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Why read Aristotle today?
- KhayriRRW 8y agoAristotle's philosophy are timelessly relevant. ~ Khayri R.R. Woulfe
- bshepard 8y agoThe parts in Guy Robinson's "Philosophy and Mystifications" about Aristotle still resonate with me in one way or another a few years after reading it. The book is happily available online: http://www.spiritual-minds.com/philosophy/assorted/0415178517%20-%20Guy%20Robinson%20-%20Philosophy%20And%20Mystification~%20A%20Reflection%20On%20Nonsense%20And%20Clarity%20-%20Routledge.pdf http://www.spiritual-minds.com/philosophy/assorted/041517851... Here's a relevant bit: "When Aristotle looks for a place to begin the investigation of any topic he suggests that we begin with “the opinions of the many or the wise.” This is hardly because those opinions are thought to be infallible. We need not have a mystical view about “the collective wisdom of humanity” to think it sensible to start there. It simply makes more sense than wasting our time with random fanciful or extraordinary views, views that have come out of nowhere and are likely only to lead nowhere, the wild suppositions of impossible happenings: colors that change on a certain date, universes that consist only of sounds or of one object, and so forth. Under the influence of Descartes’s method, these imaginings have been thought to reveal “conceptual boundaries.”
- stareatgoats 8y ago> Only humans have moral agency, and therefore, as co-inhabitants of planet Earth with an astounding number of plants and animals, have the unique responsibility for conservation. Ancient Greek thinking like this usually leaves me with a sense akin to shock, I think because I'm victim of some darling prejudices of our time: that the quality of human thinking has gradually improved over eons. That the vast number of humans now engaged in thinking on all continents, with marvels of technology at their fingertips would mean we have ready access to unparalleled understanding of the human condition compared to times past. Instead we are like children. We can hardly even understand what those people were talking about. Moral agency? Never heard about it :-/.
- mlthoughts2018 8y agoWe wish there was something like the Central Limit Theorem for philosophy, but moral philosophy, population ethics, utilitarianism, etc. create all these fraught impossibility theorems or paradoxes, and as technology improves, it’s hard to fault a lot of people for taking an instrumentally rational approach to materialism, and just feeling exhausted by the breadth of what you need to think about and the pedantic effort and risks required to act ethically in all the increasing interfaces with society.
- AlexB138 8y agoI read quite a lot of ancient philosophy and grappled with basically this exact thought. It was a bit painful to feel as though we've intellectually slid backwards. There is a theory that calls that era the Axial Age, which is worth looking up. That era contained some of the greatest thinkers in history: Anaxagoras, Aristotle, Buddha, Confucius etc. The thing to keep in mind is that there is incredible selection bias at work here. The vast majority of people living then were illiterate and living brutal lives. They didn't know or care about philosophy, much like the majority of people now. Yes, ancient Athens was special in that it had a special focus on thought, but I would still bet that the modern era has a greater percentage of people who are interested in great thought than ever before, and we've had our own thinkers at great heights.
- atmosx 8y agoI can't speak about Buddha or Confucius. Greek legacy was build in ~100-150 years, which is more like a flash in human history than an era. I'm talking about 5th century BC specifically. Walking to the streets of the Athenian city state you could come across: - philosophers: Socrates, Isocrates, Protagoras, Parmenides - historians: Herodotus, Thucydides and Xenophon - authors: Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, Aristophanes - scientists(?): Democritus (the atom guy), Phidias (greatest sculptor in Ancient Greece), Hippocrates (father of modern Medicine) - politicians: Pericles and Demosthenes - military minds: Miltiades, Themistocles I think the fact that democracy was established the century before, had a lot to do with this concentration of minds. That said, of course, slavery was a thing, women were more like objects and only a few had voting rights.
- senatorobama 8y agoTo answer the title.. why exactly?! Dive into some Eastern philosophy, now!
- capiv 8y agoAristotle is still the most insightful and relevant philosopher after all these years. From physics, to psychology, to biology, to politics, to ethics, to metaphysics, to logic. No single man has made more contributions to him.
- nyc111 8y ago> Aristotle is still the most insightful and relevant philosopher after all these years. From physics, to psychology, to biology, to politics, to ethics, to metaphysics, to logic. No single man has made more contributions to him. I totally agree. Aristotle is still relevant today. But regarding happiness, as presented in this article, all these philosophers, Aristotle included, offer behavioral recipies that the SELF must enforce on his body in order to be happy. Usually by enforcing such things as frugality and fasting, instead of letting the body do what it wants. So let the body decide what is best for itself. But what I want to say is that, happiness is, to a great extent, a feeling resulting from, or caused by, some chemicals. Like melatonin and seratonin. So all we have to do is to create the right conditions for the body to secrete the optimum amount of happiness chemicals. So it seems happiness is not about forcing body to behave a certain way.
- ssijak 8y agoIt is if those forced behaviors over time in effect create more happy chemical compared to if you did not enforce these behaviors.
- mantas 8y agoMaybe difference is short-term happiness vs sustainable. Looking at all kinds of addictions, just giving the right conditions to release happiness chemicals is not sustainable. Meanwhile putting some constraints and forcing the body in a certain way is harder but more sustainable? Sustainable as in longer term and for community as a whole.
