8 ms·

we have an overabundance of "green" energy here in California, yet energy prices are through the roof, we are looking at potential, rolling blackouts this summe

we have an overabundance of "green" energy here in California, yet energy prices are through the roof, we are looking at potential, rolling blackouts this summer, and we have to sell excess power to other states each month. why? well none of that green energy is connected to the public grid. with the wealth of energy, consumer prices should be zero. only that's not the goal of energy companies as they're all profit driven companies. meanwhile the CPUC is a corrupt as they come and haven't done anything to lighten the consumer's burden. that Clean PowerSF program? not voluntary in the sense you can opt out of it. you can choose how much more money you will be charged each month with that money going to produce clean energy. see the problem? they want us to pay for energy we can't even use and are hiding behind this clean energy program. as usual the consumer is getting hosed.

webkike 8y ago
can you provide a citation on the potential rolling blackouts this summer?
- Edrexlerr 8y ago
  https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2018/05/31/california-texas-heat-waves-blackouts/ https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2018/05/31/ca... (When did users on this forum get so lazy they can't do a google search?)
  - mdorazio 8y ago
    When did users on this forum get so lazy they can't provide a citation when making potentially bogus claims? The burden of proof should always be on the person making a claim, not the person reading it.
    - ams6110 8y ago
      Rolling blackouts in the summer in California have been in the news perennially.
      - bduerst 8y ago
        Yeah, isolated blackouts from a transformer explosion maybe, but not the demand-based blackouts from 2000-2001. In fact, California is now a model for other western states on how to fix your energy grid: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/08/scorching-heat-rolling-blackouts-the-west-is-changing-how-it-does-summer/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/08/scorc...
      - phil248 8y ago
        Only if they've changed the definition of the word "perennially".
  - epistasis 8y ago
    Doing a simple search only shows bogus data; rather than directly calling out the poster it's a bit more polite to ask them how they came to make that statement.
- vpribish 8y ago
  Here's the report from the FERC: https://www.ferc.gov/market-oversight/reports-analyses/mkt-views/2018/05-17-18-A-3.pdf https://www.ferc.gov/market-oversight/reports-analyses/mkt-v... relevant parts: “In Southern California, lower-than-average hydro generation may create challenges as natural gas-fired generation, the replacement for hydro production shortfalls in past years, may be limited due to reduced gas storage capacity and local pipeline outages in the region." "Limited operations at Aliso Canyon natural gas storage facility, plus state rule changes reducing the rate at which natural gas may be injected and withdrawn from storage, may complicate pipeline operations." the sky isn't falling. (the Daily Caller is a right-wing rag - Ann Coulter is a columnist, for chrissakes)
  - bduerst 8y ago
    Blackouts aren't mentioned once in that document. In fact, it looks likes someones slide notes in PDF form.
    - vpribish 8y ago
      exactly, FERC is the horse's mouth that that alarmist was posting about. The down-votes are mystifying since I provided utterly relevant data and observation about the source of the controversy. Guess its as likely to be progressives with poor reading comprehension as coal-staters upset I rained on their propaganda.
- dmode 8y ago
  Anecdotally, I have never faced a rolling blackout in 10 years of living here. And we generate excess energy, so would be surprised if this happens.
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    I don’t think they’ve happened since Enron was manipulating the market, right?
    - cjensen 8y ago
      Correct. Gov Davis made a series of expensive moves which rendered the manipulations ineffective. Enron was caught overextended in the wrong direction when the market shifted which directly lead to the end of Enron.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > Anecdotally, I have never faced a rolling blackout in 10 years of living here. There hasn't been a Stage 3 emergency (with potential rolling blackouts) since 2001, and nothing worse than Stage 1 (and only two of those) since 2007.
ihsw2 8y ago
Electricity prices are fucky all over the place and the general theme is there's more profit to be made in export rather than domestic consumption, which can result in ridiculous economies where energy is being exported at top dollar and imported at bottom dollar. The math is supposed to work out but, like you said, basically the overabundance of "green" energy doesn't do anything for domestic energy markets. It is implicitly earmarked for export consumption rather than domestic consumption. Energy managers get to reap the benefits twice, with both domestic and export prices remaining high rather than domestic prices continuously falling as supply comes online. The same song gets played out all over, throw carbon credits into the mix and things can get pretty silly pretty quickly.
- Gibbon1 8y ago
