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I love how some of the tech industry is beginning to see data as a liability rather than an asset. It dramatically reduces the ability for government mass surve

I love how some of the tech industry is beginning to see data as a liability rather than an asset. It dramatically reduces the ability for government mass surveillance for two reasons: 1. If companies only collect what they need (to reduce their liability), governments can't demand more than that (or even hack in to get the data illegally). 2. If the industry culture is to limit data collection, governments can't just say, "Well every company does it, so why can't we." There's a wonderful talk, Haunted By Data, that covers a lot of the societal downsides of treating data as an asset. Highly encourage watching/reading. Text: http://idlewords.com/talks/haunted_by_data.htm http://idlewords.com/talks/haunted_by_data.htm Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAXLHM-1Psk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAXLHM-1Psk

giancarlostoro 8y ago
Wonder what will happen if the US passes laws enforcing companies to retain data for up to a year minimum for digital forensic integrity reasons of cyber criminal cases. Also maybe on the other hand GDPR is good for VPN services to be much more transparent.
- amelius 8y ago
  I suspect there will simply be a direct pipe for logging to the government, where companies don't need to retain anything.
  - giancarlostoro 8y ago
    GDPR requires you to make that kind of information available.
    - 13years 8y ago
      However governments often have undisclosed access not even known to the holder of the information. I doubt GDPR will significantly affect information to which the government wants access Can I ask the government to delete all information on me?
      - pjc50 8y ago
        There will undoubtedly be a lawsuit again soon over whether companies are allowed to transfer data out of the EU to US government warrantless requests.
        risotto_groupon 8y ago
        I hope its Greece so we can all be as transparent as possible about the real issue here... (Democracy)
    - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
      Do we really believe large Chinese tech companies will be complying with GDPR?
      - chapium 8y ago
        The thought anyone believes that makes me chuckle, thanks.
      - confounded 8y ago
        Are there any that do a lot of business in the EU that you’re thinking of? I can think of lots of hardware, but not many traditional consumer Internet companies. Maybe Ali Baba for SMEs?
        Operyl 8y ago
        Tencent to name one.
    - dahauns 8y ago
      If I'm not mistaken, GDPR has the usual exemptions in place for that kind of usage (national security etc.), hasn't it?
zhte415 8y ago
When young in my career, which was finance/banking, my 'Head' (as was the organisational naming structure) sent an email re-forwarding and re-emphasining data retention policy. I was inclined to never delete an email rather than comply with 'your inbox should not exceed 500MB'. That was 50 emails a day then, my inbox now exceeds 500MB on a daily basis. Sure, you can save archive locally or on a shared drive. But the key idea... we don't want customer data because of liability. If we're storing it for a specific purpose, be that regulatory reporting or clearly defined analytics, fine. Before the term 'big data', simply 'lots of data' sounded nice. But don't let it hang around. At some point it will be a liability. You're serving customers. The key part of this is keeping their data safe. Not having it anymore (or having it in an non-accessible lock-away auto-delete repisitory for legal purposes) is more than good enough, to properly store and manage it is what's better.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
bleachedsleet 8y ago
I concur and would like to add that this view of data collection has become common only because of the slew of breaches. Hackers leaking massive customer databases has forced companies to review their collection policies because they don't want to deal with the fallout, technically, politically and otherwise. This is true of the hacker ethos, using radical, often criminal behavior to point out glaring flaws that others become complacent with. Of course, these days that goal is secondary if it is considered at all, to the goal of financial gain and that's a damn shame.
baxtr 8y ago
Just to be contrarian: I’m not so sure if that’s a good thing... Data can be used for great things, e.g. longitudinal data in healthcare. I think seeing data as a liability might reduce the speed of progress
- diafygi 8y ago
  In the talk, there's a parallel drawn between the nuclear industry 60 years ago and big data now, where the nuclear was originally touted as a miracle cure for everything, then disasters happened, then it never really got over the stigma despite its huge potential. Society decided, for now, the upsides aren't worth the downsides. Oil is another parallel where society is currently just at the point where we are starting to not value the upsides over the downsides.
  - Scooty 8y ago
    Seems like oil and nuclear energy are different because both can be replaced with alternative sources of energy. What are the alternative sources of user data?
    - tankerslay 8y ago
      Paper records, human memory.... Comparing growth in data storage versus energy usage per capita is interesting. Even if you look back to the founding of the U.S., the change in energy use per person is actually only a few fold, definitely less than an order of magnitude. Harder to compare quantity of data storage but the change would seem much larger. How much data is there, per U.S. person?
    - r00fus 8y ago
      Why is data a requirement to keep? Currently has value with externalized downsides.
- rhizome 8y ago
  Data can be used for great things, e.g. longitudinal data in healthcare. I think seeing data as a liability might reduce the speed of progress I think the word "can" is acting as a euphemism or term of elision here, since "longitudinal data in healthcare" includes things like the Tuskeegee Syphilis Experiment.
daxorid 8y ago
> governments can't just say, "Well every company does it, so why can't we." Odd. That's precisely what's happening with GDPR. While the EU governments are demanding that private companies limit collection and use of data, the intelligence arms of these same countries (I'm looking at you, GCHQ) and their FVEY partners are doing everything they can to hoover up and store every single bit of data on the world population, including their own citizens. And somehow, we think this is fine. An entity with the power to disappear you and render you to black sites can have all the data on you they wish. But Facebook determining that there is an 83.7% chance you are stressed serving up an ad for vacation rentals is completely verboten. It's absolutely mad.

