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People using Venmo to spy on cheating spouses

173 points by maxshmax 8y ago

kinsomo 8y ago
It boggles my mind that anyone would want to stream their payment history publicly.
- anaonmous32rt4 8y ago
  I agree. This makes me feel old now, and I'm in my early 30s. My wife has access to all my financial information, but I can't imagine sharing it publicly!
- booleandilemma 8y ago
  Especially when “the wrong word could get you in trouble”: https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_571f8057e4b01a5ebde34b97/amp https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_571f8057e4b01a5ebde34b97/...
  - cortesoft 8y ago
    It is so ridiculous that the comment for a payment would be used against someone. Writing jokes in the 'for' line on a check is a time honored tradition when paying your friends money. I don't want to live in a world where I am not allowed to make jokes because it might get me a visit from the FBI.
    - gowld 8y ago
      Making jokes in private is fine. But publicly declaring an intent to violate the law is a joke that is going to get attention from law-enforcement unless they can be convinced it's a joke.
      - lostlogin 8y ago
        Guilty until proven funny?
      - CydeWeys 8y ago
        Which is exactly why random bullshit payments shouldn't be public, and why Venmo defaulting to it (or even having it be an option) makes no sense.
      - freeflight 8y ago
        Quite relevant: "Caution on Twitter urged as tourists barred from US." http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-16810312 http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-16810312
      - recursive 8y ago
        The very point in question is about whether this information is public.
      - SilasX 8y ago
        "Cuba" is not declaring intent to violate the law, and investigating such a case seems like a poor use of law enforcement resources, since a) there are many legal transactions describable as "Cuba", and b) it depends on the violators being overt about their lawbreaking. The payer could very well be referring to drinks at the Cuba Libre bar, or tickets for the Cuba Gooding Jr. movie/show.
    - etxm 8y ago
      I used to write vulgar stuff in the memo line like “hookers” or “blow”. Stupid college shit. One day my bank called me and said if I did it again they’d cancel my account. I asked the rep her name and promised to stop... I wrote “fuck you sarah” for two years until I changed banks.
      - kazinator 8y ago
        Sarah got punished twice there. First, being the one who had to make this unpleasant phone call, and then being the target of these notes.
        d0lph 8y ago
        I think calling people was probably part of her job.
        odammit 8y ago
        As noted below it wasn’t a company policy she didn’t personally like seeing things like “emergency eunuch surgery” on checks. She said she would make it a policy. All bark, no bite.
      - ShabbosGoy 8y ago
        What an odd thing for a bank to do, police how someone uses a memo line in a check. At least you got your revenge on them.
        toomuchtodo 8y ago
        It's my understanding that Venmo will flag transactions with certain words in the memo. "I Tried to Venmo $12.66 for 'ISIS' and the Government Was Pissed It turns out the Treasury Department doesn't appreciate my sense of humor." https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5gqyzd/i-tried-to-venmo-1266-for-isis-and-the-government-was-pissed https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5gqyzd/i-tried-to-venmo-1...
        Apocryphon 8y ago
    - Paul-ish 8y ago
      Why is it important to put jokes there? I view a check as a pseudo-legal document. Do you slip jokes into the contracts you sign?
      - RandallBrown 8y ago
        I draw smiley faces on the signature line at stores and restaurants pretty often.
      - function_seven 8y ago
        A long time ago, checks had to be deposited at a bank counter, in person. If I wanted to embarrass my payee, I'd write something risque or vulgar in the memo line. That way they would have to suffer that embarrassment if they wanted my money. Yeah, it's juvenile. I don't understand why the FBI would care though. There's a 0% chance that a real terrorist is writing "ISIS" on their checks to fund terror.
      - DSMan195276 8y ago
        I would agree, I don't really understand the logic in this thread. You're literally giving the check to a bank who is then going to have read it and look at what it's for and who you're sending the money too - and part of their job is to decide if it is legitimate, or if they should ask you about it, etc. If you put something extremely suspicious or flat-out illegal in the memo line, I would presume they're obligated to at least report it, or else they could be on the hook if it turns out it was actually true and they let it go with no questions asked.
    - jliptzin 8y ago
      Too late, you already live in that world.
    - marssaxman 8y ago
      I don't want to live in that kind of world either, but it goes on existing around me all the same.
  - closeparen 8y ago
    A friend in college got a fun letter from the Comptroller of the Currency after writing “A Night in Tehran” on a reimbursement for Iranian food in Chicago.
    - froindt 8y ago
      Did that happen to be the name of the restaurant?
- justboxing 8y ago
  Apparently people -- even the so called "Smart ones" at Harvard -- just submit their private, personal info. > Zuck: Yeah so if you ever need info about anyone at Harvard > Zuck: Just ask. > Zuck: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SNS > [Redacted Friend's Name]: What? How'd you manage that one? > Zuck: People just submitted it. > Zuck: I don't know why. > Zuck: They "trust me" > Zuck: Dumb fucks. Source: Mark Zuckerberg Called People Who Handed Over Their Data "Dumb F_cks" => https://www.esquire.com/uk/latest-news/a19490586/mark-zuckerberg-called-people-who-handed-over-their-data-dumb-f/ https://www.esquire.com/uk/latest-news/a19490586/mark-zucker...
  - ggg9990 8y ago
    In Facebook’s early days, everything you put on the site was shared with your friends. So it was not “private, personal, info” but rather the opposite — information that users wanted to publicize widely. I have never put anything on Facebook that I care whether Mark Zuckerberg reads or not. It would be weird and creepy, for sure, if he was looking at pictures of my baby, but I willingly shared those with over a thousand people so am happy to share with one more.
    - justboxing 8y ago
      > So it was not “private, personal, info” but rather the opposite — information that users wanted to publicize widely SSN is not private, personal info? I've never met anyone online or offline who wanted to publicize their SSN widely. Oh wait... that LifeLock dude.... https://www.wired.com/2010/05/lifelock-identity-theft/ https://www.wired.com/2010/05/lifelock-identity-theft/
      - wgerard 8y ago
        SNS, not SSNs. SNS almost certainly refers to either: 1) Student numbers 2) Screen names (like for AIM)
      - yayadarsh 8y ago
        SNS is meant to mean SN's, or "screennames". This (now-outdated) term refers to messenger accounts (AIM/ICQ) in the pre-Facebook world.
- SirYandi 8y ago
  Indeed. My guess behind the attraction to such a service would be that a public spending feed could make one more conservative for fear of judgement. Although if its solely for bill-splitting I have no idea why it is public. Surely people's spending history has some value en-masse, why make that public?
- Apocryphon 8y ago
  I interviewed at PayPal in 2012, and one of the engineering managers there mentioned the concept of social mobile payments- imagine you pay for a beer at a bar, and it shows up in your feed. I was utterly unconvinced by the idea. It felt cargo cult, adding social for the sake of it. A few years later, Venmo goes big among millennials, and later on PayPal buys them. Go figure.
- gkoberger 8y ago
  Hmm, I think most people use it to pay friends back for brunch or drinks. It's not like you're streaming all your credit card purchases. It's kinda like checking in on Foursquare with friends... it's a public way to expose your social graph a bit. It may not be for you, but people love social media. To put it a different way: it's so successful because, despite there being lots of ways to pay back friends, none of the other ones let you subtly brag that you're out having fun.
  - thekingofh 8y ago
    Ugh.
  - smacktoward 8y ago
    > It may not be for you, but people love social media People also love heroin and alcohol and tobacco. People love lots of things that are terrible for them.
    - bduerst 8y ago
      People also love exercise, healthy food, and sleep. I don't think payments is something that is social worthy, but comparing them to chemically-addicting substances is a little absurd.
      - musage 8y ago
        That people like something doesn't mean it's good for them, or even makes them happy: anything that some people really like and that is undoubtedly harmful can serve to prove that point. It doesn't put social media and heroin "in the same ballpark", it doesn't even say social media is harmful, it just says the fact that some people like it isn't saying a lot in itself. (I might add, especially not when it comes in the form of "you don't love it but people love it".)