  I think that we we get for thinking Potemkin markets for electricity will magically solve problems instead of just create more ones. So instead of having issues due to political considerations you also have private players gaming the system.
ghouse 8y ago
Here in CA, you have three components to your bill: generation, transmission, and distribution. Adjusted for inflation, generation costs are going down (where true competition exists), while the transmission and distribution costs are going up. More information: https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuarhodes/2018/04/30/no-wind-and-solar-do-not-inherently-increase-electricity-prices/#261108897b8b https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuarhodes/2018/04/30/no-wind...
- reaperducer 8y ago
  * generation, transmission, and distribution* For those of us not in this space, what's the difference between transmission and distribution?
  - jorgen123 8y ago
    Generalizing/simplifying: Transmission is long distance - high voltage, think steel towers with wires. Distribution is from a local transformer (substation) where high voltage gets turned to lower voltage (12 kV) and then sent via utility poles to your home. Near your home there will be a utility pole with a transformer that brings the voltage down to 110. You share that transformer with a handful of neighbors.
    - FractalLP 8y ago
      Your answer is good. To add to it, the large "transmission" grid usually covers extremely high voltage lines: 115 kV, 138kV, 230kV, 345kV, 500kV, 765kV and up. It is managed by both utilities and RTO/ISO organizations that manage large sections like air-traffic controllers. Distribution is typically below ~100kV and is really more in the 11kV range and managed by the utilities almost exclusively. Building new transmission lines can be ~$1 billion projects.
- woolvalley 8y ago
  I have an acquaintance that works a PG&E, and he said something to the effect that the infrastructure cost for the electric grid is what actually costs money, and the actual generation cost is relatively negligible. The customer cost structure although is inverted based on generation, and not on grid fees. He also talked about how the CA govt uses them as a subsidy funding source and that can create a state where PG&E is close to insolvency sometimes. He also talked about the utility death spiral: https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/this-is-what-the-utility-death-spiral-looks-like https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/this-is-what-th...
jpao79 8y ago
The great thing about the consistently increasing price of natural gas generated electricity is that it makes the off grid green energy alternatives that much more attractive. Your best bet will eventually be to just go off grid by installing solar on your roof and use it all up during the day by either using it (laundry, dishwashing in the morning, heat/cool the house to the ideal temperature in the late afternoon before you get home - i.e. thermal battery) or storing it.
dmode 8y ago
Here's a great article that talks in depth about this issue. The key point seems to be that CPUC approved a lot more natural gas power plants than required and have to let the Utility companies operate them. http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-electricity-solar/ http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-electricity-solar/
tathougies 8y ago
> we have an overabundance of "green" energy here in California, yet energy prices are through the roof, we are looking at potential, rolling blackouts this summer, and we have to sell excess power to other states each month. why? You're absolutely right. Here in Marin county, you can opt in to using renewable energy, which my wife and I have. The public renewable utility rate is significantly cheaper than the standard PG&E rate. However, I am forced to pay more than the actual cost that the public renewable utility charges, because -- due to California state law -- my electric bill comes from PG&E, who -- despite not making the electricity -- has responsibility to charge the consumer. Of course, PG&E charges a 'convenience and distribution' fee that eradicates the difference in pricing between the renewable resource and their own electricity. Note that, if I opt in to using PG&E generated electricity, they kindly 'waive' the fee. Thus, despite the renewables being cheaper, I do not get the benefit as the consumer. I have contacted my state senator and representative, and they sent me back a form e-mail about how they are 'standing' up to PG&E. Give me a break.... this is something that is easily legislated.
- danans 8y ago
  > PG&E, who -- despite not making the electricity -- has responsibility to charge the consumer. Of course, PG&E charges a 'convenience and distribution' fee I understand your frustration that the amount of the fee cancels out the cheaper cost of renewables in your case, but providing local distribution has a cost (maintenance of poles, wires, etc) over and above the actual energy generation cost, so there will always be a fee for this, unless you figure out a way to get the renewables to your house without the local distributor (and assuming that you don't put solar/batteries on your house). Also, there is a cost (for storage, load dispatching, frequency regulation, etc) to turning the variability of renewables into the steady stream of available power that consumers expect. Again, it's possible even including the cost of all of these necessary services, the renewables should still be cheaper than the non-renewables, but it's never going to be zero.
