13 ms·

Barcelona residents used sensors to demonstrate high noise levels at night

111 points by okket 8y ago

trevyn 8y ago
I wonder what the second and third order effects will be of this type of enforcement.
rhn_mk1 8y ago
We hear the voice of those who live there, but not of those who visit. Both are likely to be citizens, it seems one-sided to give in to the demands of one group, and ignore the other. (Or perhaps both were listened to, but the article gave no indication of that.)
- 6t6t6t6 8y ago
  In a society, peoples rights are a lot of times in conflict. In this case, I imagine that the right of the neigbours to be able to rest at night superseedes the right of the visitors to have fun by doing "botellón" (dinking on the street) at night in a residential area. In any case, this is not special at all. Every European city has regulations about pollution, including noise pollution.
  - yayana 8y ago
    If you live in such a section, the noise is not a new phenomenon. Until recently, as people got older and had less benefit relative to negatives of living by the night life, they would move out of these areas, freeing them up and keeping the rents affordable for the next wave..
  - ghaff 8y ago
    Hardly unique to Europe. It's very common in American cities to see signs outside of bars in primarily residential neighborhoods reminding people to be "considerate of our neighbors" and other words to that effect. Cities tend to be noisy but that doesn't mean everyone should take an attitude of "There are sirens and noise anyway, so honk your horn and carouse at 3 in the morning all you want."
- msh 8y ago
  There are probably laws against noise pollution that the visitors was breaking with impunity.
_nalply 8y ago
I misread the title somewhat and now got a «bright» idea: Why not put noise-canceling loudspeakers on plazas? No idea whether this really would work, but I think we should explore a technical solution. Because people need a place to let off steam. A possible double win? Edit: I googled and found this: https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/87833/outdoor-active-noise-canceling-speaker#93420 https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/87833/outdoor-ac... -- it seems that there are limits of physics which make such noise-canceling loudspeakers infeasible. It's a pity.
- kristiandupont 8y ago
  Hah, my idea was "ok, so the sensors will shush people? Like play some audio? That seems a bit odd but maybe it could work?" Come think of it, this is not the first time I've gone through the whole evaluating idea-thought process and even sometimes reaching "I can't believe nobody thought of this before!" before realizing that I read something into a title that wasn't there.
  - ghaff 8y ago
    It's sort of been done. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mosquito https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mosquito Basically in areas where loitering by teenagers is perceived to be a problem, playing a high frequency sound tends to be unpleasant to them while older folks often don't hear it.
- buro9 8y ago
  Your edit got there before I did :) I live in a high-rise next to a motorway in London and at 3am I can measure the noise as 60-70db using a mobile phone noise meter (inaccurate but indicative). I investigated the feasibility of using my stereo speakers as noise-cancelling for the room... mics on the window sills and the speakers to reduce the noise in the room. I figured it would work well enough to remove the constant background hum of the road. I was wrong. It doesn't really work, and it is just noise upon noise. The best I've managed to do is hang materials inside of the windows (quilts, sheets) and have been able to knock off just under 10db of noise in the best case (when it's just the drone of vehicle volume rather than specific engines or sirens). The downside is that my high-rise is a high fire-risk tower block and I'm trading one life affecting issue (noise pollution) for another (fire risk) as now I have flammable materials inside my windows. Hard to know which affects sleep more, certainly the noise is the most real and present issue.
Zenst 8y ago
Kinda sad but the gist is that this went on for years and years and it wasn't until the people got support that they could prove there was an issue with noise. Nobody in authority listerned or even checked until then.
- bloaf 8y ago
  It'd been going on so long, I would argue that there is an element of "coming to the nuisance" [1] going on. That is, the situation is like people who move next to a farm in order to "get back to nature." Hey! Turn out it sucks to live next to a farm! Lets shut the farm down! [1] https://dictionary.thelaw.com/coming-to-the-nuisance/ https://dictionary.thelaw.com/coming-to-the-nuisance/
  - ghaff 8y ago
    I mostly disagree with the people who are arguing that late night shouting and general noisemaking is just part of the culture and people need to suck it up. But the farm example is a real one. The state where I live has "right to farm" communities, including the one I live in. On the one hand, it's some specific rules about being able to establish small farms. But it's also a reminder not to move out to this nice exurban/rural town and then complain about the smell of the dairy farm down the street.
    - DoreenMichele 8y ago
      Or the roosters crowing.
binnesjohn 8y ago
Lots of BBC news ? Nothing else to tell ? BBC is full fake news, no thanks.
baybal2 8y ago
Quite a number of ex-bloc countries ban cars exceeding sanitary norm for sound emission. My surprise upon my first days in the West was that no Western country seem to have them. During my stay in Vancouver I got to know well the people who were reving their lambos on West Georgia in 3am.
stevoski 8y ago
