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Google Is Said to Not Renew Pentagon Contract That Upset Employees

75 points by Bhilai 8y ago

melling 8y ago
In capitalism, someone else fills the void in a profitable market. Will it be another large company or a startup?
- rhizome 8y ago
  Sure, let Palantir take it up, but there's nothing in this story that says Google won't sign a contract for a renamed initiative for non-protesting employees to work on. The article mentions a 4000-signature petition for the company not to work on warfare tech, but that's not what corporate is assenting to.
- Analemma_ 8y ago
  "If we don't, someone else will" is not an ethical get-out-of-jail-free card. Literally anything will happen in a capitalist market, if someone is willing to pay for it. Does that mean everything that someone will pay for is ethical and you shouldn't bother trying to abstain from it? If you want to be pragmatic about it, the fewer people who are willing to do X, theoretically the higher the price goes, possibly to the point where no one wants to pay to do X anymore. So refusing to do X is not just an empty gesture.
  - asdsa5325 8y ago
    > "If we don't, someone else will" is not an ethical get-out-of-jail-free card. True, but at the same time, "let's not do this" also isn't an ethical get-out-of-jail-free card. Google engineers can act all high and mighty morally, but guess what: it doesn't matter at all either way.
    - jonathanyc 8y ago
      What Google engineers are doing in this situation is strictly better both in the utilitarian and in the Kantian sense. Saying “it doesn’t matter at all either way” is a non-argument.
  - menacingly 8y ago
    I took GP as a genuine question posed without taking a stand on the issue morally.
  - caycep 8y ago
    Reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite movies..."Still Life" "Not my kind of money..."
- sheeshkebab 8y ago
  Google is one of the very few companies (and probably the only us gov contractor) that seems to actually have tech and skills to build capable AI. So, it’s a huge void for someone else to try to fill.
- godzillabrennus 8y ago
  It'll be a company that GV invests in....
- faitswulff 8y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if an Alphabet spinoff miraculously arose to take up the challenge.
gowld 8y ago
How does NYT software allow a backwards "smart quote" to get published? > ”So, we are working on it,
- deno 8y ago
  Unicode copy-paste
ocdtrekkie 8y ago
Existing discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17208892 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17208892
strainer 8y ago
This sends a more powerful message than if the corporation had just avoided the work in the first place. I am hopeful and inspired by the employees stand. Lights are shining through the cracks in the conflict dominated narrative of these times, and we have never had greater means to analyse and resolve our troubles with each other and with our environment. Thankyou Googlers for showing up for resolution.
- pascalxus 8y ago
  In the end, who-ever ordered that work is still going to get what they want. They'll just hire it out to someone else, no?
  - sjm-lbm 8y ago
    That's one of the strange problems here. It'll probabally get farmed out to a less technically proficient team which, ironically, could lead to an increase in the loss of innocent life.
    - anyfoo 8y ago
      That could be the outcome, yes, or the outcome could be entirely different. It could be that the projects gets farmed out to a less-than-competent contractor that is willing to work on it, with a result that is so spectacularly bad (along any given dimension, not just how many innocent lives are affected) that the project dies. That, too, is a complete guess and just one of many hypothetical outcomes. I don't think there is any sufficient ground to infer that "if Google does not do it, it will be worse".
  - komali2 8y ago
    Sure, but that's the same as "if I didn't torture them, if I didn't slaughter them, someone else would have," which has failed to be enough defense to stop war criminals from being hanged. Regardless of what comes after, you're never wrong to do the right thing.
  - kazinator 8y ago
reilly3000 8y ago
It seems like most of the commenters in this thread accept that military AI is inevitable, somebody will do the work. Could we collectively make a different choice? It’s a damn important choice to make.
oblong 8y ago
> could be used to improve the targeting of drone strikes They prefer inaccurate drone strikes that kill innocents?

75 points by Bhilai 8y ago

melling 8y ago

In capitalism, someone else fills the void in a profitable market. Will it be another large company or a startup?

rhizome 8y ago
Sure, let Palantir take it up, but there's nothing in this story that says Google won't sign a contract for a renamed initiative for non-protesting employees to work on. The article mentions a 4000-signature petition for the company not to work on warfare tech, but that's not what corporate is assenting to.
Analemma_ 8y ago
"If we don't, someone else will" is not an ethical get-out-of-jail-free card. Literally anything will happen in a capitalist market, if someone is willing to pay for it. Does that mean everything that someone will pay for is ethical and you shouldn't bother trying to abstain from it? If you want to be pragmatic about it, the fewer people who are willing to do X, theoretically the higher the price goes, possibly to the point where no one wants to pay to do X anymore. So refusing to do X is not just an empty gesture.
- asdsa5325 8y ago
  > "If we don't, someone else will" is not an ethical get-out-of-jail-free card. True, but at the same time, "let's not do this" also isn't an ethical get-out-of-jail-free card. Google engineers can act all high and mighty morally, but guess what: it doesn't matter at all either way.
  - jonathanyc 8y ago
    What Google engineers are doing in this situation is strictly better both in the utilitarian and in the Kantian sense. Saying “it doesn’t matter at all either way” is a non-argument.
- menacingly 8y ago
  I took GP as a genuine question posed without taking a stand on the issue morally.
- caycep 8y ago
  Reminds me of a quote from one of my favorite movies..."Still Life" "Not my kind of money..."
sheeshkebab 8y ago
Google is one of the very few companies (and probably the only us gov contractor) that seems to actually have tech and skills to build capable AI. So, it’s a huge void for someone else to try to fill.
godzillabrennus 8y ago
It'll be a company that GV invests in....
faitswulff 8y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if an Alphabet spinoff miraculously arose to take up the challenge.

gowld 8y ago

How does NYT software allow a backwards "smart quote" to get published? > ”So, we are working on it,

deno 8y ago
Unicode copy-paste

ocdtrekkie 8y ago

Existing discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17208892 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17208892

strainer 8y ago

This sends a more powerful message than if the corporation had just avoided the work in the first place. I am hopeful and inspired by the employees stand. Lights are shining through the cracks in the conflict dominated narrative of these times, and we have never had greater means to analyse and resolve our troubles with each other and with our environment. Thankyou Googlers for showing up for resolution.

pascalxus 8y ago
In the end, who-ever ordered that work is still going to get what they want. They'll just hire it out to someone else, no?
- sjm-lbm 8y ago
  That's one of the strange problems here. It'll probabally get farmed out to a less technically proficient team which, ironically, could lead to an increase in the loss of innocent life.
  - anyfoo 8y ago
    That could be the outcome, yes, or the outcome could be entirely different. It could be that the projects gets farmed out to a less-than-competent contractor that is willing to work on it, with a result that is so spectacularly bad (along any given dimension, not just how many innocent lives are affected) that the project dies. That, too, is a complete guess and just one of many hypothetical outcomes. I don't think there is any sufficient ground to infer that "if Google does not do it, it will be worse".
- komali2 8y ago
  Sure, but that's the same as "if I didn't torture them, if I didn't slaughter them, someone else would have," which has failed to be enough defense to stop war criminals from being hanged. Regardless of what comes after, you're never wrong to do the right thing.
- kazinator 8y ago

reilly3000 8y ago

It seems like most of the commenters in this thread accept that military AI is inevitable, somebody will do the work. Could we collectively make a different choice? It’s a damn important choice to make.

oblong 8y ago

> could be used to improve the targeting of drone strikes They prefer inaccurate drone strikes that kill innocents?