    - gkoberger 8y ago
      If you think letting your friends know you just had brunch is on par with heroin or alcohol... well, damn. I think social media can be unhealthy, and I think the pendulum is beginning to swing back the other way, but I support exploring new ways to communicate with the people around you.
- ng12 8y ago
  Why not? It seems to be a pretty popular feature -- lots of people post things to be funny and/or brag about their lives. Most of social media exists for people to broadcast their experiences.
- gregoriol 8y ago
  Technically, that the thing with Bitcoin and other blockchain currencies
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- DesiLurker 8y ago
  something something bitcoin
- harryh 8y ago
  It's not hard to understand. My feed is mostly "friends only" but there are a few public posts too, let's have a look: https://venmo.com/harryh https://venmo.com/harryh 1. Tickets for a band. That's cool. 2. Clearly something amusing about jail. 3. A computer. Computers are fun. 4. MEAT 5. Sci Fi movies. Movies are fun. People do this for the same reason they use twitter or facebook or instagram. To share what they are doing in their life with their friends. Most payments aren't top secret stuff, they're just little notes about people's social life.
owly 8y ago
Wow. Why the hell would anyone use Venmo?
- hoffbrau99 8y ago
  It is a cultural/generational thing. Millenials don't think twice about this. They are shocked that anyone would care. Non-millennials are shocked that anyone would share their financials publicly. We're all shocked at each other's behavior.
  - X-Istence 8y ago
    Excuse me... but as a millennial, and knowing many other millennials that also care, we do absolutely care. There is a long list of people that I know that don't use Venmo because of the "social" crap. Please don't try to brush this as a "millennials don't care".
    - coupdejarnac 8y ago
      Is it necessary to take offense at every general statement? If millennials are the primary users of this product, then what he says is true. It's really tedious to have to couch every general statement in terms that allow for exceptions.
    - aphextron 8y ago
      >Excuse me... but as a millennial, and knowing many other millennials that also care, we do absolutely care. I think by Millenials he really meant to say Gen Z. "Millenials" has become a catch-all term for "young people" over the past 10 years, but the reality is that we are no longer the youngest generation. Older folks just haven't caught up to that fact yet. Anyone below age 25 now is a completely different generation from us. "Getting" Snapchat and Venmo seems to be the dividing line.
simonsarris 8y ago
Cash App (by Square) cares more about your privacy, has more perks, and is IMO from a much better company than PayPal. https://cash.app/ https://cash.app/ They also are doing a lot more. Cash App issues a debit card and allows ATM withdrawals and direct deposit. In effect, they've become a pop-up bank to the under-banked.
- jzebedee 8y ago
  Square Cash is every bit as bad as PayPal during their early "paypalsucks" days, complete with opaque "security" policies and unreachable support. I have had multiple Cash accounts (one business, a couple personal) which have been stuck in limbo for more than a year. At some point, a transaction must have flagged me because Square reverted all of my recent transactions, locked my funds, and won't process any incoming or outgoing transactions on ANY of my accounts. I've contacted support over and over through their tool, and I have gotten ZERO response. Not even a formulaic "you're off the platform" email. There's no phone support for Square Cash, so outside of my emails going into a black hole, there is no way to get a human to review any of it. I have given up. If the filing fee for a small claims case wasn't higher than the cash I still had left in there, I would have sued them long ago. They are every bit as shady and uncommunicative as PayPal and I would never trust them with my money again.
anothergoogler 8y ago
Nothing in the article about "cheating spouses."
- craftyguy 8y ago
  > But Venmo users have found it’s also an extremely effective tool for keeping tabs on friends, partners and exes, researching crushes, and in some cases, uncovering infidelity.
  - anothergoogler 8y ago
    That line and the article title are unsubstantiated. The three interviews are with two young college students and one 28 year-old guy whose ex-BF has a coke problem. Unless I missed it, there's nothing in the article about a cheating spouse.
    - gowld 8y ago
      It's just HN's daily 2minutes clickbait.
  - svnsets 8y ago
    “Not that I care,” she said. “It’s just interesting to see.”
gnicholas 8y ago
When I first created a Venmo account, I was shocked to see users' payments flowing through my feed and immediately found a way to make my payments private. But I could never find a way to effectively unlink the social media account (FB) that I had used to find my first friend/payee. I think I unlinked the account, but I still see payments from all the people that Venmo made me follow as a result of linking the now-unlinked FB account. I haven't used the app in a long time, and I wonder if this mass-unfollow feature has been added. I know they think that people open Venmo to check their feed, but some people find the public feed creepy, and it makes me use the app less in favor of alternatives.
- strifey 8y ago
  I recently went through and unfollowed 100+ people because there's still no mass-unfollow feature :(
- dfee 8y ago
  I had no idea you could make your payments “private” by default. Indeed you can, and you can mark all past payments as private by going (on iOS) to: Settings -> Privacy -> Private and Settings -> Privacy -> Past Transactions -> Change All to Private I always had feared I’d forget to set my transactions as private.
- ilamont 8y ago
  I was also shocked, and immediately set it to private. I registered using an email address (as I do for practically every online service I use) so I don't have to deal with the Facebook dimension. However, for the handful of people I regularly send money to, I can see all of their transactions on the home screen, including business fees (which reveals the freelance rates they charge), family loans, etc. I take it they have not limited their transactions to "private". Regardless, I am amazed that Venmo/PayPal thought sharing payment activity would be a good idea.
  - yaur 8y ago
    If it is not private it's a valid thing to use for ad targeting.
slow_donkey 8y ago
It takes a few clicks to make everything private. Either way, I deleted my account last week because Venmo is killing their website and forcing Android/iOS only. I'm not even sure why Venmo caught on, it is the worst option out of all the possible payment systems (fb, Google pay, sq cash...) since they don't deposit cash received into your bank account and rather hold it interest free.
- hkmurakami 8y ago
  Imo purely user experience and maybe first mover / network effects. I know it's the worst option yet it continues to be the go-to option because it's the most likely service that random friend A or B will have.
- eagsalazar2 8y ago
  This!! Why why why do people even like Venmo? It is such a bad product and the basic premise of social payments is just totally nuts.
  - matte_black 8y ago
    I’ll tell you one reason why, and maybe your curiosity will lead you down further rabbit holes. I use Venmo exclusively for sending money to girls from Tinder. If you look at my stream, you’ll see transactions sending money to tons of babes, often with suggestive comments. Other girls sometimes see this, and decide they too want in on the action. Pretty great what giving out some dollars on the internet can do for your rep. For a developer making six figures in Silicon Valley, it should be no big deal at all.
    - hoffbrau99 8y ago
      That's brilliant
    - chrshawkes 8y ago
      Do you mean sending money to prostitutes? I try to avoid those on Tinder.
nailer 8y ago
Come from a country where people don't use Venmo, and was astounded to read: > Some users seem to forget that their transactions are public by default Well that's (expletive). Secure defaults anyone?
- mipmap04 8y ago
  While it is weird, it's worth noting that the transaction information it shows just shows who paid who and an optional narrative. They don't show actual dollar amounts. That being said, you can always post privately. Not sure why people post publicly.
  - gowld 8y ago
    It's still insane to make that public by default.
    - nailer 8y ago
      Was going to reply but you've basically said it. You could pay an ex-partner when you're not supposed to be seing them, a liquor store when you're supposed to be sober, or a sex worker when you're supposed to be ashamed. Not showing dollar amounts doesn't make this sane.
- Fnoord 8y ago