I live in Barcelona. It is a _noisy_ city. It is just normal for young locals to sit outside in plaças or on wide streets on weekend evenings, socialising, having a drink, talking loudly, and even sometimes singing. By evenings I mean the Spanish definition of evenings, which last until way after midnight. As a foreigner living here, I try to accept the noise as part of the culture, even though the noise annoys me. So it is great to read of locals actively campaigning to reduce noise levels. On Friday I was in the very plaça (Plaça del Sol) mentioned in the article with a friend, and it was crowded and loud. All the tables were full, people were sitting on the steps, and indeed all over the plaça. My friend said, "it must be bad for the residents". It is good to know at least one plaça in Barcelona is now moving the crowds on after 11:30pm.
- oriol16 8y ago
  Glad that you emphasize it's Plaça del Sol, not Plaza del Sol or Square of the Sun
  - mbroncano 8y ago
    Is that that in the funny dialect they speak? Why do people waste their time with that? After all, they speak the first or second most spoken language in the world, why bother with a dying dialect?
    - overkalix 8y ago
      > Is that in the funny dialect they speak? Catalan is not a dialect of Spanish, if anything it would be a dialect of Occitan. And seeing how condescending are hurtful you are trying to be I suspect you already knew that. > Why do people waste their time with that? It's the native language of ~5 million people. We learn it for the same reason Swedish people learn Swedish, Danish people learn Danish, etc. It's just the language we speak in our country. There is already a de facto international language (which is not Spanish BTW), and we also learn it.
- overkalix 8y ago
  If there is a particularly noisy group, don't be shy to yell at them "calleu d'una puta vegada".
woodpanel 8y ago
Kudos to the residents - but since this article is not just about BCN: > People may not want everything monitored and who decides and shapes this agenda is a big question for future urban democracy. That is actually my main problem with those fab labs: As collecting data becomes a means of power, the fabs are often an attempt to grab that power. I.e. the people running them are almost always heavily politically aligned towards one extreme of the spectrum and thus the labs themselves are ideological echo chambers (at least in my country). No wonder it produces agendas like these: > "We are trying to build a new productivity model for society, creating a new sustainable economy in cities where people can prototype and test ideas," Like this (an implied technical ability of the masses) is ever going to happen. Especially if the ones advocating it, are either shunning people outside their belief-system or "promoting" the ability with projects and agendas, no one outside their belief-system is even remotely interested in. Consider affluent neighbourhood residents going into these labs to print their own noise detectors because of their annoyance with the asylum-seeker-home next door. Not gonna happen. And since Detroit was mentioned: What if those youngsters in plaça del sol where the ones equipped with sensors?
jruz 8y ago
Or how to ruin a city, just move to boring neighborhood.
CamTin 8y ago
'Police now move people on at 23:00. Rubbish lorries, which had previously cleared up when the partygoers left in the early hours, have been rescheduled for the morning, and steps that provided seating for gatherers have now been filled with plant boxes' OK fine about rescheduling the garbage trucks, but is this really a success? A vibrant public space has been neutered by more intrusive policing and architectural changes that encourage people to stay away? I'm somewhat sympathetic to the people in these apartments, but if this has been going on for 20 years (and why 20? why not 200?) then property values should already have adjusted. If you're living here, it's because you made the calculation about the noise and decided to rent or buy anyway, or else you didn't, and why is that the City of Barcelona's problem?
- louthy 8y ago
  100% agree with you. Often the reason people move in to these areas is the lively bustling local culture. Then the complaints come which sanitise the area, killing its spirit. This has been happening a lot in London as the tide of gentrification washes in and sucks the life out of the local culture. A really sad state of affairs
  - narag 8y ago
    So you believe that local culture consist of a lot of people getting drunk and shouting? This has nothing to do with gentrification. Most neighborhoods that suffer this problem are working or middle class. Try doing that in rich quarters and see what happens. The problem started long ago, aprox. 30 years. You could open a "tavern" with very few permits needed (and limited hours) or you could open a "pub", that you must isolate and comply with many regulations, and you set your hours, no matter the council. Guess what many did and got a quick buck. Authorities turned a blind eye for the sake of tourism. When hours are enforced, people just go shop strong alcohol and drink in the streets. That generated a very bad problem years ago and there is a law against that.
    - louthy 8y ago
      If you move in to a noisy/lively area and then start making noise complaints, then in my opinion you’re the one at fault. If this has been going on for 20 years then it can hardly be considered an ‘unknown’ > So you believe that local culture consist of a lot of people getting drunk and shouting? Well done for reducing it with your prejudices, this is local cafe culture, which is very social. It isn’t only ‘being noisy and drunk’, that’s just a symptom. It clearly has a positive social cohesion story behind it too. And what you deem to be culture may not be what others do. But regardless, it exists and was there before you. So, what right do you have to get rid of it? Granted, if 100% of residents don’t want it, then that’s an argument to do something about it. But, a lot of the time it’s a handful of very vociferous residents that destroy what the majority want to keep. If I moved to an area with a noisy local culture and found I couldn’t deal with it, I’d move; I wouldn’t try to bring an end to that culture.
