5 ms·

Well I've been to Scandinavia and despite the countries having less GDPs, the quality of life, for the average citizen, is way higher.

rukittenme 8y ago
But that wasn't your point: > America is mighty but that doesn't translate into the life quality of its citizens at all. Countries can vary in development and quality of life but your original statement is demonstrably false.
pluto9 8y ago
I haven't been to Scandinavia, but I have been to some of the "wealthy" European countries, including Ireland. I now live in its GDP counterpart, Colorado. I would say their quality of life is comparable. It would be helpful for you to explain how life in, say, Sweden is vastly better than life in Georgia. Before you cite poor uneducated Georgian hillbillies, keep in mind that Georgia is home to Georgia Tech, not to mention Atlanta, which was quite prosperous last time I checked. And if you're going to cite Sweden's "free" universities, you might as well go ahead and throw in a side-by-side comparison of Georgian/U.S. Federal and Swedish tax rates as well.
- lexs 8y ago
  oh no contributing to society with taxes oh noooooo
  - pluto9 8y ago
    Utterly pointless and idiotic comment. I made no judgement as to whether those higher taxes or the things they pay for are good or bad. I am merely saying that these things are trade-offs, and if you're going to count the benefits, you must also count the costs.
  - lolsal 8y ago
    Are you intending to add anything to the discussion or was your comment accidentally not contributing anything?
- maxerickson 8y ago
  It comes down to how you measure. People doing well have a high quality of life in pretty much the entire United States. People at the bottom, less so. The US does have an awful lot of support for people, but our society is also hostile to poor people and we have awful workplace regulation for low quality jobs.
  - pluto9 8y ago
    Yeah, life sucks when you're poor. More so in many of these countries than in the U.S, and less so in a few. You've said nothing. Every country has economic strata. Pointing it out only in the case of the U.S. is specious.
    - maxerickson 8y ago
      Well no, pointing out that the US strata are unusually and unnecessarily capricious isn't specious. The US is a rich country and the lack of resources for people at the bottom is more likely to be arbitrary than it is to be contributing to that wealth.
      - pluto9 8y ago
        It is when you conveniently fail to mention the vast list of countries, many of which are on this map, whose stratification is far worse than that of the U.S.
        kungtotte 8y ago
        Comparing specifically to Sweden, there is no similarity at all between the US and Sweden when it comes to economic classes and their differences. We have our upper class and working class too, but even those who are working poor here manage with one job and they still enjoy benefits like day care and health care. How many people are hustling two or more jobs to make ends meet in the US? How many of them afford day care? What happens if they break a leg and can't work for a month?
alehul 8y ago
As a Swede living in the United States, I can agree that the average person has a higher quality of life in Scandinavia! I don't think it's possible to have that in the States, though; the country doesn't seem meant for it. The Scandinavian model relies on many incompatible tenets that could be mentioned, including but not limited to immigration. The Swedish system is already practically collapsing from its first major influx of immigrants ever. If we want a country in which everyone is welcome, it can't be a country in which we offer a fantastic quality of life automatically through living there. I mean, not until we have some post-scarcity economy, at least. Another issue is that maybe part of the States' success is related to having more income to yourself, to spend at your discretion after taxes, rather than it being spent for you by the government. It inspires a lot of immigration from people with big ideas, and that could easily change if the U.S. surpasses other countries in taxes. I think there are models the U.S. should adopt from Scandinavia, however they're smaller in scope and address efficiency with tax money. One example is that all your income tax goes to the local government up until a certain point (~65,000 USD?), and it's redistributed at that level, rather than being siphoned through so many levels of bureaucracy like in the States. It's funny, while being the polar opposite of the U.S. and its conservative values, Sweden still manages a smaller federal government!
- joejerryronnie 8y ago
  The population of Sweden is 10 million vs 325 million for the US. The issues faced by each country are vastly different in scale and policies which work at one scale will not necessarily work at the other. In this context we should be comparing the policies of Sweden to the policies of New York (but even that doesn't really work because of the vastly more diverse population of NY).
  - kungtotte 8y ago
    I totally accept the argument that it's not the same thing to run a country of 10 milion versus 325 million, but why does demographics matter so much? A lot of the differences between Sweden and the US comes down to things like whether health care should be a human right etc. Do you think people are less inclined to want "free" health care if they live in a community that's ethnically mixed? I don't buy it.

