5 ms·

Microsoft seems like the only company that understands tablets right now. They should be more like computers, not more like phones. There's also a pretty great

by 013a 8y ago

Microsoft seems like the only company that understands tablets right now. They should be more like computers, not more like phones. There's also a pretty great argument that given all of our phones are absolute powerhouses nowadays, phones should also be less like phones and more like computers. I'm hopeful Microsoft can also move to spur on this change; maybe soon the market will be ready for the return of Windows Phone.

ce4 8y ago
I have an Asus Chromebook flip and love the form factor. It can be used in tablet mode (360 hinges) and runs almost all Android apps. Pro: cheap, physical keyboard, 10hrs runtime, lightweight Con: flaky touch, proprietary charger, mine needs a new battery, no gps
esturk 8y ago
It's only a matter of time for the convergence of phones and Dex like docking functionality. I'm actually surprised Google isn't exploring this area more because it will really kick up the versality of phones. I guess Google doesn't want phones to cannabalize their Chromebook marketshare.
- jbigelow76 8y ago
  I guess Google doesn't want phones to cannabalize their Chromebook marketshare. Android, Chrome, and ChromeOS exist as channels for Google to deliver its services, they are not profit centers in and of themselves (no license fee for Android, Chrome is a free download, ChromeOS runs on the cheapest hardware out there). Google would have no qualms about gutting the ChromeOS market if whatever replaced it offered a better opportunity to get their services in front of more eyeballs.
  - 0xFFC 8y ago
    Exactly. This is the core strategy for Google. And it makes sense, because google makes money from ads. Not android or chromeos
- freedomben 8y ago
  There actually have been a few attempts at "convergence," notably Canonical with Ubuntu phone. The reasons behind the failures are complicated, and IMHO haven't been proven definitively, but IANA expert in that field (just a consumer that really, really wants that). I only mention this because it's possible Google watch the others crash and burn and decided not to enter.
- dopeboy 8y ago
  This really needs to happen. I want all my state in the cloud. Whatever device should sink up with that state down to the desktop and window manager.
- imtringued 8y ago
  Phones aren't built for active cooling. Google maps turns my phone into a blowtorch after 30 minutes of usage.
  - Brakenshire 8y ago
    Phones should have a thermal output port just like they have I/O ports.
  - esturk 8y ago
    The dock can have cooling capabilities which is something that haven't been attempted yet. It can be similar to Laptop Cooling Pads. Just like when I put my phone in front of the air ventilation with AC on, it doesn't get hot even with mapping on.
- gehsty 8y ago
  I highly doubt this. I mean on a long enough timeline it’s only a matter of time until we are cyborgs with high speed internet access backed into our brains....but I cannot see any thing like Dex ever taking off. The user interaction is just horrendous. Maybe if it is wireless and never interferes with the users ability to use the phone for anything, it could work, but if the user has to ‘dock’ there phone I think it’s game over...
bitmapbrother 8y ago
Microsoft understands tablets? According to this chart their tablets don't even register. https://www.statista.com/statistics/276635/market-share-held-by-tablet-vendors/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/276635/market-share-held...
- eric-hu 8y ago
  Am I missing something? The table for that chat shows only 3 companies and Microsoft isn't among them. That doesn't mean Microsoft tablet sales are insignificant in comparison.
  - bitmapbrother 8y ago
    The chart shows 10+ companies of which only 6 are visible on the graph.
snuxoll 8y ago
> Microsoft seems like the only company that understands tablets right now. They should be more like computers, not more like phones. Apple finally seems to be getting the hint here with the iPad Pro and the iOS 11 update. The restrictions on what Apple will approve to be published on the App Store means it certainly will not be a traditional computer replacement at this time - but I'm comfortable saying I can actually get some work done it if I had no other computer available (I'm not going to be programming on the thing of course, but I can at least get through meetings, triage email, write documentation, etc.). > I'm hopeful Microsoft can also move to spur on this change; maybe soon the market will be ready for the return of Windows Phone. I can only hope, as a month 1 adopter of Windows Phone 7 and having stuck with the platform through Windows Mobile 10 I'm still pretty miffed and have little hope they'll manage to make a phoenix rise from it's ashes. Hell, my entire family had Windows Phones until it was painfully obvious it was going nowhere almost 3 years ago so we started switching to iPhone's instead as the need to replace or upgrade devices rolled in. I don't even think it's something silly like Microsoft doesn't "get" mobile, because I always thought WP was great at giving the consistent and (mostly) polished UX you'd get from an iPhone while presenting the choice of hardware the Android ecosystem allows. Personally the only reason I was the first to jump ship was because I wanted to access our work VPN without needing my laptop, but there was no AnyConnect app available for Windows Phone. The application ecosystem was barren, and I had no problem with that myself outside the aforementioned VPN app but without even an official YouTube app it's a hard sell to many. The current Microsoft store has an increasing number of Windows 10 apps available, but so much of it is absolute garbage that even Google Play is less frustrating to search. Microsoft knows how to build hardware, they proved that with the Surface line and did a decent job with the Microsoft-branded Lumia hardware too. They know how to develop a software platform, Windows is still king of the desktop and makes a strong showing in the enterprise server market, Visual Studio is touted by many as the best IDE (not my favorite, but it does the job fine so I guess I can see why they'd have that opinion). What they don't know how to do is develop an ecosystem, to get partners to WANT to develop for their platform instead of being FORCED to (basically any enterprise is going to have Windows Server deployed and admins on staff, Windows is the only relevant desktop in the enterprise market, .Net Core is nice enough but unless you're already a .Net shop there's not much reason to choose it over more mature ecosystems). Until they get that sorted there's no way Windows Phone will get rebooted again, it's dead.
