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Anyone else have a problem with this? Someone else will be doing this work in place of Google, as it is inevitable that AI and defense will merge. So for those

Anyone else have a problem with this? Someone else will be doing this work in place of Google, as it is inevitable that AI and defense will merge. So for those reasons, IMO, it is childish to quit and try to not assert some ethical control over something while you can. Maybe the next co. who fills the contract will be the one where the AI engineers who quit now work? TLDR: Get the program killed, or control it on your terms ethically. Don't pass it off on the next highest bidder.

jdashg 8y ago
Is there an ethical approach to making drones better at killing people?
- dfsegoat 8y ago
  Yes according to the Red Cross, and experts in International Human Law (aka The Rules of War) - there is an obligation for people to develop these systems (or not) responsibly and TO ALWAYS KEEP A HUMAN IN THE LOOP [1]. Note Nov 2017 was the first annual meeting: the law on this is literally being determined on the fly, so simply running from it rather than providing input and working to determine limits isn't very helpful. https://www.icrc.org/en/document/expert-meeting-lethal-autonomous-weapons-systems https://www.icrc.org/en/document/expert-meeting-lethal-auton... https://www.un.org/disarmament/publications/occasionalpapers/unoda-occasional-papers-no-30-november-2017/ https://www.un.org/disarmament/publications/occasionalpapers...
  - sitkack 8y ago
    That has nothing to do ML and the statistical targeting of people based on behavior.
- CapricornNoble 8y ago
  Yes. Precision reduces deaths, overall. Do you know what happens when weapons are NOT precise? The military simply uses more of them, and a BUNCH of human beings end up "collateral damage" in the process. Applying AI to help sort "not a threat" from "threat" should result in the US dropping fewer Hellfires on wedding parties. Operation Meetinghouse, 1945: ~100,000 killed in 2 days https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo_(10_March_1945) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo_(10_March_194... Operation Rolling Thunder, 1965-68: 30,000-100,000 killed over 3 YEARS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rolling_Thunder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rolling_Thunder The numbers are all over the place for Pakistan drone strikes, but even the high-end estimates are <10,000 over the past 10 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_from_U.S._drone_strikes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_from_U.S._... https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/ https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/

jdashg 8y ago

Is there an ethical approach to making drones better at killing people?

dfsegoat 8y ago
Yes according to the Red Cross, and experts in International Human Law (aka The Rules of War) - there is an obligation for people to develop these systems (or not) responsibly and TO ALWAYS KEEP A HUMAN IN THE LOOP [1]. Note Nov 2017 was the first annual meeting: the law on this is literally being determined on the fly, so simply running from it rather than providing input and working to determine limits isn't very helpful. https://www.icrc.org/en/document/expert-meeting-lethal-autonomous-weapons-systems https://www.icrc.org/en/document/expert-meeting-lethal-auton... https://www.un.org/disarmament/publications/occasionalpapers/unoda-occasional-papers-no-30-november-2017/ https://www.un.org/disarmament/publications/occasionalpapers...
- sitkack 8y ago
  That has nothing to do ML and the statistical targeting of people based on behavior.
CapricornNoble 8y ago
Yes. Precision reduces deaths, overall. Do you know what happens when weapons are NOT precise? The military simply uses more of them, and a BUNCH of human beings end up "collateral damage" in the process. Applying AI to help sort "not a threat" from "threat" should result in the US dropping fewer Hellfires on wedding parties. Operation Meetinghouse, 1945: ~100,000 killed in 2 days https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo_(10_March_1945) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo_(10_March_194... Operation Rolling Thunder, 1965-68: 30,000-100,000 killed over 3 YEARS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rolling_Thunder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Rolling_Thunder The numbers are all over the place for Pakistan drone strikes, but even the high-end estimates are <10,000 over the past 10 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_from_U.S._drone_strikes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_from_U.S._... https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/ https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/