  Sane defaults, rather. It is annoying how stuff on Facebook is by default shared with "Public", how applications install malware/adware by default, any advertising-related opt-out. Only positive thing I can say is "they're not the only ones". But that doesn't make it right (Whataboutism). Sad truth is, the software developers or the companies hiring them get away with such immoral choices.
  - SilasX 8y ago
    >It is annoying how stuff on Facebook is by default shared with "Public", It does? Mine currently defaults to "friends", and I'm pretty sure the default is just "whatever your last choice was" -- if I set my last one to public, then next time the default value is public.
paulie_a 8y ago
Venmo is owned by PayPal therefore it is garbage and should be avoided.
- dang 8y ago
  Maybe so, but please don't post unsubstantive comments here.
45h34jh53k4j 8y ago
Who would use Venmo? When I see people buying drugs (see vicemo.com), I shake my head at the stupidity of it all. I have been asked multiple times by people who want to pay me, and I have flatted refused because of there approach to financial privacy. I try to get them to stop using it also, for their own privacy. Lucky we have other options -- I usually get them into cryptocurrency instead. Hey -- its also open by default, but at least its hard to correlate an address to a person.
- odonnellryan 8y ago
  I'd assume 99% of these are jokes.
  - 45h34jh53k4j 8y ago
    True, but its a shame the authorities have no sense of humor.
- gowld 8y ago
  99% of those "people buying drugs" aren't buying drugs. It reports anything with "drink", "speed", "grass", or "dope", and obvious jokes.
  - 45h34jh53k4j 8y ago
    Right, but its just so stupid! People think they are being clever or funny. Its as clever as going into a police station and admitting your crimes. Cool joke!
fermienrico 8y ago
In this thread - "You can do X to make it private." In my view, that is not addressing the main issue with Venmo. Socializing financial transactions shouldn't have taken off from back of the napkin stage. It is simply unbelievable on 2 fronts: 1) Such an app exists and is doing fine 2) People simply do not care about their privacy. I am utterly speechless. Who in the right mind opens up Venmo to just browse what kind of transactions are being made amongst their friends? What kind of social engagement is this? How did the creators of Venmo pitched this idea to investors? So many questions.
- 45h34jh53k4j 8y ago
  Its the world we have made. We make a whole generation of people not care for privacy (FB), and then we are surprised when people assume their finances are not private? We are all collectively to blame for such privacy failures. The users/victims are simply that, victims of our troubled privacy-less future.
- trhway 8y ago
  "hook them while they're young". With FB/Snap/(whatever teenagers are using these days as closing upon 50 i seem to just don't know :) being probably the gateway drugs.
- Zarath 8y ago
  I use Venmo and immediately set my preferences to private. Admittedly though, I will browse through the public transactions of my friends out of interest in what they are up to.
- iamjaredwalters 8y ago
  Venmo solved the pain points of easily transferring money between acquaintances regardless of the financial institutions that money may reside in. Having social interaction in their app is a side affect or the purpose, not the purpose itself.
draw_down 8y ago
This feature is completely nuts. Completely. I can't believe people want any of their payment activity showing up in a public feed. Just, no.
- twostorytower 8y ago
  Not defending this, but I think the default setting is "Friends". So it's semi-public. But people are generically paying friends back for meals. You can understand why a lot of people wouldn't think of this as a big deal.
  - draw_down 8y ago
    I think the "not a big deal" nature of such things is what contributes to them being so potentially insidious; if it was obviously a bad idea nobody would do it. But all the little drips and drops of data you leave around everywhere can add up to something not pretty. I also think I would argue "friends" is basically the same thing as being fully public. Most people have hundreds or thousands of FB "friends".
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
djrogers 8y ago
> Some users seem to forget that their transactions are public by default, and their payment activity provides an unfiltered paper trail of what’s really happening in their lives. This is it in a nutshell - nobody pays attention to privacy settings, and they don't think about the consequences of the fact that they can see other people payments scroll by on their screens.
- dpflan 8y ago
  I agree. I think there may be social pressure (implied, inherent, made-up) or laziness or unawareness that perpetuates this. You can make private the default setting. The idea of broadcasting your finances only makes sense for social messaging/indicating.
Paul-ish 8y ago
Something about this reads like a viral ad for Venmo. It's as if it is trying to draw you in to the app to see what your friends are doing.
- wxuan 8y ago
  If it is, its a damn good one!
joelrunyon 8y ago
Is there a simple way to turn off the "feed" function?
BookmarkSaver 8y ago
Guys, people aren't "exposing their finances" on Venmo. People don't use it to buy stuff, or pay off CC bills, or anything. Nor are the transaction amounts exposed. It's used for balancing payments/debts between individuals. I don't consider "A paid B for brunch yesterday" or "X paid Y for Rent+cable" in any way to be "exposing finances". It's just another random (albeit unnecessary) social network, one that takes literally no effort to use or disable. Shocking, young people don't care if others know that they went out to dinner with some friends. It's amazing to me that this level of exposure seems "nuts" to you all and leaves you "speechless". Like, how paranoid and antisocial are you all? Who cares about this stuff? Or is this all just some crazy slippery-slope thing going on in your heads?
- gmjoe 8y ago
  Thank you... also I'm not sure people realize that you type the description of the transaction, it's not coming from a credit card or something, so you can be as specific/vague/nonsensical/misleading as you want...
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  It's amazing to me that this level of exposure seems "nuts" to you all and leaves you "speechless". I'm old. I'm very painfully aware that other people often feel amazingly entitled to have some say in how I spend my life. I have spent a lot of decades arranging a life in which, no, not too many people have any say whatsoever. It's possible that the youth of today are experiencing an unprecedented amount of (social) freedom that their cranky elders lack. If so, good for you. It's also possible that you just haven't yet figured out that information is power, hell is other people and there are lots of crazies in the world who feel incredibly entitled to try to enforce some standard of behavior on you that you won't notice until you try to do something they don't like for some reason, no matter how innocuous.
  - BookmarkSaver 8y ago
    What experience do you "cranky elders" have that makes this seem dangerous? What possible malicious intent can be applied to the knowledge that someone shares rent with their roommate, or the occasional bar tab settlement? There aren't even dollar amounts attached, and usually just cryptic emoji messages. Just saying "Information is power" makes it sound like there's been no thought put into the objection at all, I've not seen a single concrete explanation as to how this level of data collection is or could be dangerous. It seems like cowardly hiding behind a blanket principle because of paranoia about anything that can possibly be related to "privacy". >I'm very painfully aware that other people often feel amazingly entitled to have some say in how I spend my life. I have spent a lot of decades arranging a life in which, no, not too many people have any say whatsoever. I have absolutely no clue how this has anything to do with Venmo whatsoever.
Sol- 8y ago
This article has an interesting (and strange) take on the issue, mostly, though with some reservations, characterizing the lack of privacy as something empowering. I liked the anecdotes about people digitally stalking their partners and friends. I guess you can make that argument if you believe that some aspects a post-privacy world is something positive, but it is still strange to read.
a-dub 8y ago
Every time I encounter venmo whoever has it usually apologizes for it and explains that you can turn the weird social stuff off. If that's the case, then what's the point? Moreover, it demonstrates that the people who made it have weird philosophies on things. What other choices have they made that I don't know of, can't turn off and would disagree with? Square Cash is great, btw. No bloat, very simple, does what you expect it to. (I suppose PayPal is looking that way now these days too though)
- tetromino_ 8y ago
  Square Cash may have less bloat and a far nicer UI, but it charges a percentage for instant deposit, while Venmo has a flat $0.25 fee. So when you don't want to wait three days to get the money to your bank account, you grit your teeth and use Venmo.
- X-Istence 8y ago