notatoad 8y ago
The problem with Microsoft's attempt at convergence is that they're making Windows computers worse to make tablets better. And the other half of their convergence play - windows phone - failed completely. Making tablets more like computers is cool, but let's not turn real computers into tablets while we're at it.
TeMPOraL 8y ago
I concur. Windows vs. Android/iOS on tablets is one of the better examples of tools vs. toys. I'm writing this comment on a cheap Windows 10 laptop/tablet I bought second-hand for $120. It's an order of magnitude more useful than my brother's $500 Samsung Android tablet. Having proper OS on a tablet turns it from a consumption tool into a productivity one.
- digi_owl 8y ago
  The sad part is that Android could have been a tool, and the first gen of tablets were just that to many, but then Google fumbled, badly. The major fumble was that they restructured the storage permissions, making it that much harder to write to external storage from Android. Oddly this coincided with the introduction of movies and music to the Android Marketplace (later renamed Google Play). Ting is that much as with many Windows tablets right now, early Android tablets came with type-A USB ports. Thus allowing various devices, storage included, to be plugged in and utilized. But this quickly vanished on later generations once the storage changes came to be. Never mind that the UI of the tablet variant of Android was more suited for landscape use, clearly indicating that it was aimed at 2-in-1s as well as tablets. But then ChromeOS happened, and the focus shifted to it for courting corporate use (they even had Citrix on stage to demo logging into Windows remotely from a Chrome tab). Only recently have we seen renewed focus on Android for work. But this involves an "enclave" on phones for work apps, and getting Android apps to run on ChromeOS. Then again, Android was an acquisition. ChromeOS spawned from within Google's 20% scheme of "personal projects". I guess it has always been an ill fit within the Google corporate structure, and should probably have been spun of as its own company during the Alphabet restructuring.
kurtisc 8y ago
I've found Windows very frustrating to use on non-Surface tablets and somehow the tablet mode is even more so. IIRC, opening the on-screen keyboard makes you lose focus on whatever window it was you wanted to type in.
- kevingadd 8y ago
  How would the onscreen keyboard function if it worked that way? I don't think you remember correctly, and it doesn't do that. The tablet mode is weird though, I gave up on using it. :(
  - kurtisc 8y ago
    You tap an icon on the toolbar to open it which loses the focus. Then, once it's open, you can switch between the two without losing the focus. You could leave it open but then you lose half the screen to a keyboard without a number row.
superflyguy 8y ago
"Microsoft seems like the only company that understands tablets right now. They should be more like computers, not more like phones." Consumers are yet to get on board with this idea, though, as they're not very popular. Nobody has anything to learn about hardware or software from Microsoft. Samsung and Amazon are doing fine. I'm going to sell my £150 10inch Amazon tablet and get what? An expensive Surface thing? "maybe soon the market will be ready for the return of Windows Phone." Or maybe not.
swebs 8y ago
The problem is that nobody likes Windows, and most people will chose an alternative even if its functionality is limited like Android or IOS. Though I agree I would kill for a premium tablet with a proper operating system like OSX or Ubuntu.
gurkendoktor 8y ago
The downside is that being "more like computers" usually means "more complicated". iPads on iOS 11 have gotten so overloaded with gestures and other crap that I don't think I'll buy them for personal use and relatives anymore. I really think there's a market for dumb-but-simple media consumption devices that the tech "elite"/press doesn't appreciate.
digi_owl 8y ago
Funny thing is that the early days of Android tablets were just like that. Hell, Android was poised to get into the 2-in-1 market as well. But then two things happened. First Google expanded the Android Marketplace (later rechristened Google Play) to offer movies and music. Coinciding with this, Google redesigned the permissions surrounding removable storage, making them for most apps read only (making it that much harder to produce on a Android device and then store the results on a USB stick or similar). Second was now CEO Pichai's baby, ChromeOS. The path of it and Android beyond phones crossed, and Pichai was able to best Rubin. Thus we had a grand unveiling of ChromeOS where they tried to angle it towards corporate use, to the point that they had Citrix join them on stage to demo logging into Windows PCs from a ChromeOS browser window. And while Google tried in vain to sell ChromeOS as a corporate tool, Android languished. Only recently have there been renewed interest in Android beyond consumer phones. First with a "sandbox" for work apps, second by putting Android apps on ChromeOS.

