9 ms·

holy cow america is mighty

by elvirs 8y ago

curiousgal 8y ago
This is the saddest part, America is mighty but that doesn't translate into the life quality of its citizens at all.
- linkmotif 8y ago
  Mighty doesn’t mean everyone gets free stuff via government redistribution programs. And maybe one can see that this is the reason America is “mighty.” We attract and retain the best of the whole world, who come here because they are tired of senseless redistribution campaigns by the have-nots of the world. Not to mention freedom generally, which is why my family came to the US: we were not seeking economic opportunities, but freedom from oppression and discrimination, which in 2018 is still much more the exception than the rule globally. Russia can huff and puff all it wants, but Ed Snowden is still basically the only prominent American who has ever moved to Russia. This while millions of people from the FSU moved to the US, Israel, Europe, Australia and Canada over the past thirty years, which is the fundamental difference between the US and Russia, etc. Now if only there was a way to send the people who want redistribution to places where they have that sort of thing. That would be great! But guess what: Norway doesn’t want these people :(. They have enough people jockeying for the dole.
  - curiousgal 8y ago
    Well, this isn't the 80s anymore, no one talks of Russia anymore. What I meant was based on looking at European countries like Sweden and Finland or even France. Also, I am not saying the U.S. is a horrible place to live in, I am just saying that it has the potential to be more liveable for all citizens, not just the very "best".
    - strictnein 8y ago
      > Well, this isn't the 80s anymore, no one talks of Russia anymore. What now?
    - linkmotif 8y ago
      Well the same is true for the rest of the world. I live in Queens, NY surrounded by the world’s best who came here from all over the place. For every 100,000 people from Bangladesh here in Queens, I wonder whether these is even 1 American living permanently in Bangladesh. I wonder how many expats there are out there total, and which country has the closest immigration balance to the United States, which probably leads the world by a lot in any metric of incoming immigrants. I focus on immigration because where you choose to live seems like the single greatest vote of confidence that you can make. So I wonder why people here in the states want to make the states more like other places when clearly people from other places want to come here. > I am just saying that it has the potential to be more liveable for all citizens, not just the very "best". Yeah it definitely could and should be. There is a lot of low hanging fruit.
  - tjr225 8y ago
    You're presenting a false dichotomy where the US can't have social welfare programs and be great - this is simply not the case. FDRs social programs and the labor movements of the last century arguably improved our country in its most noticeable way of all time - at least until it was dismantled by the people who benefited from it the most (the baby boomers).
    - chimeracoder 8y ago
      > FDRs social programs and the labor movements of the last century arguably improved our country in its most noticeable way of all time You can't discuss either of those two things without also recognizing the other half of those policies: the massive xenophobia, racism, and outright genocide that motivated and fueled them, all under FDR's watch.
- hood_syntax 8y ago
  I disagree. It does, just not at the rate that it could.
  - tjr225 8y ago
    This is it right here. A safety net(including healthcare, education, retirement) intended for all would be an awesome way to spend all of this money, but instead it gets squandered elsewhere.
    - rukittenme 8y ago