  IIRC you can in Venmo say that its private and thus turn off the weird social thing per payment: https://imgur.com/She6BGE https://imgur.com/She6BGE You can also change the default, although that seems to be an option I don't remember having when I first started using the app... That is located in Settings -> Privacy... although you get a popup saying "You know you can change this per payment, you sure you want to do this" which to me feels weird and pushy. I agree with Square Cash or other services, instead of Venmo since the whole idea of by default sharing my payments feels weird. Apple Pay works really well too if you and the recipient are both Apple users.
wand3r 8y ago
Tt
duxup 8y ago
So by default it doesn't say how much you pay or what for... is it supposed to be kinda weirdly mysterious? Also it's kinda funny how money is being used to track cheating here. Outside splitting a bill (we just split it then and there) ... I can't imagine any transactions were tied directly to my SO as in handing over money... maybe that is a generational thing.
u90g4u8904 8y ago
People who like the social feature of venmo: Can you explain why you enjoy monitoring financial transactions between your friends? I'm genuinely perplexed. Is this just a new norm that's emerging in our culture? In my circle of friends, this behavior would be, at least, uninteresting, and at most, intrusive.
- shmerl 8y ago
  Sounds like snooping feature.
makecheck 8y ago
The whole feed just makes no sense. I will never care if person X just paid person Y, even if I know them and certainly if I don’t.
monochromatic 8y ago
Holy shit, I didn’t realize this is how Venmo works. I was just thinking last week that I should open an account for sending money to friends to settle small balances... but now I don’t want anything to do with the service.
turc1656 8y ago
I am embarrassed (yet again) to admit I am part of the Millennial generation. My generation has effectively destroyed every aspect of both privacy and human interaction. It's truly pathetic.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
jedberg 8y ago
In use Venmo to pay my babysitter. By default when you open the app, it shows the social feed. It’s true, I learn new things about my friends every time I open the app. Sometimes some fairly embarrassing things. Despite the fact that we have a babysitter isn’t private, I still always keep the transaction private.
crazygringo 8y ago
There are so many comments here from people not understanding why anybody would ever want their history to be public, or shocked that that's the default... Here's the thing: you get to type whatever you want, so you turn everything into jokes. Because it's public, you get to make up things that will embarrass your friend. Cryptic emoji. It's fun. It's just silly. When you pay back friends at a bar, you can browse their history and make fun of them. None of the other payment platforms are fun like that!
- monocasa 8y ago
  Well, you can't have too much fun. If you put something like "ISIS recruitment dues", you can get the money frozen.
- pacetherace 8y ago
  Financial transactions are covered by a lot of complex laws and regulations. A bad joke may end up costing a lot of time and money to clear your name. It is equivalent to prank calling cops and telling them that a friend sexually assaulted you. Usually, stupid financial transactions bite you at the most inopportune times like when you apply for home mortgages or deal with immigration issues.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - iamjaredwalters 8y ago
    Drawing a comparison between a comment sent to a friend (a communication between two parties that ostensibly know each other) and prank calling the cops is a bit far fetched.
    - jasonjayr 8y ago
      You are not wrong, but anytime you involve a third party in your transaction, especially when it comes to money, they take responsibility for that transfer, and ensuring it complies with all relevant laws. Cash is still king.
coupdejarnac 8y ago
Add me to the list of people who were horrified to see a social feed when I signed up for Venmo. Ain't no way I'm ever going to use it. Though I suppose it would be interesting to see what other people are paying for/getting paid for. Perhaps I know some drug dealers or "professional girlfriends", etc.
- iamjaredwalters 8y ago
  You may be disappointed. Drug dealers and professional girlfriends are likely still uninterested in paper trails and paying taxes on income.
  - coupdejarnac 8y ago
    You say that as if there aren't thousands of examples out there.
    - iamjaredwalters 8y ago
      You have thousands of drug dealers and prostitutes in your feed?!
jonahhorowitz 8y ago
Venmo is evil. They have this whole concept of socializing how we spend money. They're onboarding merchants like they're going to replace credit cards. I don't want my money in a "Venmo account." I want it in my bank account. I don't need all my friends knowing who I'm paying back, and for what. The only time I've used it in the past year is when a guy at a gas station asked to borrow $20 to fill his tank and he paid me back with Venmo. I was worried it was a scam, but it worked out okay. Cash is still king.
partycoder 8y ago
Venmo should accept the rejection of a payment. Someone can publicly send you a payment with any arbitrary message and there is NO way for you to avoid it other than to send the money back.
azurelogic 8y ago
This page was immediately taken over by the ad redirects for free iPhones and crap. Can we get this replaced with a not shady source?
batbomb 8y ago
I'm going to call out AirBnB on this one too. You end up seeing the activities of anyone who has ever tagged you as being part of a trip, even if you haven't signed up for the platform. Worse, you cannot make any part of your AirBnB history private. I'm also not aware if there's a way to separate business from personal accounts other than to sign up twice. I suppose eBay was historically similar, but even with eBay there wasn't this social connectedness aspect that you couldn't quite escape. I understand the review aspect. It's really strange to not have the option of privacy.
lyricaljoke 8y ago
What a lot of people miss about the utility of Venmo is that it lowers the social cost of squaring up minor debts. Think of the example of a large group of friends often gathers in arbitrary subsets of the group to go to dinner. If Alice orders salad every time and Bob orders steak, and we split it down the middle each time, that kind of sucks for Alice. Some people suggest rotating picking up the entire bill between outings, but I'm unconvinced that this really ends up working out equitably in practice. Or, say Dora has a habit of leaving happy hour after the first round, which was picked up by Charlie. It's not a huge cost, but... In a world without instant electronic payment, the meek Alices and Charlies of the world lose out because there's a social cost to asking somebody to repay a small debt (paying <$10 by cash is a hassle). By making these frictionless, I'd argue that Venmo reduces that cost by providing an easy way to equitably split without levying the inconvenience on the restaurant, as with separate checks.
adjkant 8y ago
As someone who uses Venmo regularly and with friends who all have accounts they use regularly, to summarize many of the points below: 1. No one asked for this. This is Paypal trying to make a payments app social and people staying for the payments app despite the social feed. 2. So long as you can change the defaults, no one cares about if the company has sane default settings etc. Millenials / Gen Z care about privacy and most of my friends default to private. A company's defaults is not reflective of the privacy concerns of users because they know they have the better product. 3. Venmo messages are often jokes and payment amounts aren't shown even when public/friends https://qz.com/359903/the-emoji-of-venmo/ https://qz.com/359903/the-emoji-of-venmo/ 4. Square just didn't catch on and Venmo's integration with other apps makes it locked in (Splitwise and Tab to name two main ones. My friends refer to Venmo and those two as the payments holy trinity) 5. This article is crap and no one I know looks at the feed. If you're dumb enough to cheat and use a public Venmo payment, wow. When I hit it on the splash page I see payments from a few people, nothing more interesting than pizza, rent, or utilities. Incredible, I know people have basic functions! The privacy invasion! 6. Most people I know transfer to their bank immediately. The intermediary step is a pain but far less than using any other payment service. I'll get over not earning my .03% interest at my bank and letting Venmo skim the interest on their end to keep the service free. Yes customer service is crap and so is Paypal generally but the reality is that it removes far more pain in life than it creates.
- inteleng 8y ago
  > 1. No one asked for this. This is Paypal trying to make a payments app social and people staying for the payments app despite the social feed. PayPal acquired Venmo through their acquisition of Braintree.
  - adjkant 8y ago
    I'm aware - is there a contradiction above? I didn't mean to imply this is new.
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173 points by maxshmax 8y ago