  - frakr 8y ago
    Do you work in PR?
outworlder 8y ago
> we have an overabundance of "green" energy here in California, yet energy prices are through the roof I find Slicon Valley Power's prices to be reasonable. But they only serve a very tiny fraction of the population (Santa Clara, basically).If they can do it, it means the problem lies elsewhere.
- beamatronic 8y ago
  They are the best power company. Very reliable, cheap, and you can opt to pay more for green power. They are owned by the city of Santa Clara.
floatrock 8y ago
> that Clean PowerSF program? not voluntary in the sense you can opt out of it. It's opt-in-by-default for new accounts as they're rolling it out neighborhood by neighborhood, but you can still opt-out of it.
jartelt 8y ago
PG&E and the other utilities largely ignored a lot of grid maintenance prior to ~2000. As a result, not much was spent on maintenance and prices were pretty stable. The past ~20 years, stuff started breaking and they have had to put a lot more money into maintaining the grid. This cost gets pushed onto customers in the form of higher rates. Plus, energy demand has largely flattened, so the maintenance costs cannot be offset by selling more power.
- p1mrx 8y ago
  Electric cars should solve the "flattening demand" problem, but that will require expanding the grid to cover a lot more parking lots, particularly for apartment/condo residents.
wyattk 8y ago
With all due respect, but it seems apparent that you are not familiar with how electric distribution utilities work, especially in a deregulated state like California, how CAISO and its market mechanisms work, or how CPUC works. If you are a reader that is not well-versed in how the grid works, please disregard the parent's comment. I work in this space. I view this noisemaking as harmful to the public as they likely do not fully understand how the electricity delivery system (the grid) works, and this only serves to infuriate them and increase distrust.
- djrogers 8y ago
  With no actual details to back up your rather rude accusations against the GP, I'm not sure how useful this mini-rant really is... Care to lay some education on us instead of just hand-waving in a smarter-than-you manner?
  - jorgen123 8y ago
    To be honest, the GP's post itself reads like a rant and actually does not back up any of its claims. So while I agree that this post did not add value, neither did the GP. Funny thing with utilities. They are a sort of commons, yet always regarded as evil until proven innocent.
    - mr_toad 8y ago
      Most utilities are effectively monopolies. Evil comes with the territory.
      - jorgen123 8y ago
        And yet, how many utility poles and wires do you want in front of your house? I don't think we really want anything other than a monopoly doing our distribution. It would be much better for the perception if there were a clean split in the business of the utilities where the distribution monopoly does just distribution and nothing else. But I'm not sure if that would actually solve any real problems.
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roenxi 8y ago
I'm no electrical engineer, or Californian, but are you describing a situation like: Old System- Centrilised generation distributed over a wide network. New System - Decentralised Generation, distributed over a wide network. Without knowing any specifics, wouldn't this increase the expected traffic through the network from something like O(N) to no. consumers to something like O(N^2)? With an associated increase in required infrastructure and maintenance costs? Could be quite expensive.
FractalLP 8y ago
Just because there is a lot of green energy doesn't mean that everything is peachy. California also does a fair amount of importing as well during parts of the day with low solar. Also, just because you have solar doesn't mean everything is ok. The grid dispatcher in California (CAISO) has to make sure reliable power is available 24/7 for consumers and industry. This can be very challenging due to solar which is behind the meter (makes it difficult to forecast load) and can disappear quickly leaving you in a lurch. Vox has a pretty good video on YouTube on the infamous "duck curve" that you should watch. Essentially, you have a ton of behind the meter solar during the midday that suddenly disappears during the end of the day. It is difficult to forecast for this. You have to have other non-renewable baseload (gas, nuclear, coal, or maybe renewable like hydro)online to take the place of solar when it goes away....you're essentially paying for reliability in that case. Battery storage would work too in place of fossil fuels, but you would need a LOT of it, and we're not quite there. The economic dispatch that CAISO runs optimizes for the cheapest dispatch to meet load and reserves like the other north American grid operators like ERCOT, PJM...etc. That is essentially the market driving things along with CPUC decisions. If you're unhappy with how California is treating renewables know that California is on the bleeding edge in this area where more has changed in the past 10 years than the previous 80.
saas_co_de 8y ago
California is like a third world country. I used to work in Santa Monica in this beautiful extremely expensive office complex and yet we would have power outages on a regular basis. It is funny in a way, because it is so sad, that this supposed "high tech center" can't even manage to keep the electricity on or pave the roads.