      Where does it get squandered? 60% of the federal budget goes to retirement and healthcare. That doesn't account for all of the local budgets which almost exclusively target human welfare projects. There are only two stereotypical places I can think of it being "squandered". The first is the military which, who knows, could be NPV if you consider what the world could be like without it. Ultimately its unknowable. The second is the money not taxed. Which is a particularly frustrating mindset that I encounter on the internet. In either case, we're not "squandering" money anywhere. You may disagree with the allocation of some resources but that doesn't mean its been squandered.
      - jessaustin 8y ago
        Gosh, what would the world be like if our troops and munitions weren't murdering civilians and prolonging conflicts in a monotonically-increasing set of nations around the world? It's not "unknowable"; we just have to start voting... ...haha what was I thinking never mind. Also what does net present value have to do with any of this?
        rukittenme 8y ago
        > Gosh, what would the world be like if our troops and munitions weren't murdering civilians and prolonging conflicts in a monotonically-increasing set of nations around the world? It's not "unknowable"; we just have to start voting... Hah! I didn't say you couldn't have an opinion on it. Only that you can't know the world that "could have been". > Also what does net present value have to do with any of this? Squander is a word which means to waste. If a government project has a net economic (or public health) benefit then by definition the money was not squandered.
- pluto9 8y ago
  How do you figure? I've been to both Iraq and Oklahoma, and I can tell you the quality of life in Oklahoma is a hell of a lot better than Iraq, pre- or post-war, in spite of their similar GDPs.
  - curiousgal 8y ago
    Well I've been to Scandinavia and despite the countries having less GDPs, the quality of life, for the average citizen, is way higher.
    - rukittenme 8y ago
      But that wasn't your point: > America is mighty but that doesn't translate into the life quality of its citizens at all. Countries can vary in development and quality of life but your original statement is demonstrably false.
    - pluto9 8y ago
      I haven't been to Scandinavia, but I have been to some of the "wealthy" European countries, including Ireland. I now live in its GDP counterpart, Colorado. I would say their quality of life is comparable. It would be helpful for you to explain how life in, say, Sweden is vastly better than life in Georgia. Before you cite poor uneducated Georgian hillbillies, keep in mind that Georgia is home to Georgia Tech, not to mention Atlanta, which was quite prosperous last time I checked. And if you're going to cite Sweden's "free" universities, you might as well go ahead and throw in a side-by-side comparison of Georgian/U.S. Federal and Swedish tax rates as well.
      - lexs 8y ago
        oh no contributing to society with taxes oh noooooo
        pluto9 8y ago
        Utterly pointless and idiotic comment. I made no judgement as to whether those higher taxes or the things they pay for are good or bad. I am merely saying that these things are trade-offs, and if you're going to count the benefits, you must also count the costs.
- lolsal 8y ago
  You're making a judgement call. Americans value different things than Europeans (or Asians, or ...). For example I personally would rather live in USA than Europe.
- mikeash 8y ago
  At all? American quality of life could (and should) be better, but it’s still pretty good.
- rayiner 8y ago
  I mean, it clearly does. The US is in the top 10 in terms of Human Development Index, above the U.K., France, Spain, and Italy. Germany is the only large, economically and geographically diverse European country that beats the U.S.
- strictnein 8y ago
  Where did you get the idea that Americans don't have a high quality of life? If this is an outside looking in scenario, I'll just say that I'm amused and disappointed by international press coverage of the US whenever I travel abroad.