namlem 8y ago
I feel like they should have maybe subsidized soundproofing in the nearby buildings rather than ruin the nice outdoor space enjoyed by so many party goers.
kapauldo 8y ago
The nanny state wins.
chinathrow 8y ago
Noise is a permanent issue of our current times. Noise at day in huge open space like offices ("Just use headphones"), noise by night in urban areas ("Just use ear plugs"). Meanwhile research has shown, that you can't adjust or get used to noise - you might think otherwise but your ear and brain is doing the heavy lifting for you. "- We do not get used to noise, but our ears "filter out" unpleasant sounds and cope as well as they can with the daily exposure to intensive noise. - People are unaware of the damage caused by exposure to high levels of noise due to a lack of information. - The damage affects not only our hearing ability. It may also appear in the form of insomnia, tiredness, lack of concentration, lack of attention at work, lack of efficiency, and even hypertension, heart problems and digestive disorders." https://www.hear-it.org/we-get-used-to-noise- https://www.hear-it.org/we-get-used-to-noise-
- accnumnplus1 8y ago
  Yes. I get woken up by Heathrow air traffic at 4:30am. Bad. So bad.
ComodoHacker 8y ago
I'm curious, could they use their sensors and other stuff to build some active noise cancellation system for local inhabitants instead?
- chopin 8y ago
  Like, some buckets of cold water?
Giorgi 8y ago
That's kinda retarded. That place looks like touristy destination, you don't want to lose touristy dollars especially if you are Barcelona.
- oriol16 8y ago
  As a software developer with a vote to cast, I give zero f*cks about tourists compared to sleep quality
- kgwgk 8y ago
  What does “especially if you are Barcelona” mean? The economy of the city is not so dependent on tourism.
- enriquto 8y ago
  As a native of Barcelona (but living currently abroad), I would love if the economy of the city become much less reliant on tourism, and more in culture, science and technology. Whatever erodes the touristic attractive of the city for party-goers looks good to me.
DoreenMichele 8y ago
steps that provided seating for gatherers have now been filled with plant boxes So, the same policy of hostile architecture that gets used to try to be unwelcoming of homeless people can be applied to other demographics and other social problems. Color me not thrilled with this approach. I've just never had the kind of life that involved lots of alcohol and loud parties. So my admittedly biased tendency is to feel there is no tremendous value in fostering such things. But as other people have noted, this doesn't just impede loud carousers. It also prevents other kinds of just hanging out with people. The article notes that the nearby commercial development basically sold pizza and beer and suggested this was influenced by the nighttime activities here. It seems to me that trying to get more of a commercial mix in the area could help or otherwise try to foster evening activities other than drinking, hanging in the plaza for free and being loud. There was one charity that created a midnight basketball program to combat the problem of inner city youth having nothing to do but be troublemakers. It's not like you need to reinvent the wheel here, so to speak. There are examples out there for how to resolve similar kinds of problems in a win/win fashion that gives the offending parties something better to do instead of merely vilifying them.
- bigcostooge 8y ago
  Maybe the thugs should just go to sleep. It’s midnight.
  - civilitty 8y ago
    So all people hanging out at midnight in Barcelona, in a country known for having dinner as late as midnight, are thugs?
exabrial 8y ago
After reading, I chuckled and realized the title could have been: "Residents use Arduinos to tell at kids on their lawn..."
mlinksva 8y ago
I've been idly wondering whether there is a comprehensive "quiet community" standard like there is for a "dark sky community"? From my perspective the main noise pollution problem is fast moving cars, which have obvious fixes. People loudly hanging out in plazas seem like a more difficult problem, and not even something I'm all that comfortable with characterizing as a problem. But maybe turning down lighting could be part of the solution? Or are places people hang out loudly at already not lighted?
- degrews 8y ago
  I'm from Spain and all city streets and plazas have at least some lighting at night (enough that one can comfortably walk through the city at any hour of the night) and even the least lit areas are popular for people to hang out in. I do not think it would be feasible, desirable or safe to reduce lighting to the point where it would be uncomfortable to be hanging out at night. I might even predict the opposite effect: drinking on the street, although popular, is illegal in Spanish cities. Darker plazas would make it easier to hide drinking from the police, and could attract even more people.
  - mlinksva 8y ago
    Thanks for the perspective. I'm convinced darker streets/plazas is a non-solution (and note isn't really what dark sky protections are about: it's OK to illuminate down, just not up).
- closeparen 8y ago
  As urban soundscapes go, passenger cars are basically silent. Buses, trucks, trains, and motorcycles all make drastically more noise. Especially when the buses are operating their airbrakes and audible announcements, trains are blowing their horns as they crawl away from stations, trucks are accelerating and decelerating, etc. In other words, I couldn’t disagree more. It’s the slowest-moving everything-except-cars that make an unbearable racket. Maybe this is different in places with more prevalent diesel cars?
  - 8y ago
oever 8y ago
This is about the Smart Citizen project. https://smartcitizen.me/ https://smartcitizen.me/