webkike 8y ago

can you provide a citation on the potential rolling blackouts this summer?

Edrexlerr 8y ago
https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2018/05/31/california-texas-heat-waves-blackouts/ https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2018/05/31/ca... (When did users on this forum get so lazy they can't do a google search?)
- mdorazio 8y ago
  When did users on this forum get so lazy they can't provide a citation when making potentially bogus claims? The burden of proof should always be on the person making a claim, not the person reading it.
  - ams6110 8y ago
    Rolling blackouts in the summer in California have been in the news perennially.
    - bduerst 8y ago
      Yeah, isolated blackouts from a transformer explosion maybe, but not the demand-based blackouts from 2000-2001. In fact, California is now a model for other western states on how to fix your energy grid: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/08/scorching-heat-rolling-blackouts-the-west-is-changing-how-it-does-summer/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/08/scorc...
    - phil248 8y ago
      Only if they've changed the definition of the word "perennially".
- epistasis 8y ago
  Doing a simple search only shows bogus data; rather than directly calling out the poster it's a bit more polite to ask them how they came to make that statement.
vpribish 8y ago
Here's the report from the FERC: https://www.ferc.gov/market-oversight/reports-analyses/mkt-views/2018/05-17-18-A-3.pdf https://www.ferc.gov/market-oversight/reports-analyses/mkt-v... relevant parts: “In Southern California, lower-than-average hydro generation may create challenges as natural gas-fired generation, the replacement for hydro production shortfalls in past years, may be limited due to reduced gas storage capacity and local pipeline outages in the region." "Limited operations at Aliso Canyon natural gas storage facility, plus state rule changes reducing the rate at which natural gas may be injected and withdrawn from storage, may complicate pipeline operations." the sky isn't falling. (the Daily Caller is a right-wing rag - Ann Coulter is a columnist, for chrissakes)
- bduerst 8y ago
  Blackouts aren't mentioned once in that document. In fact, it looks likes someones slide notes in PDF form.
  - vpribish 8y ago
    exactly, FERC is the horse's mouth that that alarmist was posting about. The down-votes are mystifying since I provided utterly relevant data and observation about the source of the controversy. Guess its as likely to be progressives with poor reading comprehension as coal-staters upset I rained on their propaganda.
dmode 8y ago
Anecdotally, I have never faced a rolling blackout in 10 years of living here. And we generate excess energy, so would be surprised if this happens.
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  I don’t think they’ve happened since Enron was manipulating the market, right?
  - cjensen 8y ago
    Correct. Gov Davis made a series of expensive moves which rendered the manipulations ineffective. Enron was caught overextended in the wrong direction when the market shifted which directly lead to the end of Enron.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Anecdotally, I have never faced a rolling blackout in 10 years of living here. There hasn't been a Stage 3 emergency (with potential rolling blackouts) since 2001, and nothing worse than Stage 1 (and only two of those) since 2007.

ihsw2 8y ago

Electricity prices are fucky all over the place and the general theme is there's more profit to be made in export rather than domestic consumption, which can result in ridiculous economies where energy is being exported at top dollar and imported at bottom dollar. The math is supposed to work out but, like you said, basically the overabundance of "green" energy doesn't do anything for domestic energy markets. It is implicitly earmarked for export consumption rather than domestic consumption. Energy managers get to reap the benefits twice, with both domestic and export prices remaining high rather than domestic prices continuously falling as supply comes online. The same song gets played out all over, throw carbon credits into the mix and things can get pretty silly pretty quickly.