holy cow america is mighty

by elvirs 8y ago

holy cow america is mighty

curiousgal 8y ago

This is the saddest part, America is mighty but that doesn't translate into the life quality of its citizens at all.

linkmotif 8y ago
Mighty doesn’t mean everyone gets free stuff via government redistribution programs. And maybe one can see that this is the reason America is “mighty.” We attract and retain the best of the whole world, who come here because they are tired of senseless redistribution campaigns by the have-nots of the world. Not to mention freedom generally, which is why my family came to the US: we were not seeking economic opportunities, but freedom from oppression and discrimination, which in 2018 is still much more the exception than the rule globally. Russia can huff and puff all it wants, but Ed Snowden is still basically the only prominent American who has ever moved to Russia. This while millions of people from the FSU moved to the US, Israel, Europe, Australia and Canada over the past thirty years, which is the fundamental difference between the US and Russia, etc. Now if only there was a way to send the people who want redistribution to places where they have that sort of thing. That would be great! But guess what: Norway doesn’t want these people :(. They have enough people jockeying for the dole.
- curiousgal 8y ago
  Well, this isn't the 80s anymore, no one talks of Russia anymore. What I meant was based on looking at European countries like Sweden and Finland or even France. Also, I am not saying the U.S. is a horrible place to live in, I am just saying that it has the potential to be more liveable for all citizens, not just the very "best".
  - strictnein 8y ago
    > Well, this isn't the 80s anymore, no one talks of Russia anymore. What now?
  - linkmotif 8y ago
    Well the same is true for the rest of the world. I live in Queens, NY surrounded by the world’s best who came here from all over the place. For every 100,000 people from Bangladesh here in Queens, I wonder whether these is even 1 American living permanently in Bangladesh. I wonder how many expats there are out there total, and which country has the closest immigration balance to the United States, which probably leads the world by a lot in any metric of incoming immigrants. I focus on immigration because where you choose to live seems like the single greatest vote of confidence that you can make. So I wonder why people here in the states want to make the states more like other places when clearly people from other places want to come here. > I am just saying that it has the potential to be more liveable for all citizens, not just the very "best". Yeah it definitely could and should be. There is a lot of low hanging fruit.
- tjr225 8y ago
  You're presenting a false dichotomy where the US can't have social welfare programs and be great - this is simply not the case. FDRs social programs and the labor movements of the last century arguably improved our country in its most noticeable way of all time - at least until it was dismantled by the people who benefited from it the most (the baby boomers).
  - chimeracoder 8y ago
    > FDRs social programs and the labor movements of the last century arguably improved our country in its most noticeable way of all time You can't discuss either of those two things without also recognizing the other half of those policies: the massive xenophobia, racism, and outright genocide that motivated and fueled them, all under FDR's watch.
hood_syntax 8y ago
I disagree. It does, just not at the rate that it could.
- tjr225 8y ago
  This is it right here. A safety net(including healthcare, education, retirement) intended for all would be an awesome way to spend all of this money, but instead it gets squandered elsewhere.
  - rukittenme 8y ago
    Where does it get squandered? 60% of the federal budget goes to retirement and healthcare. That doesn't account for all of the local budgets which almost exclusively target human welfare projects. There are only two stereotypical places I can think of it being "squandered". The first is the military which, who knows, could be NPV if you consider what the world could be like without it. Ultimately its unknowable. The second is the money not taxed. Which is a particularly frustrating mindset that I encounter on the internet. In either case, we're not "squandering" money anywhere. You may disagree with the allocation of some resources but that doesn't mean its been squandered.
    - jessaustin 8y ago
      Gosh, what would the world be like if our troops and munitions weren't murdering civilians and prolonging conflicts in a monotonically-increasing set of nations around the world? It's not "unknowable"; we just have to start voting... ...haha what was I thinking never mind. Also what does net present value have to do with any of this?
      - rukittenme 8y ago
        > Gosh, what would the world be like if our troops and munitions weren't murdering civilians and prolonging conflicts in a monotonically-increasing set of nations around the world? It's not "unknowable"; we just have to start voting... Hah! I didn't say you couldn't have an opinion on it. Only that you can't know the world that "could have been". > Also what does net present value have to do with any of this? Squander is a word which means to waste. If a government project has a net economic (or public health) benefit then by definition the money was not squandered.
pluto9 8y ago
How do you figure? I've been to both Iraq and Oklahoma, and I can tell you the quality of life in Oklahoma is a hell of a lot better than Iraq, pre- or post-war, in spite of their similar GDPs.
- curiousgal 8y ago
  Well I've been to Scandinavia and despite the countries having less GDPs, the quality of life, for the average citizen, is way higher.
  - rukittenme 8y ago
    But that wasn't your point: > America is mighty but that doesn't translate into the life quality of its citizens at all. Countries can vary in development and quality of life but your original statement is demonstrably false.
  - pluto9 8y ago
    I haven't been to Scandinavia, but I have been to some of the "wealthy" European countries, including Ireland. I now live in its GDP counterpart, Colorado. I would say their quality of life is comparable. It would be helpful for you to explain how life in, say, Sweden is vastly better than life in Georgia. Before you cite poor uneducated Georgian hillbillies, keep in mind that Georgia is home to Georgia Tech, not to mention Atlanta, which was quite prosperous last time I checked. And if you're going to cite Sweden's "free" universities, you might as well go ahead and throw in a side-by-side comparison of Georgian/U.S. Federal and Swedish tax rates as well.
    - lexs 8y ago
      oh no contributing to society with taxes oh noooooo
      - pluto9 8y ago
        Utterly pointless and idiotic comment. I made no judgement as to whether those higher taxes or the things they pay for are good or bad. I am merely saying that these things are trade-offs, and if you're going to count the benefits, you must also count the costs.
lolsal 8y ago
You're making a judgement call. Americans value different things than Europeans (or Asians, or ...). For example I personally would rather live in USA than Europe.
mikeash 8y ago
At all? American quality of life could (and should) be better, but it’s still pretty good.
rayiner 8y ago
I mean, it clearly does. The US is in the top 10 in terms of Human Development Index, above the U.K., France, Spain, and Italy. Germany is the only large, economically and geographically diverse European country that beats the U.S.
strictnein 8y ago
Where did you get the idea that Americans don't have a high quality of life? If this is an outside looking in scenario, I'll just say that I'm amused and disappointed by international press coverage of the US whenever I travel abroad.