by 013a 8y ago

ce4 8y ago

I have an Asus Chromebook flip and love the form factor. It can be used in tablet mode (360 hinges) and runs almost all Android apps. Pro: cheap, physical keyboard, 10hrs runtime, lightweight Con: flaky touch, proprietary charger, mine needs a new battery, no gps

esturk 8y ago

It's only a matter of time for the convergence of phones and Dex like docking functionality. I'm actually surprised Google isn't exploring this area more because it will really kick up the versality of phones. I guess Google doesn't want phones to cannabalize their Chromebook marketshare.

jbigelow76 8y ago
I guess Google doesn't want phones to cannabalize their Chromebook marketshare. Android, Chrome, and ChromeOS exist as channels for Google to deliver its services, they are not profit centers in and of themselves (no license fee for Android, Chrome is a free download, ChromeOS runs on the cheapest hardware out there). Google would have no qualms about gutting the ChromeOS market if whatever replaced it offered a better opportunity to get their services in front of more eyeballs.
- 0xFFC 8y ago
  Exactly. This is the core strategy for Google. And it makes sense, because google makes money from ads. Not android or chromeos
freedomben 8y ago
There actually have been a few attempts at "convergence," notably Canonical with Ubuntu phone. The reasons behind the failures are complicated, and IMHO haven't been proven definitively, but IANA expert in that field (just a consumer that really, really wants that). I only mention this because it's possible Google watch the others crash and burn and decided not to enter.
dopeboy 8y ago
This really needs to happen. I want all my state in the cloud. Whatever device should sink up with that state down to the desktop and window manager.
imtringued 8y ago
Phones aren't built for active cooling. Google maps turns my phone into a blowtorch after 30 minutes of usage.
- Brakenshire 8y ago
  Phones should have a thermal output port just like they have I/O ports.
- esturk 8y ago
  The dock can have cooling capabilities which is something that haven't been attempted yet. It can be similar to Laptop Cooling Pads. Just like when I put my phone in front of the air ventilation with AC on, it doesn't get hot even with mapping on.
gehsty 8y ago
I highly doubt this. I mean on a long enough timeline it’s only a matter of time until we are cyborgs with high speed internet access backed into our brains....but I cannot see any thing like Dex ever taking off. The user interaction is just horrendous. Maybe if it is wireless and never interferes with the users ability to use the phone for anything, it could work, but if the user has to ‘dock’ there phone I think it’s game over...

