... I would say it's better than every other city in the US... definitely not miserable: 1. Best weather, never too cold or too hot. 2. Can walk everywhere in the city, never need to own a car. Transportation here does suck, but it's still better than every other US city except NYC. 3. Have all the services, restaurants, trendy stuff to do if you want. 4. ~$250k base salaries prevent stress with buffer/retirement savings. 5. People who want to accomplish something move here. I haven't found another city with as many driven people as SF. That's exciting for me, but can also be exhausting sometimes. Every time I try moving away I always move back. Missed out on buying a house here, but the salary and life quality make up for it for now.
- cameronlpmoore 8y agoAgreed on all of your points. I've lived primarily in Miami and Atlanta. After being in SF for a couple of years I only wish I had moved here sooner. The weather is a huge factor for me, and the geographical beauty of the west coast is unparalleled in my opinion. I would possibly consider other cities such as Denver/Boulder, or Portland, but I'll definitely never move back to the southeast.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]