Gibbon1 8y ago
I think that we we get for thinking Potemkin markets for electricity will magically solve problems instead of just create more ones. So instead of having issues due to political considerations you also have private players gaming the system.

ghouse 8y ago

Here in CA, you have three components to your bill: generation, transmission, and distribution. Adjusted for inflation, generation costs are going down (where true competition exists), while the transmission and distribution costs are going up. More information: https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuarhodes/2018/04/30/no-wind-and-solar-do-not-inherently-increase-electricity-prices/#261108897b8b https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuarhodes/2018/04/30/no-wind...

reaperducer 8y ago
* generation, transmission, and distribution* For those of us not in this space, what's the difference between transmission and distribution?
- jorgen123 8y ago
  Generalizing/simplifying: Transmission is long distance - high voltage, think steel towers with wires. Distribution is from a local transformer (substation) where high voltage gets turned to lower voltage (12 kV) and then sent via utility poles to your home. Near your home there will be a utility pole with a transformer that brings the voltage down to 110. You share that transformer with a handful of neighbors.
  - FractalLP 8y ago
    Your answer is good. To add to it, the large "transmission" grid usually covers extremely high voltage lines: 115 kV, 138kV, 230kV, 345kV, 500kV, 765kV and up. It is managed by both utilities and RTO/ISO organizations that manage large sections like air-traffic controllers. Distribution is typically below ~100kV and is really more in the 11kV range and managed by the utilities almost exclusively. Building new transmission lines can be ~$1 billion projects.
woolvalley 8y ago
I have an acquaintance that works a PG&E, and he said something to the effect that the infrastructure cost for the electric grid is what actually costs money, and the actual generation cost is relatively negligible. The customer cost structure although is inverted based on generation, and not on grid fees. He also talked about how the CA govt uses them as a subsidy funding source and that can create a state where PG&E is close to insolvency sometimes. He also talked about the utility death spiral: https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/this-is-what-the-utility-death-spiral-looks-like https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/this-is-what-th...

jpao79 8y ago

The great thing about the consistently increasing price of natural gas generated electricity is that it makes the off grid green energy alternatives that much more attractive. Your best bet will eventually be to just go off grid by installing solar on your roof and use it all up during the day by either using it (laundry, dishwashing in the morning, heat/cool the house to the ideal temperature in the late afternoon before you get home - i.e. thermal battery) or storing it.

dmode 8y ago

Here's a great article that talks in depth about this issue. The key point seems to be that CPUC approved a lot more natural gas power plants than required and have to let the Utility companies operate them. http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-electricity-solar/ http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-electricity-solar/

tathougies 8y ago

> we have an overabundance of "green" energy here in California, yet energy prices are through the roof, we are looking at potential, rolling blackouts this summer, and we have to sell excess power to other states each month. why? You're absolutely right. Here in Marin county, you can opt in to using renewable energy, which my wife and I have. The public renewable utility rate is significantly cheaper than the standard PG&E rate. However, I am forced to pay more than the actual cost that the public renewable utility charges, because -- due to California state law -- my electric bill comes from PG&E, who -- despite not making the electricity -- has responsibility to charge the consumer. Of course, PG&E charges a 'convenience and distribution' fee that eradicates the difference in pricing between the renewable resource and their own electricity. Note that, if I opt in to using PG&E generated electricity, they kindly 'waive' the fee. Thus, despite the renewables being cheaper, I do not get the benefit as the consumer. I have contacted my state senator and representative, and they sent me back a form e-mail about how they are 'standing' up to PG&E. Give me a break.... this is something that is easily legislated.

danans 8y ago
> PG&E, who -- despite not making the electricity -- has responsibility to charge the consumer. Of course, PG&E charges a 'convenience and distribution' fee I understand your frustration that the amount of the fee cancels out the cheaper cost of renewables in your case, but providing local distribution has a cost (maintenance of poles, wires, etc) over and above the actual energy generation cost, so there will always be a fee for this, unless you figure out a way to get the renewables to your house without the local distributor (and assuming that you don't put solar/batteries on your house). Also, there is a cost (for storage, load dispatching, frequency regulation, etc) to turning the variability of renewables into the steady stream of available power that consumers expect. Again, it's possible even including the cost of all of these necessary services, the renewables should still be cheaper than the non-renewables, but it's never going to be zero.
- frakr 8y ago
  Do you work in PR?

outworlder 8y ago

> we have an overabundance of "green" energy here in California, yet energy prices are through the roof I find Slicon Valley Power's prices to be reasonable. But they only serve a very tiny fraction of the population (Santa Clara, basically).If they can do it, it means the problem lies elsewhere.