111 points by okket 8y ago

I wonder what the second and third order effects will be of this type of enforcement.

We hear the voice of those who live there, but not of those who visit. Both are likely to be citizens, it seems one-sided to give in to the demands of one group, and ignore the other. (Or perhaps both were listened to, but the article gave no indication of that.)

6t6t6t6 8y ago
In a society, peoples rights are a lot of times in conflict. In this case, I imagine that the right of the neigbours to be able to rest at night superseedes the right of the visitors to have fun by doing "botellón" (dinking on the street) at night in a residential area. In any case, this is not special at all. Every European city has regulations about pollution, including noise pollution.
- yayana 8y ago
  If you live in such a section, the noise is not a new phenomenon. Until recently, as people got older and had less benefit relative to negatives of living by the night life, they would move out of these areas, freeing them up and keeping the rents affordable for the next wave..
- ghaff 8y ago
  Hardly unique to Europe. It's very common in American cities to see signs outside of bars in primarily residential neighborhoods reminding people to be "considerate of our neighbors" and other words to that effect. Cities tend to be noisy but that doesn't mean everyone should take an attitude of "There are sirens and noise anyway, so honk your horn and carouse at 3 in the morning all you want."
msh 8y ago
There are probably laws against noise pollution that the visitors was breaking with impunity.

_nalply 8y ago

I misread the title somewhat and now got a «bright» idea: Why not put noise-canceling loudspeakers on plazas? No idea whether this really would work, but I think we should explore a technical solution. Because people need a place to let off steam. A possible double win? Edit: I googled and found this: https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/87833/outdoor-active-noise-canceling-speaker#93420 https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/87833/outdoor-ac... -- it seems that there are limits of physics which make such noise-canceling loudspeakers infeasible. It's a pity.