rukittenme 8y ago

But that wasn't your point: > America is mighty but that doesn't translate into the life quality of its citizens at all. Countries can vary in development and quality of life but your original statement is demonstrably false.

pluto9 8y ago

I haven't been to Scandinavia, but I have been to some of the "wealthy" European countries, including Ireland. I now live in its GDP counterpart, Colorado. I would say their quality of life is comparable. It would be helpful for you to explain how life in, say, Sweden is vastly better than life in Georgia. Before you cite poor uneducated Georgian hillbillies, keep in mind that Georgia is home to Georgia Tech, not to mention Atlanta, which was quite prosperous last time I checked. And if you're going to cite Sweden's "free" universities, you might as well go ahead and throw in a side-by-side comparison of Georgian/U.S. Federal and Swedish tax rates as well.

lexs 8y ago
oh no contributing to society with taxes oh noooooo
- pluto9 8y ago
  Utterly pointless and idiotic comment. I made no judgement as to whether those higher taxes or the things they pay for are good or bad. I am merely saying that these things are trade-offs, and if you're going to count the benefits, you must also count the costs.
- lolsal 8y ago
  Are you intending to add anything to the discussion or was your comment accidentally not contributing anything?
maxerickson 8y ago
It comes down to how you measure. People doing well have a high quality of life in pretty much the entire United States. People at the bottom, less so. The US does have an awful lot of support for people, but our society is also hostile to poor people and we have awful workplace regulation for low quality jobs.
- pluto9 8y ago
  Yeah, life sucks when you're poor. More so in many of these countries than in the U.S, and less so in a few. You've said nothing. Every country has economic strata. Pointing it out only in the case of the U.S. is specious.
  - maxerickson 8y ago
    Well no, pointing out that the US strata are unusually and unnecessarily capricious isn't specious. The US is a rich country and the lack of resources for people at the bottom is more likely to be arbitrary than it is to be contributing to that wealth.
    - pluto9 8y ago
      It is when you conveniently fail to mention the vast list of countries, many of which are on this map, whose stratification is far worse than that of the U.S.
      - kungtotte 8y ago
        Comparing specifically to Sweden, there is no similarity at all between the US and Sweden when it comes to economic classes and their differences. We have our upper class and working class too, but even those who are working poor here manage with one job and they still enjoy benefits like day care and health care. How many people are hustling two or more jobs to make ends meet in the US? How many of them afford day care? What happens if they break a leg and can't work for a month?

alehul 8y ago

As a Swede living in the United States, I can agree that the average person has a higher quality of life in Scandinavia! I don't think it's possible to have that in the States, though; the country doesn't seem meant for it. The Scandinavian model relies on many incompatible tenets that could be mentioned, including but not limited to immigration. The Swedish system is already practically collapsing from its first major influx of immigrants ever. If we want a country in which everyone is welcome, it can't be a country in which we offer a fantastic quality of life automatically through living there. I mean, not until we have some post-scarcity economy, at least. Another issue is that maybe part of the States' success is related to having more income to yourself, to spend at your discretion after taxes, rather than it being spent for you by the government. It inspires a lot of immigration from people with big ideas, and that could easily change if the U.S. surpasses other countries in taxes. I think there are models the U.S. should adopt from Scandinavia, however they're smaller in scope and address efficiency with tax money. One example is that all your income tax goes to the local government up until a certain point (~65,000 USD?), and it's redistributed at that level, rather than being siphoned through so many levels of bureaucracy like in the States. It's funny, while being the polar opposite of the U.S. and its conservative values, Sweden still manages a smaller federal government!

joejerryronnie 8y ago
The population of Sweden is 10 million vs 325 million for the US. The issues faced by each country are vastly different in scale and policies which work at one scale will not necessarily work at the other. In this context we should be comparing the policies of Sweden to the policies of New York (but even that doesn't really work because of the vastly more diverse population of NY).
- kungtotte 8y ago
  I totally accept the argument that it's not the same thing to run a country of 10 milion versus 325 million, but why does demographics matter so much? A lot of the differences between Sweden and the US comes down to things like whether health care should be a human right etc. Do you think people are less inclined to want "free" health care if they live in a community that's ethnically mixed? I don't buy it.