beamatronic 8y ago
They are the best power company. Very reliable, cheap, and you can opt to pay more for green power. They are owned by the city of Santa Clara.

floatrock 8y ago

> that Clean PowerSF program? not voluntary in the sense you can opt out of it. It's opt-in-by-default for new accounts as they're rolling it out neighborhood by neighborhood, but you can still opt-out of it.

jartelt 8y ago

PG&E and the other utilities largely ignored a lot of grid maintenance prior to ~2000. As a result, not much was spent on maintenance and prices were pretty stable. The past ~20 years, stuff started breaking and they have had to put a lot more money into maintaining the grid. This cost gets pushed onto customers in the form of higher rates. Plus, energy demand has largely flattened, so the maintenance costs cannot be offset by selling more power.

p1mrx 8y ago
Electric cars should solve the "flattening demand" problem, but that will require expanding the grid to cover a lot more parking lots, particularly for apartment/condo residents.

wyattk 8y ago

With all due respect, but it seems apparent that you are not familiar with how electric distribution utilities work, especially in a deregulated state like California, how CAISO and its market mechanisms work, or how CPUC works. If you are a reader that is not well-versed in how the grid works, please disregard the parent's comment. I work in this space. I view this noisemaking as harmful to the public as they likely do not fully understand how the electricity delivery system (the grid) works, and this only serves to infuriate them and increase distrust.

djrogers 8y ago
With no actual details to back up your rather rude accusations against the GP, I'm not sure how useful this mini-rant really is... Care to lay some education on us instead of just hand-waving in a smarter-than-you manner?
- jorgen123 8y ago
  To be honest, the GP's post itself reads like a rant and actually does not back up any of its claims. So while I agree that this post did not add value, neither did the GP. Funny thing with utilities. They are a sort of commons, yet always regarded as evil until proven innocent.
  - mr_toad 8y ago
    Most utilities are effectively monopolies. Evil comes with the territory.
    - jorgen123 8y ago
      And yet, how many utility poles and wires do you want in front of your house? I don't think we really want anything other than a monopoly doing our distribution. It would be much better for the perception if there were a clean split in the business of the utilities where the distribution monopoly does just distribution and nothing else. But I'm not sure if that would actually solve any real problems.

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roenxi 8y ago

I'm no electrical engineer, or Californian, but are you describing a situation like: Old System- Centrilised generation distributed over a wide network. New System - Decentralised Generation, distributed over a wide network. Without knowing any specifics, wouldn't this increase the expected traffic through the network from something like O(N) to no. consumers to something like O(N^2)? With an associated increase in required infrastructure and maintenance costs? Could be quite expensive.

FractalLP 8y ago

Just because there is a lot of green energy doesn't mean that everything is peachy. California also does a fair amount of importing as well during parts of the day with low solar. Also, just because you have solar doesn't mean everything is ok. The grid dispatcher in California (CAISO) has to make sure reliable power is available 24/7 for consumers and industry. This can be very challenging due to solar which is behind the meter (makes it difficult to forecast load) and can disappear quickly leaving you in a lurch. Vox has a pretty good video on YouTube on the infamous "duck curve" that you should watch. Essentially, you have a ton of behind the meter solar during the midday that suddenly disappears during the end of the day. It is difficult to forecast for this. You have to have other non-renewable baseload (gas, nuclear, coal, or maybe renewable like hydro)online to take the place of solar when it goes away....you're essentially paying for reliability in that case. Battery storage would work too in place of fossil fuels, but you would need a LOT of it, and we're not quite there. The economic dispatch that CAISO runs optimizes for the cheapest dispatch to meet load and reserves like the other north American grid operators like ERCOT, PJM...etc. That is essentially the market driving things along with CPUC decisions. If you're unhappy with how California is treating renewables know that California is on the bleeding edge in this area where more has changed in the past 10 years than the previous 80.

saas_co_de 8y ago

California is like a third world country. I used to work in Santa Monica in this beautiful extremely expensive office complex and yet we would have power outages on a regular basis. It is funny in a way, because it is so sad, that this supposed "high tech center" can't even manage to keep the electricity on or pave the roads.