kristiandupont 8y ago
Hah, my idea was "ok, so the sensors will shush people? Like play some audio? That seems a bit odd but maybe it could work?" Come think of it, this is not the first time I've gone through the whole evaluating idea-thought process and even sometimes reaching "I can't believe nobody thought of this before!" before realizing that I read something into a title that wasn't there.
- ghaff 8y ago
  It's sort of been done. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mosquito https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mosquito Basically in areas where loitering by teenagers is perceived to be a problem, playing a high frequency sound tends to be unpleasant to them while older folks often don't hear it.
buro9 8y ago
Your edit got there before I did :) I live in a high-rise next to a motorway in London and at 3am I can measure the noise as 60-70db using a mobile phone noise meter (inaccurate but indicative). I investigated the feasibility of using my stereo speakers as noise-cancelling for the room... mics on the window sills and the speakers to reduce the noise in the room. I figured it would work well enough to remove the constant background hum of the road. I was wrong. It doesn't really work, and it is just noise upon noise. The best I've managed to do is hang materials inside of the windows (quilts, sheets) and have been able to knock off just under 10db of noise in the best case (when it's just the drone of vehicle volume rather than specific engines or sirens). The downside is that my high-rise is a high fire-risk tower block and I'm trading one life affecting issue (noise pollution) for another (fire risk) as now I have flammable materials inside my windows. Hard to know which affects sleep more, certainly the noise is the most real and present issue.

Zenst 8y ago

Kinda sad but the gist is that this went on for years and years and it wasn't until the people got support that they could prove there was an issue with noise. Nobody in authority listerned or even checked until then.

bloaf 8y ago
It'd been going on so long, I would argue that there is an element of "coming to the nuisance" [1] going on. That is, the situation is like people who move next to a farm in order to "get back to nature." Hey! Turn out it sucks to live next to a farm! Lets shut the farm down! [1] https://dictionary.thelaw.com/coming-to-the-nuisance/ https://dictionary.thelaw.com/coming-to-the-nuisance/
- ghaff 8y ago
  I mostly disagree with the people who are arguing that late night shouting and general noisemaking is just part of the culture and people need to suck it up. But the farm example is a real one. The state where I live has "right to farm" communities, including the one I live in. On the one hand, it's some specific rules about being able to establish small farms. But it's also a reminder not to move out to this nice exurban/rural town and then complain about the smell of the dairy farm down the street.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    Or the roosters crowing.

binnesjohn 8y ago

Lots of BBC news ? Nothing else to tell ? BBC is full fake news, no thanks.

baybal2 8y ago

Quite a number of ex-bloc countries ban cars exceeding sanitary norm for sound emission. My surprise upon my first days in the West was that no Western country seem to have them. During my stay in Vancouver I got to know well the people who were reving their lambos on West Georgia in 3am.

stevoski 8y ago

I live in Barcelona. It is a _noisy_ city. It is just normal for young locals to sit outside in plaças or on wide streets on weekend evenings, socialising, having a drink, talking loudly, and even sometimes singing. By evenings I mean the Spanish definition of evenings, which last until way after midnight. As a foreigner living here, I try to accept the noise as part of the culture, even though the noise annoys me. So it is great to read of locals actively campaigning to reduce noise levels. On Friday I was in the very plaça (Plaça del Sol) mentioned in the article with a friend, and it was crowded and loud. All the tables were full, people were sitting on the steps, and indeed all over the plaça. My friend said, "it must be bad for the residents". It is good to know at least one plaça in Barcelona is now moving the crowds on after 11:30pm.

oriol16 8y ago
Glad that you emphasize it's Plaça del Sol, not Plaza del Sol or Square of the Sun
- mbroncano 8y ago
  Is that that in the funny dialect they speak? Why do people waste their time with that? After all, they speak the first or second most spoken language in the world, why bother with a dying dialect?
  - overkalix 8y ago
    > Is that in the funny dialect they speak? Catalan is not a dialect of Spanish, if anything it would be a dialect of Occitan. And seeing how condescending are hurtful you are trying to be I suspect you already knew that. > Why do people waste their time with that? It's the native language of ~5 million people. We learn it for the same reason Swedish people learn Swedish, Danish people learn Danish, etc. It's just the language we speak in our country. There is already a de facto international language (which is not Spanish BTW), and we also learn it.
overkalix 8y ago
If there is a particularly noisy group, don't be shy to yell at them "calleu d'una puta vegada".