- nyc111 8y agoThat’s not what I meant! If you sleep in a really dark room; if you do not take your phone into your bedroom; if you do a short breathing exercise before you sleep, then, scientists tell us that your body will secrete melatonine and you will feel happier. This is hot short term! Not sure why people are offended by this fact.
- bhaak 8y agoBecause every science, through one way or another, goes back to those questions that he asked. Together with Socrates and Platon those three Greeks basically posed questions that every age answered in their own way.
- empath75 8y agoIt has often been said that all of philosophy is just commentaries on Aristotle and Plato and I think that was almost literally true at least up through the Renaissance.
- gibsonf1 8y agoOne of the great things about Aristotle is his focus on induction, using the facts and experience of life as the basis for reasoning, and human nature specifically for inducing virtue, morality and the good life. But I would even more highly recommend Jordan Peterson's "12 Rules of Life" as far more helpful given Peterson's incredible intelligence and inductive abilities through both his practice as a psychologist and his intense study of past philosophy.
- ssijak 8y agoI read 40 books from the beginning of the year. "12 Rules of Life" is the only book I could not finish. I stopped at about 70-80% (actually I just left it on 1.25x on Audible while doing other things but without my full attention). He just rambles about Gepetto story and Bible stories that after a while it loses al sense, yeah we get it what you want to tell, but if you make parallels with Bible stories for a hundredth time it loses its appeal and point. His book would be fine if it cut almost all of those Bible references out, left some, and included other references and stories also to which people could more relate to.
- keiferski 8y agoNo, I’m sorry but the pop-culture YouTube phenomenon that is Jordan Peterson is not remotely comparable to an actual thinker like Aristotle.
- throwaway10e6 8y ago
- andrew_ 8y agoThe article cites his works on happiness, but I scanned several times and couldn't find which works I should read about the subject. I'm fairly ignorant about Aristotle's teachings, writings and only have a knowledge of who the man was. So I'm a bit lost as to which to begin with, targeting the article's focus on his ideas of happiness. Suggestions?
- seanstickle 8y agoAristotle's Nicomachean Ethics tackles happiness. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicomachean_Ethics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicomachean_Ethics "Let us resume our inquiry and state, in view of the fact that all knowledge and every pursuit aims at some good, what it is that we say political science aims at and what is the highest of all goods achievable by action. Verbally there is very general agreement; for both the general run of men and people of superior refinement say that it is happiness, and identify living well and doing well with being happy; but with regard to what happiness is they differ, and the many do not give the same account as the wise."
- ropeadopepope 8y agoBecause human behavior boils down to Plato vs Aristotle. If you don't read both, then there is a segment of the population who's actions and opinions are going to be a complete mystery to you.
- rgrieselhuber 8y agoExactly. It really is amazing how many areas this is blatantly obvious once you read and understand what both are really saying.
- timpetri 8y agoFor someone who's never really the studied their works, do you have any recommendations on what to read?
- ttonkytonk 8y agoPlato's Euthyphro
- 1337biz 8y agoAnd for the Aristoteles perspective?
- ttonkytonk 8y agoAristotle's Nicomachean Ethics
- lucidguppy 8y agoSome say that the enlightenment was a refutation of Plato and Aristotle.
- szemet 8y agoBertrand Russell especially hated him for this. Just read "History of western philosophy"-s section on Aristotle! ;) e.g. "Throughout modern times, practically every advance in science, in logic, or in philosophy has had to be made in the teeth of the opposition from Aristotle's disciples." "Aristotle, it should be said, has been one of the great misfortunes of the human race." (Scientific outlook)
- exratione 8y agoIt is interesting to compare this interpretation of Aristotle on happiness with the transhumanist take on happiness, pleasure, and suffering known as the Hedonistic Imperative. When doing so, Aristotle starts to look a lot closer to stoicism, in sense of acceptance of the human condition as it is, planning a strategy within established limits that cannot be changed. The spectrum of philosophy expands, with most of the ancients sitting quite close to one another in a much larger state space than they had access to.
- timpetri 8y agoI found this article very fascinating. I'm sad to admit that I know very little about the large number thinkers from that time though. If anyone could point me in the direction of some literature that would introduce me to all this, that would be greatly appreciated!
- atmosx 8y agoThere's a nice podcast[1] by the King's College in London about philosophy. It's not going deep on any particular philosopher, bar Plato, but will give you an overview of ancient and modern Philosophy. Then you can decide were you'd like to dig more. [1]: https://historyofphilosophy.net/ https://historyofphilosophy.net/
- throwaway10e6 8y agoPhilosophy PhD here. I'd recommend a couple of classics, both accessible to non-specialists: The Great Chain of Being is a nice overview of some of the main themes of ancient metaphysics and their later influence.[1] It ranges far beyond the ancient world, but it does as good a job as anything can of showing how ancient theories that might easily seem conceptually alien could in fact have been rational. Shame and Necessity is about what you might call the ethical mindset of the ancient world.[2] The general aim is to explore how the ways Greeks and Romans engaged with moral questions systematically differed from what ethics would become after the advent of Christianity. (I can't praise this book enough. Williams was insanely erudite and analytically sharp.) [1] https://www.amazon.com/Great-Chain-Being-Study-History/dp/0674361539 https://www.amazon.com/Great-Chain-Being-Study-History/dp/06... [2] https://www.amazon.com/Shame-Necessity-Sather-Classical-Lectures/dp/0520256433 https://www.amazon.com/Shame-Necessity-Sather-Classical-Lect...