giancarlostoro 8y ago

Wonder what will happen if the US passes laws enforcing companies to retain data for up to a year minimum for digital forensic integrity reasons of cyber criminal cases. Also maybe on the other hand GDPR is good for VPN services to be much more transparent.

amelius 8y ago
I suspect there will simply be a direct pipe for logging to the government, where companies don't need to retain anything.
- giancarlostoro 8y ago
  GDPR requires you to make that kind of information available.
  - 13years 8y ago
    However governments often have undisclosed access not even known to the holder of the information. I doubt GDPR will significantly affect information to which the government wants access Can I ask the government to delete all information on me?
    - pjc50 8y ago
      There will undoubtedly be a lawsuit again soon over whether companies are allowed to transfer data out of the EU to US government warrantless requests.
      - risotto_groupon 8y ago
        I hope its Greece so we can all be as transparent as possible about the real issue here... (Democracy)
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    Do we really believe large Chinese tech companies will be complying with GDPR?
    - chapium 8y ago
      The thought anyone believes that makes me chuckle, thanks.
    - confounded 8y ago
      Are there any that do a lot of business in the EU that you’re thinking of? I can think of lots of hardware, but not many traditional consumer Internet companies. Maybe Ali Baba for SMEs?
      - Operyl 8y ago
        Tencent to name one.
  - dahauns 8y ago
    If I'm not mistaken, GDPR has the usual exemptions in place for that kind of usage (national security etc.), hasn't it?

zhte415 8y ago

When young in my career, which was finance/banking, my 'Head' (as was the organisational naming structure) sent an email re-forwarding and re-emphasining data retention policy. I was inclined to never delete an email rather than comply with 'your inbox should not exceed 500MB'. That was 50 emails a day then, my inbox now exceeds 500MB on a daily basis. Sure, you can save archive locally or on a shared drive. But the key idea... we don't want customer data because of liability. If we're storing it for a specific purpose, be that regulatory reporting or clearly defined analytics, fine. Before the term 'big data', simply 'lots of data' sounded nice. But don't let it hang around. At some point it will be a liability. You're serving customers. The key part of this is keeping their data safe. Not having it anymore (or having it in an non-accessible lock-away auto-delete repisitory for legal purposes) is more than good enough, to properly store and manage it is what's better.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

bleachedsleet 8y ago

I concur and would like to add that this view of data collection has become common only because of the slew of breaches. Hackers leaking massive customer databases has forced companies to review their collection policies because they don't want to deal with the fallout, technically, politically and otherwise. This is true of the hacker ethos, using radical, often criminal behavior to point out glaring flaws that others become complacent with. Of course, these days that goal is secondary if it is considered at all, to the goal of financial gain and that's a damn shame.

baxtr 8y ago

Just to be contrarian: I’m not so sure if that’s a good thing... Data can be used for great things, e.g. longitudinal data in healthcare. I think seeing data as a liability might reduce the speed of progress

diafygi 8y ago
In the talk, there's a parallel drawn between the nuclear industry 60 years ago and big data now, where the nuclear was originally touted as a miracle cure for everything, then disasters happened, then it never really got over the stigma despite its huge potential. Society decided, for now, the upsides aren't worth the downsides. Oil is another parallel where society is currently just at the point where we are starting to not value the upsides over the downsides.
- Scooty 8y ago
  Seems like oil and nuclear energy are different because both can be replaced with alternative sources of energy. What are the alternative sources of user data?
  - tankerslay 8y ago
    Paper records, human memory.... Comparing growth in data storage versus energy usage per capita is interesting. Even if you look back to the founding of the U.S., the change in energy use per person is actually only a few fold, definitely less than an order of magnitude. Harder to compare quantity of data storage but the change would seem much larger. How much data is there, per U.S. person?
  - r00fus 8y ago
    Why is data a requirement to keep? Currently has value with externalized downsides.
rhizome 8y ago
Data can be used for great things, e.g. longitudinal data in healthcare. I think seeing data as a liability might reduce the speed of progress I think the word "can" is acting as a euphemism or term of elision here, since "longitudinal data in healthcare" includes things like the Tuskeegee Syphilis Experiment.

daxorid 8y ago

> governments can't just say, "Well every company does it, so why can't we." Odd. That's precisely what's happening with GDPR. While the EU governments are demanding that private companies limit collection and use of data, the intelligence arms of these same countries (I'm looking at you, GCHQ) and their FVEY partners are doing everything they can to hoover up and store every single bit of data on the world population, including their own citizens. And somehow, we think this is fine. An entity with the power to disappear you and render you to black sites can have all the data on you they wish. But Facebook determining that there is an 83.7% chance you are stressed serving up an ad for vacation rentals is completely verboten. It's absolutely mad.