woodpanel 8y ago

Kudos to the residents - but since this article is not just about BCN: > People may not want everything monitored and who decides and shapes this agenda is a big question for future urban democracy. That is actually my main problem with those fab labs: As collecting data becomes a means of power, the fabs are often an attempt to grab that power. I.e. the people running them are almost always heavily politically aligned towards one extreme of the spectrum and thus the labs themselves are ideological echo chambers (at least in my country). No wonder it produces agendas like these: > "We are trying to build a new productivity model for society, creating a new sustainable economy in cities where people can prototype and test ideas," Like this (an implied technical ability of the masses) is ever going to happen. Especially if the ones advocating it, are either shunning people outside their belief-system or "promoting" the ability with projects and agendas, no one outside their belief-system is even remotely interested in. Consider affluent neighbourhood residents going into these labs to print their own noise detectors because of their annoyance with the asylum-seeker-home next door. Not gonna happen. And since Detroit was mentioned: What if those youngsters in plaça del sol where the ones equipped with sensors?

jruz 8y ago

Or how to ruin a city, just move to boring neighborhood.

CamTin 8y ago

'Police now move people on at 23:00. Rubbish lorries, which had previously cleared up when the partygoers left in the early hours, have been rescheduled for the morning, and steps that provided seating for gatherers have now been filled with plant boxes' OK fine about rescheduling the garbage trucks, but is this really a success? A vibrant public space has been neutered by more intrusive policing and architectural changes that encourage people to stay away? I'm somewhat sympathetic to the people in these apartments, but if this has been going on for 20 years (and why 20? why not 200?) then property values should already have adjusted. If you're living here, it's because you made the calculation about the noise and decided to rent or buy anyway, or else you didn't, and why is that the City of Barcelona's problem?

louthy 8y ago
100% agree with you. Often the reason people move in to these areas is the lively bustling local culture. Then the complaints come which sanitise the area, killing its spirit. This has been happening a lot in London as the tide of gentrification washes in and sucks the life out of the local culture. A really sad state of affairs
- narag 8y ago
  So you believe that local culture consist of a lot of people getting drunk and shouting? This has nothing to do with gentrification. Most neighborhoods that suffer this problem are working or middle class. Try doing that in rich quarters and see what happens. The problem started long ago, aprox. 30 years. You could open a "tavern" with very few permits needed (and limited hours) or you could open a "pub", that you must isolate and comply with many regulations, and you set your hours, no matter the council. Guess what many did and got a quick buck. Authorities turned a blind eye for the sake of tourism. When hours are enforced, people just go shop strong alcohol and drink in the streets. That generated a very bad problem years ago and there is a law against that.
  - louthy 8y ago
    If you move in to a noisy/lively area and then start making noise complaints, then in my opinion you’re the one at fault. If this has been going on for 20 years then it can hardly be considered an ‘unknown’ > So you believe that local culture consist of a lot of people getting drunk and shouting? Well done for reducing it with your prejudices, this is local cafe culture, which is very social. It isn’t only ‘being noisy and drunk’, that’s just a symptom. It clearly has a positive social cohesion story behind it too. And what you deem to be culture may not be what others do. But regardless, it exists and was there before you. So, what right do you have to get rid of it? Granted, if 100% of residents don’t want it, then that’s an argument to do something about it. But, a lot of the time it’s a handful of very vociferous residents that destroy what the majority want to keep. If I moved to an area with a noisy local culture and found I couldn’t deal with it, I’d move; I wouldn’t try to bring an end to that culture.

namlem 8y ago

I feel like they should have maybe subsidized soundproofing in the nearby buildings rather than ruin the nice outdoor space enjoyed by so many party goers.

kapauldo 8y ago

The nanny state wins.

chinathrow 8y ago

Noise is a permanent issue of our current times. Noise at day in huge open space like offices ("Just use headphones"), noise by night in urban areas ("Just use ear plugs"). Meanwhile research has shown, that you can't adjust or get used to noise - you might think otherwise but your ear and brain is doing the heavy lifting for you. "- We do not get used to noise, but our ears "filter out" unpleasant sounds and cope as well as they can with the daily exposure to intensive noise. - People are unaware of the damage caused by exposure to high levels of noise due to a lack of information. - The damage affects not only our hearing ability. It may also appear in the form of insomnia, tiredness, lack of concentration, lack of attention at work, lack of efficiency, and even hypertension, heart problems and digestive disorders." https://www.hear-it.org/we-get-used-to-noise- https://www.hear-it.org/we-get-used-to-noise-

accnumnplus1 8y ago
Yes. I get woken up by Heathrow air traffic at 4:30am. Bad. So bad.

