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White kids already receive this kind of treatment signficantly more often than children of color. This underlies the aforementioned achievement gap. Curious --

White kids already receive this kind of treatment signficantly more often than children of color. This underlies the aforementioned achievement gap. Curious -- is this something that you're not aware of? I find it odd that you end your post with "of white students receive the same treatment?"

Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
No, I was not aware that poor white students receive twice as much schooling, free meals, free medical care, free dental care, free mental health care, and vouchers for food and transportation for their parents. I am very much interested in more information on this topic and will gladly receive any substantiation you can provide for your assertion.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- barrkel 8y ago
  There's a noxious odour of grievance emanating from your post.
- croon 8y ago
  Either you are misunderstanding, or you are being intentionally obtuse. On aggregate, the students receiving those perks are generally wealthy, and generally white. Of course there are wealthy black students, and poor white students, but the achievement gap isn't based in particulars, but in aggregates and statistics. Side note: I do realize that your alias is a play on Andrew Anglin, creator of neo-nazi website Daily Stormer. Very clever. You could do with being more subtle in your framing of these posts though.
  - Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
    I am to understand that white students, in aggregate, receive twice as much schooling as black students? And thus the black-white achievement gap?
    - lern_too_spel 8y ago
      No, you are to understand that white students in aggregate are the beneficiaries of privileges that in sum are equal to double schooling. A combination of (in aggregate) better educated parents, more at home supervision and guidance, more extracurricular educational enrichment, better nutrition, an environment of children improved with the previous privileges, etc. What's the alternative? That the black children are inherently less smart? The same used to be said of Asian kids, and that achievement gap persists for Asian kids who grow up in neighborhoods of other poor uneducated Asians. Meanwhile, Shanghai and Korea have shown that these kids can learn.
      - Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
        Why do you characterize normal parental investment as privilege? Is it to exculpate parents who neglect their children? Again, as the students in The Promise School not only enjoyed these "privileges" but also twice as much schooling, what would happen if all students received twice as much schooling? Does it stand to reason that the claimed success in closing the achievement gap would persist? In terms of resource allocation, why should some populations be excluded from receiving this additional benefit? I have never heard anyone express any prejudice toward "Asians" regarding a lack of intelligence. In fact, the usual stereotype is precisely the opposite.
        lern_too_spel 8y ago
        > Why do you characterize normal parental investment as privilege? Privilege: a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people. The children of educated parents have many advantages, some of which I have enumerated. Black children are born disproportionately to uneducated parents due to generations of denying blacks education followed by generations of denying them good education in an environment that is conducive to education (where there are multiple parents at home who can help, for example). > Again, as the students in The Promise School not only enjoyed these "privileges" but also twice as much schooling, what would happen if all students received twice as much schooling? As I already stated, white students in aggregate are already receiving more extracurricular educational enrichment. Adding more schooling would be substitutive with that additional education. > In terms of resource allocation, why should some populations be excluded from receiving this additional benefit? Excluded from what? This should be an option to anybody. White students in Harlem had the same access to these programs. > I have never heard anyone express any prejudice toward "Asians" regarding a lack of intelligence. The literacy rate in Korea was 22% at the conclusion of WW2, but Korea now performs near the top in international exams. Descendants of Chinese who arrived in the 19th century continue to perform poorly on intelligence tests, yet we see Hong Kong and Shanghai perform very well on those same tests. The 19th century stereotype of Chinese was of opium-addled superstitious barbarians.
  - CPLX 8y ago
    Perhaps you will be unsurprised to learn that this poster's first contribution to HN was, in fact, a multi-paragraph impassioned defense of said Nazi hate site: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16731182 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16731182
    - Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
      Please dispute a single fact. In fact, your comment is a lie as my first "contribution" was a simple one-line assertion based on information I happened to be aware of.[0] It was only after being prodded for substantiation that I bothered to type a whopping 3+ paragraphs of facts relating to the matter under discussion. [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16728884 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16728884
    - zingmars 8y ago
      These shaming tactics are not helpful, and to be quite honest it's kind of creepy that you actually went through his post history just to find some 'dirt' on this person.
      - DanBC 8y ago
        They are helpful. HN is being trolled by a polite racist. It's important that people know this, so they can avoid being trolled.
        CPLX 8y ago
        Indeed. I'm quite certain I'm under no obligation to engage with disingenuous neo-Nazi's on the internet, and I see little good that could possibly result from trying.
      - opportune 8y ago
        They absolutely are helpful. This website doesn’t need racists to try to recruit new people here by attempting to engage in “debate.” Look up Stormfront, what they believe, and how they try to “recruit”
    - 8y ago
  - sheepmullet 8y ago
    > Either you are misunderstanding, or you are being intentionally obtuse. Are you sure you aren't the one misunderstanding or being intentionally obtuse? It's called the black-white achievement gap. It is deliberately and for good reason not called the rich-poor achievement gap. There is a significant gap after adjusting for wealth and parents education levels.
- bo0tzz 8y ago
  They might not receive it for free, but they do receive it. Thus in the end there's still a gap.
  - Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
    Please substantiate your claim that poor white students receive these benefits, to include "twice as much" schooling.
- michaelt 8y ago
  malcolmgreaves didn't say anything about _poor_ white students. And it's well established that parents income and education level has a strong correlation with children's education and outcomes [1]. Of course, it's confusing to bring that into a discussion of this article, as the article says "Even accounting for a host of background factors, the achievement gap [between white and black students] remains large and statistically significant" [1] http://educationnext.org/how-family-background-influences-student-achievement/ http://educationnext.org/how-family-background-influences-st...
  - Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
    Yes, poor white students contribute to the black-white achievement gap despite being poor. That is precisely why I brought up that population.
sheepmullet 8y ago
You haven't answered his question. What exactly is the gap that has been closed? Is there still an achievement gap between these kids and white kids at similar high-involvement charter schools?