bitmapbrother 8y ago

Microsoft understands tablets? According to this chart their tablets don't even register. https://www.statista.com/statistics/276635/market-share-held-by-tablet-vendors/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/276635/market-share-held...

eric-hu 8y ago
Am I missing something? The table for that chat shows only 3 companies and Microsoft isn't among them. That doesn't mean Microsoft tablet sales are insignificant in comparison.
- bitmapbrother 8y ago
  The chart shows 10+ companies of which only 6 are visible on the graph.

snuxoll 8y ago

> Microsoft seems like the only company that understands tablets right now. They should be more like computers, not more like phones. Apple finally seems to be getting the hint here with the iPad Pro and the iOS 11 update. The restrictions on what Apple will approve to be published on the App Store means it certainly will not be a traditional computer replacement at this time - but I'm comfortable saying I can actually get some work done it if I had no other computer available (I'm not going to be programming on the thing of course, but I can at least get through meetings, triage email, write documentation, etc.). > I'm hopeful Microsoft can also move to spur on this change; maybe soon the market will be ready for the return of Windows Phone. I can only hope, as a month 1 adopter of Windows Phone 7 and having stuck with the platform through Windows Mobile 10 I'm still pretty miffed and have little hope they'll manage to make a phoenix rise from it's ashes. Hell, my entire family had Windows Phones until it was painfully obvious it was going nowhere almost 3 years ago so we started switching to iPhone's instead as the need to replace or upgrade devices rolled in. I don't even think it's something silly like Microsoft doesn't "get" mobile, because I always thought WP was great at giving the consistent and (mostly) polished UX you'd get from an iPhone while presenting the choice of hardware the Android ecosystem allows. Personally the only reason I was the first to jump ship was because I wanted to access our work VPN without needing my laptop, but there was no AnyConnect app available for Windows Phone. The application ecosystem was barren, and I had no problem with that myself outside the aforementioned VPN app but without even an official YouTube app it's a hard sell to many. The current Microsoft store has an increasing number of Windows 10 apps available, but so much of it is absolute garbage that even Google Play is less frustrating to search. Microsoft knows how to build hardware, they proved that with the Surface line and did a decent job with the Microsoft-branded Lumia hardware too. They know how to develop a software platform, Windows is still king of the desktop and makes a strong showing in the enterprise server market, Visual Studio is touted by many as the best IDE (not my favorite, but it does the job fine so I guess I can see why they'd have that opinion). What they don't know how to do is develop an ecosystem, to get partners to WANT to develop for their platform instead of being FORCED to (basically any enterprise is going to have Windows Server deployed and admins on staff, Windows is the only relevant desktop in the enterprise market, .Net Core is nice enough but unless you're already a .Net shop there's not much reason to choose it over more mature ecosystems). Until they get that sorted there's no way Windows Phone will get rebooted again, it's dead.

notatoad 8y ago

The problem with Microsoft's attempt at convergence is that they're making Windows computers worse to make tablets better. And the other half of their convergence play - windows phone - failed completely. Making tablets more like computers is cool, but let's not turn real computers into tablets while we're at it.