kinsomo 8y ago

It boggles my mind that anyone would want to stream their payment history publicly.

anaonmous32rt4 8y ago
I agree. This makes me feel old now, and I'm in my early 30s. My wife has access to all my financial information, but I can't imagine sharing it publicly!
booleandilemma 8y ago
Especially when “the wrong word could get you in trouble”: https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_571f8057e4b01a5ebde34b97/amp https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_571f8057e4b01a5ebde34b97/...
- cortesoft 8y ago
  It is so ridiculous that the comment for a payment would be used against someone. Writing jokes in the 'for' line on a check is a time honored tradition when paying your friends money. I don't want to live in a world where I am not allowed to make jokes because it might get me a visit from the FBI.
  - gowld 8y ago
    Making jokes in private is fine. But publicly declaring an intent to violate the law is a joke that is going to get attention from law-enforcement unless they can be convinced it's a joke.
    - lostlogin 8y ago
      Guilty until proven funny?
    - CydeWeys 8y ago
      Which is exactly why random bullshit payments shouldn't be public, and why Venmo defaulting to it (or even having it be an option) makes no sense.
    - freeflight 8y ago
      Quite relevant: "Caution on Twitter urged as tourists barred from US." http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-16810312 http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-16810312
    - recursive 8y ago
      The very point in question is about whether this information is public.
    - SilasX 8y ago
      "Cuba" is not declaring intent to violate the law, and investigating such a case seems like a poor use of law enforcement resources, since a) there are many legal transactions describable as "Cuba", and b) it depends on the violators being overt about their lawbreaking. The payer could very well be referring to drinks at the Cuba Libre bar, or tickets for the Cuba Gooding Jr. movie/show.
  - etxm 8y ago
    I used to write vulgar stuff in the memo line like “hookers” or “blow”. Stupid college shit. One day my bank called me and said if I did it again they’d cancel my account. I asked the rep her name and promised to stop... I wrote “fuck you sarah” for two years until I changed banks.
    - kazinator 8y ago
      Sarah got punished twice there. First, being the one who had to make this unpleasant phone call, and then being the target of these notes.
      - d0lph 8y ago
        I think calling people was probably part of her job.
      - odammit 8y ago
        As noted below it wasn’t a company policy she didn’t personally like seeing things like “emergency eunuch surgery” on checks. She said she would make it a policy. All bark, no bite.
    - ShabbosGoy 8y ago
      What an odd thing for a bank to do, police how someone uses a memo line in a check. At least you got your revenge on them.
      - toomuchtodo 8y ago
        It's my understanding that Venmo will flag transactions with certain words in the memo. "I Tried to Venmo $12.66 for 'ISIS' and the Government Was Pissed It turns out the Treasury Department doesn't appreciate my sense of humor." https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5gqyzd/i-tried-to-venmo-1266-for-isis-and-the-government-was-pissed https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5gqyzd/i-tried-to-venmo-1...
        Apocryphon 8y ago
  - Paul-ish 8y ago
    Why is it important to put jokes there? I view a check as a pseudo-legal document. Do you slip jokes into the contracts you sign?
    - RandallBrown 8y ago
      I draw smiley faces on the signature line at stores and restaurants pretty often.
    - function_seven 8y ago
      A long time ago, checks had to be deposited at a bank counter, in person. If I wanted to embarrass my payee, I'd write something risque or vulgar in the memo line. That way they would have to suffer that embarrassment if they wanted my money. Yeah, it's juvenile. I don't understand why the FBI would care though. There's a 0% chance that a real terrorist is writing "ISIS" on their checks to fund terror.
    - DSMan195276 8y ago
      I would agree, I don't really understand the logic in this thread. You're literally giving the check to a bank who is then going to have read it and look at what it's for and who you're sending the money too - and part of their job is to decide if it is legitimate, or if they should ask you about it, etc. If you put something extremely suspicious or flat-out illegal in the memo line, I would presume they're obligated to at least report it, or else they could be on the hook if it turns out it was actually true and they let it go with no questions asked.
  - jliptzin 8y ago
    Too late, you already live in that world.
  - marssaxman 8y ago
    I don't want to live in that kind of world either, but it goes on existing around me all the same.
- closeparen 8y ago
  A friend in college got a fun letter from the Comptroller of the Currency after writing “A Night in Tehran” on a reimbursement for Iranian food in Chicago.
  - froindt 8y ago
    Did that happen to be the name of the restaurant?
justboxing 8y ago
Apparently people -- even the so called "Smart ones" at Harvard -- just submit their private, personal info. > Zuck: Yeah so if you ever need info about anyone at Harvard > Zuck: Just ask. > Zuck: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SNS > [Redacted Friend's Name]: What? How'd you manage that one? > Zuck: People just submitted it. > Zuck: I don't know why. > Zuck: They "trust me" > Zuck: Dumb fucks. Source: Mark Zuckerberg Called People Who Handed Over Their Data "Dumb F_cks" => https://www.esquire.com/uk/latest-news/a19490586/mark-zuckerberg-called-people-who-handed-over-their-data-dumb-f/ https://www.esquire.com/uk/latest-news/a19490586/mark-zucker...
- ggg9990 8y ago
  In Facebook’s early days, everything you put on the site was shared with your friends. So it was not “private, personal, info” but rather the opposite — information that users wanted to publicize widely. I have never put anything on Facebook that I care whether Mark Zuckerberg reads or not. It would be weird and creepy, for sure, if he was looking at pictures of my baby, but I willingly shared those with over a thousand people so am happy to share with one more.
  - justboxing 8y ago
    > So it was not “private, personal, info” but rather the opposite — information that users wanted to publicize widely SSN is not private, personal info? I've never met anyone online or offline who wanted to publicize their SSN widely. Oh wait... that LifeLock dude.... https://www.wired.com/2010/05/lifelock-identity-theft/ https://www.wired.com/2010/05/lifelock-identity-theft/
    - wgerard 8y ago
      SNS, not SSNs. SNS almost certainly refers to either: 1) Student numbers 2) Screen names (like for AIM)
    - yayadarsh 8y ago
      SNS is meant to mean SN's, or "screennames". This (now-outdated) term refers to messenger accounts (AIM/ICQ) in the pre-Facebook world.
SirYandi 8y ago
Indeed. My guess behind the attraction to such a service would be that a public spending feed could make one more conservative for fear of judgement. Although if its solely for bill-splitting I have no idea why it is public. Surely people's spending history has some value en-masse, why make that public?
Apocryphon 8y ago
I interviewed at PayPal in 2012, and one of the engineering managers there mentioned the concept of social mobile payments- imagine you pay for a beer at a bar, and it shows up in your feed. I was utterly unconvinced by the idea. It felt cargo cult, adding social for the sake of it. A few years later, Venmo goes big among millennials, and later on PayPal buys them. Go figure.
gkoberger 8y ago
Hmm, I think most people use it to pay friends back for brunch or drinks. It's not like you're streaming all your credit card purchases. It's kinda like checking in on Foursquare with friends... it's a public way to expose your social graph a bit. It may not be for you, but people love social media. To put it a different way: it's so successful because, despite there being lots of ways to pay back friends, none of the other ones let you subtly brag that you're out having fun.
- thekingofh 8y ago
  Ugh.
- smacktoward 8y ago
  > It may not be for you, but people love social media People also love heroin and alcohol and tobacco. People love lots of things that are terrible for them.
  - bduerst 8y ago
    People also love exercise, healthy food, and sleep. I don't think payments is something that is social worthy, but comparing them to chemically-addicting substances is a little absurd.
    - musage 8y ago
      That people like something doesn't mean it's good for them, or even makes them happy: anything that some people really like and that is undoubtedly harmful can serve to prove that point. It doesn't put social media and heroin "in the same ballpark", it doesn't even say social media is harmful, it just says the fact that some people like it isn't saying a lot in itself. (I might add, especially not when it comes in the form of "you don't love it but people love it".)
  - gkoberger 8y ago
    If you think letting your friends know you just had brunch is on par with heroin or alcohol... well, damn. I think social media can be unhealthy, and I think the pendulum is beginning to swing back the other way, but I support exploring new ways to communicate with the people around you.
ng12 8y ago
Why not? It seems to be a pretty popular feature -- lots of people post things to be funny and/or brag about their lives. Most of social media exists for people to broadcast their experiences.
gregoriol 8y ago
Technically, that the thing with Bitcoin and other blockchain currencies
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
DesiLurker 8y ago
something something bitcoin
harryh 8y ago
It's not hard to understand. My feed is mostly "friends only" but there are a few public posts too, let's have a look: https://venmo.com/harryh https://venmo.com/harryh 1. Tickets for a band. That's cool. 2. Clearly something amusing about jail. 3. A computer. Computers are fun. 4. MEAT 5. Sci Fi movies. Movies are fun. People do this for the same reason they use twitter or facebook or instagram. To share what they are doing in their life with their friends. Most payments aren't top secret stuff, they're just little notes about people's social life.