- Jun8 8y agoMy layman's suggestion is that, rather than trying to read the ancients, start with how ideas from them and more current philosophers are relevant in today's debates. This is akin to diving into using a prog language with little understanding rather than reading books about it, it's more fun! If you want to follow the above approach I think the best resource is the fantastic Philosophy Bites podcast (http://www.philosophybites.com/ http://www.philosophybites.com/) where philosophers are interviewed. And if you're more of a printed matter type of person, they have books with the transcribed interviews, too (https://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Bites-David-Edmonds/dp/0199694664 https://www.amazon.com/Philosophy-Bites-David-Edmonds/dp/019...). This, I think, is a great way to identify the areas of philosophy you're interested in to zoom in further.
- DubiousPusher 8y agoSee, every time I try to enjoy ancient philosophy, I get going and then bump into a comment like this. >Nobody would call a man ideally happy if he has not got a particle of courage nor of temperance nor of decency nor of good sense, but is afraid of the flies that flutter by him, cannot refrain from any of the most outrageous actions in order to gratify a desire to eat or to drink, and ruins his dearest friends for the sake of a penny… If Aristotle means that the general lack of these qualities leads to unhappiness than he just needed to have some more profligate friends. I've known cowards, adicts and individuals with terrible practical instincts who were all happy people. If he specifically means the total lack of one of these traits well then no s---. Of course those individuals have a harder time being happy. They're lacking a significant tool the rest of us pack around in tool box for dealing with day to day life. And there's a decent chance they're suffering a debilitating neuroses. In the first case it's naive. In the second it's inane. Obviously Aristotle wasn't an idiot but I find the same flaw among nearly all ancient Greek philosophers. He was retroactively fitting a moral reasoning to his own secular but restrained moral instincts. There's a way of living that felt right to him and he reasoned himself into thinking it was "best". I may be more sympathetic to the Stoics and the Epicureans but I get the same vibe when I read their works.
- atmosx 8y agoYou've known addicts who were happy ? What's your definition of happiness? Most addicts I know off, are extremely miserable. I don't know many, just a few, but none of them look even remotely happy to me. They were well aware of their situation and the repugnant feeling that their presence caused to others. They can/could barely stand themselves.
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- DubiousPusher 8y agoI think you may be confusing addicts with the popular notion of a "junky". But yes, I've known alcoholics, pot heads, pill poppers and a few dope fiends who lead productive fullfilled lives, seem extraordinarily content and actively contribute back to their communities. If those aren't signs of happiness, I don't know what are. Of course I've known many more for whom addiction has been a total disaster. So I'm not recommending it or anything but I don't think it should be a disqualifier for considering one "happy". And yes when I say "happiness" I mean something beyond momentary satisfaction. This just strikes me as more of the same old school dudes conflating control or self discipline with virtue and conflating virtue with happiness (not that they have nothing to do with each other but I'm not sure they're the same things.)
- ccnafr 8y agoI wouldn't recommend reading Aristotle's works, bur rather the analysis of his writings in modern contexts.
- emptybits 8y agoAcceptance and its role in happiness is such a great topic and I am so grateful we can access the works of long-past lucid thinkers. This is a very productive use of limited reading time IMO. Putting aside Aristotelian virtue-of-external-goods, there is so much agreement with the Stoics (action-from-virtue and virtue-from-within). And THEN, when you fold in schools like Daoism and Buddhism (the philosophy, not religion) and their takes on acceptance and happiness ... I am also impressed (comforted?) that there is so much in common with the west. (Confirmation of fundamentals? I recognize this optimism is decidedly un-Stoic. Lol.) BTW, here's another good article IMO that contrasts the two Greek camps: http://modernstoicism.com/poor-but-happy-aristotle-and-the-stoics-on-external-goods-by-gabriele-galluzzo/ http://modernstoicism.com/poor-but-happy-aristotle-and-the-s...
- motohagiography 8y agoAristotle's notion of megalopsuchia, seems richer than our modern sense of manganimity, and it is a very interesting jumping off point for personal growth. From a practical view, the temperance Aristotle required on qualities to make them virtues, could be applied with the tools of the stoics.
- drunkenmonkey 8y agoAs an oblong reference regarding megalopsuchia, you may enjoy Peter Chung’s Aristotle as visited in the anime film series titled “Reign: The Conqueror”.
- dzonga 8y agoI lean toward Hume's skepticism and empiricism. I also think stoicism is important. But after deep and reflective thought there platonism and stoicism, tend to be heavy on logic and rationalism.Whereas life is practical, and doesn't really work on rationalism outside of academic matters. example penicillin was a pure accident, found by experience then later studied by academics.