Andre_Wanglin 8y ago

No, I was not aware that poor white students receive twice as much schooling, free meals, free medical care, free dental care, free mental health care, and vouchers for food and transportation for their parents. I am very much interested in more information on this topic and will gladly receive any substantiation you can provide for your assertion.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
barrkel 8y ago
There's a noxious odour of grievance emanating from your post.
croon 8y ago
Either you are misunderstanding, or you are being intentionally obtuse. On aggregate, the students receiving those perks are generally wealthy, and generally white. Of course there are wealthy black students, and poor white students, but the achievement gap isn't based in particulars, but in aggregates and statistics. Side note: I do realize that your alias is a play on Andrew Anglin, creator of neo-nazi website Daily Stormer. Very clever. You could do with being more subtle in your framing of these posts though.
- Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
  I am to understand that white students, in aggregate, receive twice as much schooling as black students? And thus the black-white achievement gap?
  - lern_too_spel 8y ago
    No, you are to understand that white students in aggregate are the beneficiaries of privileges that in sum are equal to double schooling. A combination of (in aggregate) better educated parents, more at home supervision and guidance, more extracurricular educational enrichment, better nutrition, an environment of children improved with the previous privileges, etc. What's the alternative? That the black children are inherently less smart? The same used to be said of Asian kids, and that achievement gap persists for Asian kids who grow up in neighborhoods of other poor uneducated Asians. Meanwhile, Shanghai and Korea have shown that these kids can learn.
    - Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
      Why do you characterize normal parental investment as privilege? Is it to exculpate parents who neglect their children? Again, as the students in The Promise School not only enjoyed these "privileges" but also twice as much schooling, what would happen if all students received twice as much schooling? Does it stand to reason that the claimed success in closing the achievement gap would persist? In terms of resource allocation, why should some populations be excluded from receiving this additional benefit? I have never heard anyone express any prejudice toward "Asians" regarding a lack of intelligence. In fact, the usual stereotype is precisely the opposite.
      - lern_too_spel 8y ago
        > Why do you characterize normal parental investment as privilege? Privilege: a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people. The children of educated parents have many advantages, some of which I have enumerated. Black children are born disproportionately to uneducated parents due to generations of denying blacks education followed by generations of denying them good education in an environment that is conducive to education (where there are multiple parents at home who can help, for example). > Again, as the students in The Promise School not only enjoyed these "privileges" but also twice as much schooling, what would happen if all students received twice as much schooling? As I already stated, white students in aggregate are already receiving more extracurricular educational enrichment. Adding more schooling would be substitutive with that additional education. > In terms of resource allocation, why should some populations be excluded from receiving this additional benefit? Excluded from what? This should be an option to anybody. White students in Harlem had the same access to these programs. > I have never heard anyone express any prejudice toward "Asians" regarding a lack of intelligence. The literacy rate in Korea was 22% at the conclusion of WW2, but Korea now performs near the top in international exams. Descendants of Chinese who arrived in the 19th century continue to perform poorly on intelligence tests, yet we see Hong Kong and Shanghai perform very well on those same tests. The 19th century stereotype of Chinese was of opium-addled superstitious barbarians.
- CPLX 8y ago
  Perhaps you will be unsurprised to learn that this poster's first contribution to HN was, in fact, a multi-paragraph impassioned defense of said Nazi hate site: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16731182 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16731182
  - Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
    Please dispute a single fact. In fact, your comment is a lie as my first "contribution" was a simple one-line assertion based on information I happened to be aware of.[0] It was only after being prodded for substantiation that I bothered to type a whopping 3+ paragraphs of facts relating to the matter under discussion. [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16728884 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16728884
  - zingmars 8y ago
    These shaming tactics are not helpful, and to be quite honest it's kind of creepy that you actually went through his post history just to find some 'dirt' on this person.
    - DanBC 8y ago
      They are helpful. HN is being trolled by a polite racist. It's important that people know this, so they can avoid being trolled.
      - CPLX 8y ago
        Indeed. I'm quite certain I'm under no obligation to engage with disingenuous neo-Nazi's on the internet, and I see little good that could possibly result from trying.
    - opportune 8y ago
      They absolutely are helpful. This website doesn’t need racists to try to recruit new people here by attempting to engage in “debate.” Look up Stormfront, what they believe, and how they try to “recruit”
  - 8y ago
- sheepmullet 8y ago
  > Either you are misunderstanding, or you are being intentionally obtuse. Are you sure you aren't the one misunderstanding or being intentionally obtuse? It's called the black-white achievement gap. It is deliberately and for good reason not called the rich-poor achievement gap. There is a significant gap after adjusting for wealth and parents education levels.
bo0tzz 8y ago
They might not receive it for free, but they do receive it. Thus in the end there's still a gap.
- Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
  Please substantiate your claim that poor white students receive these benefits, to include "twice as much" schooling.
michaelt 8y ago
malcolmgreaves didn't say anything about _poor_ white students. And it's well established that parents income and education level has a strong correlation with children's education and outcomes [1]. Of course, it's confusing to bring that into a discussion of this article, as the article says "Even accounting for a host of background factors, the achievement gap [between white and black students] remains large and statistically significant" [1] http://educationnext.org/how-family-background-influences-student-achievement/ http://educationnext.org/how-family-background-influences-st...
- Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
  Yes, poor white students contribute to the black-white achievement gap despite being poor. That is precisely why I brought up that population.

sheepmullet 8y ago

You haven't answered his question. What exactly is the gap that has been closed? Is there still an achievement gap between these kids and white kids at similar high-involvement charter schools?