5 ms·

Not in dispute - the question wasn't whether life in the U.S. was getting better but whether it was getting shorter.

wallace_f 8y ago
Ok, but just personally I would say life expectancy / healthcare access are primary measures of 'is life getting better or worse' for people.
- microcolonel 8y ago
  It depends on whether the factors leading to shorter life are deliberate (or just willful) or accidental.
  - wallace_f 8y ago
    It's hard to flesh out self determination from ennvironmental factors. Not to sound overwhelmingly 'r/iam14andthisisdeep, but consider: 1) Nomadic hunter gatherers who have shortened their lifespans due to their lifestyle choices, or lack of choice/information in determining their lifestyle; and 2) App developers who may also have shortened their lifespan due to lifestyle choices, or even also lack of choice/information (ie sedentary lifestyle to afford rent/food/taxes/legal aid, sugar consumption due to inaccurate information from leading scientists regarding health risks). I just think we can't really know which one we'd prefer had we not experienced both.
    - Nomentatus 8y ago
      Nomadic hunters had quite long lifespans; agriculture introduced shorter lifespans and difficult lifestyles. We agree on point two though: Laws allowing no overtime for developers have allowed long work hours that we now know are very harmful.
      - microcolonel 8y ago
        > We agree on point two though: Laws allowing no overtime for developers have allowed long work hours that we now know are very harmful. Excuse me? Keep your grubby hands off my time. I alone should decide if, when, and how I sell my mortality for cold hard cash. Whether or not you think it's bad for me is of absolutely no importance to my right to do it.
- Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
  And what if both of those are caused by self-indulgence? Ballooning waistlines reducing lifespans while concomitantly causing healthcare shortages (because of high demand due to obesity-related chronic conditions) is definitely "getting worse" but it's an odd and self-inflicted sort of worse.
joe_the_user 8y ago
It's a fact, not a question, that US life expectancies have declined. The way the decline has happened, suicide and drug overdoses compensating for medical advances that normally provide a slow, steady increase in life expectancy in most countries, give a strong indication that life in the US has also gotten worse for a significant fraction of the population.

Ok, but just personally I would say life expectancy / healthcare access are primary measures of 'is life getting better or worse' for people.

microcolonel 8y ago
It depends on whether the factors leading to shorter life are deliberate (or just willful) or accidental.
- wallace_f 8y ago
  It's hard to flesh out self determination from ennvironmental factors. Not to sound overwhelmingly 'r/iam14andthisisdeep, but consider: 1) Nomadic hunter gatherers who have shortened their lifespans due to their lifestyle choices, or lack of choice/information in determining their lifestyle; and 2) App developers who may also have shortened their lifespan due to lifestyle choices, or even also lack of choice/information (ie sedentary lifestyle to afford rent/food/taxes/legal aid, sugar consumption due to inaccurate information from leading scientists regarding health risks). I just think we can't really know which one we'd prefer had we not experienced both.
  - Nomentatus 8y ago
    Nomadic hunters had quite long lifespans; agriculture introduced shorter lifespans and difficult lifestyles. We agree on point two though: Laws allowing no overtime for developers have allowed long work hours that we now know are very harmful.
    - microcolonel 8y ago
      > We agree on point two though: Laws allowing no overtime for developers have allowed long work hours that we now know are very harmful. Excuse me? Keep your grubby hands off my time. I alone should decide if, when, and how I sell my mortality for cold hard cash. Whether or not you think it's bad for me is of absolutely no importance to my right to do it.
Andre_Wanglin 8y ago
And what if both of those are caused by self-indulgence? Ballooning waistlines reducing lifespans while concomitantly causing healthcare shortages (because of high demand due to obesity-related chronic conditions) is definitely "getting worse" but it's an odd and self-inflicted sort of worse.

joe_the_user 8y ago

It's a fact, not a question, that US life expectancies have declined. The way the decline has happened, suicide and drug overdoses compensating for medical advances that normally provide a slow, steady increase in life expectancy in most countries, give a strong indication that life in the US has also gotten worse for a significant fraction of the population.