owly 8y ago

Wow. Why the hell would anyone use Venmo?

hoffbrau99 8y ago
It is a cultural/generational thing. Millenials don't think twice about this. They are shocked that anyone would care. Non-millennials are shocked that anyone would share their financials publicly. We're all shocked at each other's behavior.
- X-Istence 8y ago
  Excuse me... but as a millennial, and knowing many other millennials that also care, we do absolutely care. There is a long list of people that I know that don't use Venmo because of the "social" crap. Please don't try to brush this as a "millennials don't care".
  - coupdejarnac 8y ago
    Is it necessary to take offense at every general statement? If millennials are the primary users of this product, then what he says is true. It's really tedious to have to couch every general statement in terms that allow for exceptions.
  - aphextron 8y ago
    >Excuse me... but as a millennial, and knowing many other millennials that also care, we do absolutely care. I think by Millenials he really meant to say Gen Z. "Millenials" has become a catch-all term for "young people" over the past 10 years, but the reality is that we are no longer the youngest generation. Older folks just haven't caught up to that fact yet. Anyone below age 25 now is a completely different generation from us. "Getting" Snapchat and Venmo seems to be the dividing line.

simonsarris 8y ago

Cash App (by Square) cares more about your privacy, has more perks, and is IMO from a much better company than PayPal. https://cash.app/ https://cash.app/ They also are doing a lot more. Cash App issues a debit card and allows ATM withdrawals and direct deposit. In effect, they've become a pop-up bank to the under-banked.

jzebedee 8y ago
Square Cash is every bit as bad as PayPal during their early "paypalsucks" days, complete with opaque "security" policies and unreachable support. I have had multiple Cash accounts (one business, a couple personal) which have been stuck in limbo for more than a year. At some point, a transaction must have flagged me because Square reverted all of my recent transactions, locked my funds, and won't process any incoming or outgoing transactions on ANY of my accounts. I've contacted support over and over through their tool, and I have gotten ZERO response. Not even a formulaic "you're off the platform" email. There's no phone support for Square Cash, so outside of my emails going into a black hole, there is no way to get a human to review any of it. I have given up. If the filing fee for a small claims case wasn't higher than the cash I still had left in there, I would have sued them long ago. They are every bit as shady and uncommunicative as PayPal and I would never trust them with my money again.

anothergoogler 8y ago

Nothing in the article about "cheating spouses."

craftyguy 8y ago
> But Venmo users have found it’s also an extremely effective tool for keeping tabs on friends, partners and exes, researching crushes, and in some cases, uncovering infidelity.
- anothergoogler 8y ago
  That line and the article title are unsubstantiated. The three interviews are with two young college students and one 28 year-old guy whose ex-BF has a coke problem. Unless I missed it, there's nothing in the article about a cheating spouse.
  - gowld 8y ago
    It's just HN's daily 2minutes clickbait.
- svnsets 8y ago
  “Not that I care,” she said. “It’s just interesting to see.”

gnicholas 8y ago

When I first created a Venmo account, I was shocked to see users' payments flowing through my feed and immediately found a way to make my payments private. But I could never find a way to effectively unlink the social media account (FB) that I had used to find my first friend/payee. I think I unlinked the account, but I still see payments from all the people that Venmo made me follow as a result of linking the now-unlinked FB account. I haven't used the app in a long time, and I wonder if this mass-unfollow feature has been added. I know they think that people open Venmo to check their feed, but some people find the public feed creepy, and it makes me use the app less in favor of alternatives.

strifey 8y ago
I recently went through and unfollowed 100+ people because there's still no mass-unfollow feature :(
dfee 8y ago
I had no idea you could make your payments “private” by default. Indeed you can, and you can mark all past payments as private by going (on iOS) to: Settings -> Privacy -> Private and Settings -> Privacy -> Past Transactions -> Change All to Private I always had feared I’d forget to set my transactions as private.
ilamont 8y ago
I was also shocked, and immediately set it to private. I registered using an email address (as I do for practically every online service I use) so I don't have to deal with the Facebook dimension. However, for the handful of people I regularly send money to, I can see all of their transactions on the home screen, including business fees (which reveals the freelance rates they charge), family loans, etc. I take it they have not limited their transactions to "private". Regardless, I am amazed that Venmo/PayPal thought sharing payment activity would be a good idea.
- yaur 8y ago
  If it is not private it's a valid thing to use for ad targeting.

slow_donkey 8y ago

It takes a few clicks to make everything private. Either way, I deleted my account last week because Venmo is killing their website and forcing Android/iOS only. I'm not even sure why Venmo caught on, it is the worst option out of all the possible payment systems (fb, Google pay, sq cash...) since they don't deposit cash received into your bank account and rather hold it interest free.

hkmurakami 8y ago
Imo purely user experience and maybe first mover / network effects. I know it's the worst option yet it continues to be the go-to option because it's the most likely service that random friend A or B will have.
eagsalazar2 8y ago
This!! Why why why do people even like Venmo? It is such a bad product and the basic premise of social payments is just totally nuts.
- matte_black 8y ago
  I’ll tell you one reason why, and maybe your curiosity will lead you down further rabbit holes. I use Venmo exclusively for sending money to girls from Tinder. If you look at my stream, you’ll see transactions sending money to tons of babes, often with suggestive comments. Other girls sometimes see this, and decide they too want in on the action. Pretty great what giving out some dollars on the internet can do for your rep. For a developer making six figures in Silicon Valley, it should be no big deal at all.
  - hoffbrau99 8y ago
    That's brilliant
  - chrshawkes 8y ago
    Do you mean sending money to prostitutes? I try to avoid those on Tinder.

nailer 8y ago

Come from a country where people don't use Venmo, and was astounded to read: > Some users seem to forget that their transactions are public by default Well that's (expletive). Secure defaults anyone?

mipmap04 8y ago
While it is weird, it's worth noting that the transaction information it shows just shows who paid who and an optional narrative. They don't show actual dollar amounts. That being said, you can always post privately. Not sure why people post publicly.
- gowld 8y ago
  It's still insane to make that public by default.
  - nailer 8y ago
    Was going to reply but you've basically said it. You could pay an ex-partner when you're not supposed to be seing them, a liquor store when you're supposed to be sober, or a sex worker when you're supposed to be ashamed. Not showing dollar amounts doesn't make this sane.
Fnoord 8y ago
Sane defaults, rather. It is annoying how stuff on Facebook is by default shared with "Public", how applications install malware/adware by default, any advertising-related opt-out. Only positive thing I can say is "they're not the only ones". But that doesn't make it right (Whataboutism). Sad truth is, the software developers or the companies hiring them get away with such immoral choices.
- SilasX 8y ago
  >It is annoying how stuff on Facebook is by default shared with "Public", It does? Mine currently defaults to "friends", and I'm pretty sure the default is just "whatever your last choice was" -- if I set my last one to public, then next time the default value is public.

paulie_a 8y ago

Venmo is owned by PayPal therefore it is garbage and should be avoided.

dang 8y ago
Maybe so, but please don't post unsubstantive comments here.