TeMPOraL 8y ago

I concur. Windows vs. Android/iOS on tablets is one of the better examples of tools vs. toys. I'm writing this comment on a cheap Windows 10 laptop/tablet I bought second-hand for $120. It's an order of magnitude more useful than my brother's $500 Samsung Android tablet. Having proper OS on a tablet turns it from a consumption tool into a productivity one.

digi_owl 8y ago
The sad part is that Android could have been a tool, and the first gen of tablets were just that to many, but then Google fumbled, badly. The major fumble was that they restructured the storage permissions, making it that much harder to write to external storage from Android. Oddly this coincided with the introduction of movies and music to the Android Marketplace (later renamed Google Play). Ting is that much as with many Windows tablets right now, early Android tablets came with type-A USB ports. Thus allowing various devices, storage included, to be plugged in and utilized. But this quickly vanished on later generations once the storage changes came to be. Never mind that the UI of the tablet variant of Android was more suited for landscape use, clearly indicating that it was aimed at 2-in-1s as well as tablets. But then ChromeOS happened, and the focus shifted to it for courting corporate use (they even had Citrix on stage to demo logging into Windows remotely from a Chrome tab). Only recently have we seen renewed focus on Android for work. But this involves an "enclave" on phones for work apps, and getting Android apps to run on ChromeOS. Then again, Android was an acquisition. ChromeOS spawned from within Google's 20% scheme of "personal projects". I guess it has always been an ill fit within the Google corporate structure, and should probably have been spun of as its own company during the Alphabet restructuring.

kurtisc 8y ago

I've found Windows very frustrating to use on non-Surface tablets and somehow the tablet mode is even more so. IIRC, opening the on-screen keyboard makes you lose focus on whatever window it was you wanted to type in.

kevingadd 8y ago
How would the onscreen keyboard function if it worked that way? I don't think you remember correctly, and it doesn't do that. The tablet mode is weird though, I gave up on using it. :(
- kurtisc 8y ago
  You tap an icon on the toolbar to open it which loses the focus. Then, once it's open, you can switch between the two without losing the focus. You could leave it open but then you lose half the screen to a keyboard without a number row.

superflyguy 8y ago

"Microsoft seems like the only company that understands tablets right now. They should be more like computers, not more like phones." Consumers are yet to get on board with this idea, though, as they're not very popular. Nobody has anything to learn about hardware or software from Microsoft. Samsung and Amazon are doing fine. I'm going to sell my £150 10inch Amazon tablet and get what? An expensive Surface thing? "maybe soon the market will be ready for the return of Windows Phone." Or maybe not.

swebs 8y ago

The problem is that nobody likes Windows, and most people will chose an alternative even if its functionality is limited like Android or IOS. Though I agree I would kill for a premium tablet with a proper operating system like OSX or Ubuntu.

gurkendoktor 8y ago

The downside is that being "more like computers" usually means "more complicated". iPads on iOS 11 have gotten so overloaded with gestures and other crap that I don't think I'll buy them for personal use and relatives anymore. I really think there's a market for dumb-but-simple media consumption devices that the tech "elite"/press doesn't appreciate.

digi_owl 8y ago

Funny thing is that the early days of Android tablets were just like that. Hell, Android was poised to get into the 2-in-1 market as well. But then two things happened. First Google expanded the Android Marketplace (later rechristened Google Play) to offer movies and music. Coinciding with this, Google redesigned the permissions surrounding removable storage, making them for most apps read only (making it that much harder to produce on a Android device and then store the results on a USB stick or similar). Second was now CEO Pichai's baby, ChromeOS. The path of it and Android beyond phones crossed, and Pichai was able to best Rubin. Thus we had a grand unveiling of ChromeOS where they tried to angle it towards corporate use, to the point that they had Citrix join them on stage to demo logging into Windows PCs from a ChromeOS browser window. And while Google tried in vain to sell ChromeOS as a corporate tool, Android languished. Only recently have there been renewed interest in Android beyond consumer phones. First with a "sandbox" for work apps, second by putting Android apps on ChromeOS.