ComodoHacker 8y ago

I'm curious, could they use their sensors and other stuff to build some active noise cancellation system for local inhabitants instead?

chopin 8y ago
Like, some buckets of cold water?

Giorgi 8y ago

That's kinda retarded. That place looks like touristy destination, you don't want to lose touristy dollars especially if you are Barcelona.

oriol16 8y ago
As a software developer with a vote to cast, I give zero f*cks about tourists compared to sleep quality
kgwgk 8y ago
What does “especially if you are Barcelona” mean? The economy of the city is not so dependent on tourism.
enriquto 8y ago
As a native of Barcelona (but living currently abroad), I would love if the economy of the city become much less reliant on tourism, and more in culture, science and technology. Whatever erodes the touristic attractive of the city for party-goers looks good to me.

DoreenMichele 8y ago

steps that provided seating for gatherers have now been filled with plant boxes So, the same policy of hostile architecture that gets used to try to be unwelcoming of homeless people can be applied to other demographics and other social problems. Color me not thrilled with this approach. I've just never had the kind of life that involved lots of alcohol and loud parties. So my admittedly biased tendency is to feel there is no tremendous value in fostering such things. But as other people have noted, this doesn't just impede loud carousers. It also prevents other kinds of just hanging out with people. The article notes that the nearby commercial development basically sold pizza and beer and suggested this was influenced by the nighttime activities here. It seems to me that trying to get more of a commercial mix in the area could help or otherwise try to foster evening activities other than drinking, hanging in the plaza for free and being loud. There was one charity that created a midnight basketball program to combat the problem of inner city youth having nothing to do but be troublemakers. It's not like you need to reinvent the wheel here, so to speak. There are examples out there for how to resolve similar kinds of problems in a win/win fashion that gives the offending parties something better to do instead of merely vilifying them.

bigcostooge 8y ago
Maybe the thugs should just go to sleep. It’s midnight.
- civilitty 8y ago
  So all people hanging out at midnight in Barcelona, in a country known for having dinner as late as midnight, are thugs?

exabrial 8y ago

After reading, I chuckled and realized the title could have been: "Residents use Arduinos to tell at kids on their lawn..."

mlinksva 8y ago

I've been idly wondering whether there is a comprehensive "quiet community" standard like there is for a "dark sky community"? From my perspective the main noise pollution problem is fast moving cars, which have obvious fixes. People loudly hanging out in plazas seem like a more difficult problem, and not even something I'm all that comfortable with characterizing as a problem. But maybe turning down lighting could be part of the solution? Or are places people hang out loudly at already not lighted?

degrews 8y ago
I'm from Spain and all city streets and plazas have at least some lighting at night (enough that one can comfortably walk through the city at any hour of the night) and even the least lit areas are popular for people to hang out in. I do not think it would be feasible, desirable or safe to reduce lighting to the point where it would be uncomfortable to be hanging out at night. I might even predict the opposite effect: drinking on the street, although popular, is illegal in Spanish cities. Darker plazas would make it easier to hide drinking from the police, and could attract even more people.
- mlinksva 8y ago
  Thanks for the perspective. I'm convinced darker streets/plazas is a non-solution (and note isn't really what dark sky protections are about: it's OK to illuminate down, just not up).
closeparen 8y ago
As urban soundscapes go, passenger cars are basically silent. Buses, trucks, trains, and motorcycles all make drastically more noise. Especially when the buses are operating their airbrakes and audible announcements, trains are blowing their horns as they crawl away from stations, trucks are accelerating and decelerating, etc. In other words, I couldn’t disagree more. It’s the slowest-moving everything-except-cars that make an unbearable racket. Maybe this is different in places with more prevalent diesel cars?
- 8y ago

oever 8y ago

This is about the Smart Citizen project. https://smartcitizen.me/ https://smartcitizen.me/