45h34jh53k4j 8y ago

Who would use Venmo? When I see people buying drugs (see vicemo.com), I shake my head at the stupidity of it all. I have been asked multiple times by people who want to pay me, and I have flatted refused because of there approach to financial privacy. I try to get them to stop using it also, for their own privacy. Lucky we have other options -- I usually get them into cryptocurrency instead. Hey -- its also open by default, but at least its hard to correlate an address to a person.

odonnellryan 8y ago
I'd assume 99% of these are jokes.
- 45h34jh53k4j 8y ago
  True, but its a shame the authorities have no sense of humor.
gowld 8y ago
99% of those "people buying drugs" aren't buying drugs. It reports anything with "drink", "speed", "grass", or "dope", and obvious jokes.
- 45h34jh53k4j 8y ago
  Right, but its just so stupid! People think they are being clever or funny. Its as clever as going into a police station and admitting your crimes. Cool joke!

fermienrico 8y ago

In this thread - "You can do X to make it private." In my view, that is not addressing the main issue with Venmo. Socializing financial transactions shouldn't have taken off from back of the napkin stage. It is simply unbelievable on 2 fronts: 1) Such an app exists and is doing fine 2) People simply do not care about their privacy. I am utterly speechless. Who in the right mind opens up Venmo to just browse what kind of transactions are being made amongst their friends? What kind of social engagement is this? How did the creators of Venmo pitched this idea to investors? So many questions.

45h34jh53k4j 8y ago
Its the world we have made. We make a whole generation of people not care for privacy (FB), and then we are surprised when people assume their finances are not private? We are all collectively to blame for such privacy failures. The users/victims are simply that, victims of our troubled privacy-less future.
trhway 8y ago
"hook them while they're young". With FB/Snap/(whatever teenagers are using these days as closing upon 50 i seem to just don't know :) being probably the gateway drugs.
Zarath 8y ago
I use Venmo and immediately set my preferences to private. Admittedly though, I will browse through the public transactions of my friends out of interest in what they are up to.
iamjaredwalters 8y ago
Venmo solved the pain points of easily transferring money between acquaintances regardless of the financial institutions that money may reside in. Having social interaction in their app is a side affect or the purpose, not the purpose itself.

draw_down 8y ago

This feature is completely nuts. Completely. I can't believe people want any of their payment activity showing up in a public feed. Just, no.

twostorytower 8y ago
Not defending this, but I think the default setting is "Friends". So it's semi-public. But people are generically paying friends back for meals. You can understand why a lot of people wouldn't think of this as a big deal.
- draw_down 8y ago
  I think the "not a big deal" nature of such things is what contributes to them being so potentially insidious; if it was obviously a bad idea nobody would do it. But all the little drips and drops of data you leave around everywhere can add up to something not pretty. I also think I would argue "friends" is basically the same thing as being fully public. Most people have hundreds or thousands of FB "friends".

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

djrogers 8y ago

> Some users seem to forget that their transactions are public by default, and their payment activity provides an unfiltered paper trail of what’s really happening in their lives. This is it in a nutshell - nobody pays attention to privacy settings, and they don't think about the consequences of the fact that they can see other people payments scroll by on their screens.

dpflan 8y ago
I agree. I think there may be social pressure (implied, inherent, made-up) or laziness or unawareness that perpetuates this. You can make private the default setting. The idea of broadcasting your finances only makes sense for social messaging/indicating.

Paul-ish 8y ago

Something about this reads like a viral ad for Venmo. It's as if it is trying to draw you in to the app to see what your friends are doing.

wxuan 8y ago
If it is, its a damn good one!

joelrunyon 8y ago

Is there a simple way to turn off the "feed" function?

BookmarkSaver 8y ago

Guys, people aren't "exposing their finances" on Venmo. People don't use it to buy stuff, or pay off CC bills, or anything. Nor are the transaction amounts exposed. It's used for balancing payments/debts between individuals. I don't consider "A paid B for brunch yesterday" or "X paid Y for Rent+cable" in any way to be "exposing finances". It's just another random (albeit unnecessary) social network, one that takes literally no effort to use or disable. Shocking, young people don't care if others know that they went out to dinner with some friends. It's amazing to me that this level of exposure seems "nuts" to you all and leaves you "speechless". Like, how paranoid and antisocial are you all? Who cares about this stuff? Or is this all just some crazy slippery-slope thing going on in your heads?

gmjoe 8y ago
Thank you... also I'm not sure people realize that you type the description of the transaction, it's not coming from a credit card or something, so you can be as specific/vague/nonsensical/misleading as you want...
DoreenMichele 8y ago
It's amazing to me that this level of exposure seems "nuts" to you all and leaves you "speechless". I'm old. I'm very painfully aware that other people often feel amazingly entitled to have some say in how I spend my life. I have spent a lot of decades arranging a life in which, no, not too many people have any say whatsoever. It's possible that the youth of today are experiencing an unprecedented amount of (social) freedom that their cranky elders lack. If so, good for you. It's also possible that you just haven't yet figured out that information is power, hell is other people and there are lots of crazies in the world who feel incredibly entitled to try to enforce some standard of behavior on you that you won't notice until you try to do something they don't like for some reason, no matter how innocuous.
- BookmarkSaver 8y ago
  What experience do you "cranky elders" have that makes this seem dangerous? What possible malicious intent can be applied to the knowledge that someone shares rent with their roommate, or the occasional bar tab settlement? There aren't even dollar amounts attached, and usually just cryptic emoji messages. Just saying "Information is power" makes it sound like there's been no thought put into the objection at all, I've not seen a single concrete explanation as to how this level of data collection is or could be dangerous. It seems like cowardly hiding behind a blanket principle because of paranoia about anything that can possibly be related to "privacy". >I'm very painfully aware that other people often feel amazingly entitled to have some say in how I spend my life. I have spent a lot of decades arranging a life in which, no, not too many people have any say whatsoever. I have absolutely no clue how this has anything to do with Venmo whatsoever.

