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I appreciate the first point which I believe is a vital factor. Regarding the order of the second and third though, wouldn't the quality of teachers determine w

I appreciate the first point which I believe is a vital factor. Regarding the order of the second and third though, wouldn't the quality of teachers determine whether there are disruptive kids in the class in the first place?

DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
Not likely. My sister teaches in a magnate school in a poor urban U.S. district. The amount of bad behavior with which she must contend is shocking. It's entirely foreign to me from our childhood, and she has relatively little freedom in how she can handle chronically problematic students. If it is theoretically possible for the teachers to keep the disruption level low enough for much learning to happen, then the formula is a secret. It's very depressing, and it has left many teachers bitter, burned out, and I suspect more racist.
- kinleyd 8y ago
  Yes, I see what you mean - it's easy for the collective level of class disruption to overwhelm the teacher, however good he/she may individually be.
- croon 8y ago
  > Not likely. My sister teaches in a magnate school in a poor urban U.S. district. Couldn't we draw the conclusion then that wealth plays an important role? Which in turn also affects the pay of the teachers in the area, also affecting the quality of said teachers? > It's very depressing, and it has left many teachers bitter, burned out, and I suspect more racist. I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, but what I think is depressing is that it leads to racism, instead of anger over systemic inequality.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - your-nanny 8y ago
    The teachers who can't hack it, or don't care enough to stay at the bad schools leave. Good riddance, right? Most of the teachers at bad schools I've met are good teachers.
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    Wealth is highly predictive of educational attainment but I think there is more going on than just how much they can pay the teachers.
pbhjpbhj 8y ago
Disruptive behaviour is usually due to external factors I imagine - are you struggling with your parents' divorce, are you over tired from gaming all night, are you on drugs, suffering teen angst, ... Disruption because the class is above or below your level is also, to some extent, uncontrollable by the teacher - they have 30 kids (typically in UK) to cater to. Teachers can be entertaining, but that isn't always conducive to the subject matter.

DoofusOfDeath 8y ago

Not likely. My sister teaches in a magnate school in a poor urban U.S. district. The amount of bad behavior with which she must contend is shocking. It's entirely foreign to me from our childhood, and she has relatively little freedom in how she can handle chronically problematic students. If it is theoretically possible for the teachers to keep the disruption level low enough for much learning to happen, then the formula is a secret. It's very depressing, and it has left many teachers bitter, burned out, and I suspect more racist.

kinleyd 8y ago
Yes, I see what you mean - it's easy for the collective level of class disruption to overwhelm the teacher, however good he/she may individually be.
croon 8y ago
> Not likely. My sister teaches in a magnate school in a poor urban U.S. district. Couldn't we draw the conclusion then that wealth plays an important role? Which in turn also affects the pay of the teachers in the area, also affecting the quality of said teachers? > It's very depressing, and it has left many teachers bitter, burned out, and I suspect more racist. I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying, but what I think is depressing is that it leads to racism, instead of anger over systemic inequality.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- your-nanny 8y ago
  The teachers who can't hack it, or don't care enough to stay at the bad schools leave. Good riddance, right? Most of the teachers at bad schools I've met are good teachers.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  Wealth is highly predictive of educational attainment but I think there is more going on than just how much they can pay the teachers.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago

Disruptive behaviour is usually due to external factors I imagine - are you struggling with your parents' divorce, are you over tired from gaming all night, are you on drugs, suffering teen angst, ... Disruption because the class is above or below your level is also, to some extent, uncontrollable by the teacher - they have 30 kids (typically in UK) to cater to. Teachers can be entertaining, but that isn't always conducive to the subject matter.