Sol- 8y ago

This article has an interesting (and strange) take on the issue, mostly, though with some reservations, characterizing the lack of privacy as something empowering. I liked the anecdotes about people digitally stalking their partners and friends. I guess you can make that argument if you believe that some aspects a post-privacy world is something positive, but it is still strange to read.

a-dub 8y ago

Every time I encounter venmo whoever has it usually apologizes for it and explains that you can turn the weird social stuff off. If that's the case, then what's the point? Moreover, it demonstrates that the people who made it have weird philosophies on things. What other choices have they made that I don't know of, can't turn off and would disagree with? Square Cash is great, btw. No bloat, very simple, does what you expect it to. (I suppose PayPal is looking that way now these days too though)

tetromino_ 8y ago
Square Cash may have less bloat and a far nicer UI, but it charges a percentage for instant deposit, while Venmo has a flat $0.25 fee. So when you don't want to wait three days to get the money to your bank account, you grit your teeth and use Venmo.
X-Istence 8y ago
IIRC you can in Venmo say that its private and thus turn off the weird social thing per payment: https://imgur.com/She6BGE https://imgur.com/She6BGE You can also change the default, although that seems to be an option I don't remember having when I first started using the app... That is located in Settings -> Privacy... although you get a popup saying "You know you can change this per payment, you sure you want to do this" which to me feels weird and pushy. I agree with Square Cash or other services, instead of Venmo since the whole idea of by default sharing my payments feels weird. Apple Pay works really well too if you and the recipient are both Apple users.

wand3r 8y ago

duxup 8y ago

So by default it doesn't say how much you pay or what for... is it supposed to be kinda weirdly mysterious? Also it's kinda funny how money is being used to track cheating here. Outside splitting a bill (we just split it then and there) ... I can't imagine any transactions were tied directly to my SO as in handing over money... maybe that is a generational thing.

u90g4u8904 8y ago

People who like the social feature of venmo: Can you explain why you enjoy monitoring financial transactions between your friends? I'm genuinely perplexed. Is this just a new norm that's emerging in our culture? In my circle of friends, this behavior would be, at least, uninteresting, and at most, intrusive.

shmerl 8y ago
Sounds like snooping feature.

makecheck 8y ago

The whole feed just makes no sense. I will never care if person X just paid person Y, even if I know them and certainly if I don’t.

monochromatic 8y ago

Holy shit, I didn’t realize this is how Venmo works. I was just thinking last week that I should open an account for sending money to friends to settle small balances... but now I don’t want anything to do with the service.

turc1656 8y ago

I am embarrassed (yet again) to admit I am part of the Millennial generation. My generation has effectively destroyed every aspect of both privacy and human interaction. It's truly pathetic.

deleted 8y ago
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jedberg 8y ago

In use Venmo to pay my babysitter. By default when you open the app, it shows the social feed. It’s true, I learn new things about my friends every time I open the app. Sometimes some fairly embarrassing things. Despite the fact that we have a babysitter isn’t private, I still always keep the transaction private.

crazygringo 8y ago

There are so many comments here from people not understanding why anybody would ever want their history to be public, or shocked that that's the default... Here's the thing: you get to type whatever you want, so you turn everything into jokes. Because it's public, you get to make up things that will embarrass your friend. Cryptic emoji. It's fun. It's just silly. When you pay back friends at a bar, you can browse their history and make fun of them. None of the other payment platforms are fun like that!

monocasa 8y ago
Well, you can't have too much fun. If you put something like "ISIS recruitment dues", you can get the money frozen.
pacetherace 8y ago
Financial transactions are covered by a lot of complex laws and regulations. A bad joke may end up costing a lot of time and money to clear your name. It is equivalent to prank calling cops and telling them that a friend sexually assaulted you. Usually, stupid financial transactions bite you at the most inopportune times like when you apply for home mortgages or deal with immigration issues.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- iamjaredwalters 8y ago
  Drawing a comparison between a comment sent to a friend (a communication between two parties that ostensibly know each other) and prank calling the cops is a bit far fetched.
  - jasonjayr 8y ago
    You are not wrong, but anytime you involve a third party in your transaction, especially when it comes to money, they take responsibility for that transfer, and ensuring it complies with all relevant laws. Cash is still king.

coupdejarnac 8y ago

Add me to the list of people who were horrified to see a social feed when I signed up for Venmo. Ain't no way I'm ever going to use it. Though I suppose it would be interesting to see what other people are paying for/getting paid for. Perhaps I know some drug dealers or "professional girlfriends", etc.

iamjaredwalters 8y ago
You may be disappointed. Drug dealers and professional girlfriends are likely still uninterested in paper trails and paying taxes on income.
- coupdejarnac 8y ago
  You say that as if there aren't thousands of examples out there.
  - iamjaredwalters 8y ago
    You have thousands of drug dealers and prostitutes in your feed?!

jonahhorowitz 8y ago

Venmo is evil. They have this whole concept of socializing how we spend money. They're onboarding merchants like they're going to replace credit cards. I don't want my money in a "Venmo account." I want it in my bank account. I don't need all my friends knowing who I'm paying back, and for what. The only time I've used it in the past year is when a guy at a gas station asked to borrow $20 to fill his tank and he paid me back with Venmo. I was worried it was a scam, but it worked out okay. Cash is still king.

partycoder 8y ago

Venmo should accept the rejection of a payment. Someone can publicly send you a payment with any arbitrary message and there is NO way for you to avoid it other than to send the money back.

azurelogic 8y ago

This page was immediately taken over by the ad redirects for free iPhones and crap. Can we get this replaced with a not shady source?

batbomb 8y ago

I'm going to call out AirBnB on this one too. You end up seeing the activities of anyone who has ever tagged you as being part of a trip, even if you haven't signed up for the platform. Worse, you cannot make any part of your AirBnB history private. I'm also not aware if there's a way to separate business from personal accounts other than to sign up twice. I suppose eBay was historically similar, but even with eBay there wasn't this social connectedness aspect that you couldn't quite escape. I understand the review aspect. It's really strange to not have the option of privacy.

lyricaljoke 8y ago

What a lot of people miss about the utility of Venmo is that it lowers the social cost of squaring up minor debts. Think of the example of a large group of friends often gathers in arbitrary subsets of the group to go to dinner. If Alice orders salad every time and Bob orders steak, and we split it down the middle each time, that kind of sucks for Alice. Some people suggest rotating picking up the entire bill between outings, but I'm unconvinced that this really ends up working out equitably in practice. Or, say Dora has a habit of leaving happy hour after the first round, which was picked up by Charlie. It's not a huge cost, but... In a world without instant electronic payment, the meek Alices and Charlies of the world lose out because there's a social cost to asking somebody to repay a small debt (paying <$10 by cash is a hassle). By making these frictionless, I'd argue that Venmo reduces that cost by providing an easy way to equitably split without levying the inconvenience on the restaurant, as with separate checks.

adjkant 8y ago

As someone who uses Venmo regularly and with friends who all have accounts they use regularly, to summarize many of the points below: 1. No one asked for this. This is Paypal trying to make a payments app social and people staying for the payments app despite the social feed. 2. So long as you can change the defaults, no one cares about if the company has sane default settings etc. Millenials / Gen Z care about privacy and most of my friends default to private. A company's defaults is not reflective of the privacy concerns of users because they know they have the better product. 3. Venmo messages are often jokes and payment amounts aren't shown even when public/friends https://qz.com/359903/the-emoji-of-venmo/ https://qz.com/359903/the-emoji-of-venmo/ 4. Square just didn't catch on and Venmo's integration with other apps makes it locked in (Splitwise and Tab to name two main ones. My friends refer to Venmo and those two as the payments holy trinity) 5. This article is crap and no one I know looks at the feed. If you're dumb enough to cheat and use a public Venmo payment, wow. When I hit it on the splash page I see payments from a few people, nothing more interesting than pizza, rent, or utilities. Incredible, I know people have basic functions! The privacy invasion! 6. Most people I know transfer to their bank immediately. The intermediary step is a pain but far less than using any other payment service. I'll get over not earning my .03% interest at my bank and letting Venmo skim the interest on their end to keep the service free. Yes customer service is crap and so is Paypal generally but the reality is that it removes far more pain in life than it creates.

inteleng 8y ago
> 1. No one asked for this. This is Paypal trying to make a payments app social and people staying for the payments app despite the social feed. PayPal acquired Venmo through their acquisition of Braintree.
- adjkant 8y ago
  I'm aware - is there a contradiction above? I didn't mean to imply this is new.

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