5 ms·

It's also hilariously inaccurate. I'm a freelance media buyer of sorts, and it think I works in either manufacturing or HR at a company of 500. The hilariously

by jsonne 8y ago

It's also hilariously inaccurate. I'm a freelance media buyer of sorts, and it think I works in either manufacturing or HR at a company of 500. The hilariously awful levels of inaccuracies this contains is the reason why the Facebook/Google advertising empires chug on. They have the data you need to target ads correctly. Check for yourself (This link also deletes your data from them if you're so inclined.): https://datacloudoptout.oracle.com/registry/ https://datacloudoptout.oracle.com/registry/

SAS721 8y ago
Datalogix data (now part of Oracle Data Cloud) is what powers the creation of Facebook advertising segments. So I don't think its that inaccurate.
- jsonne 8y ago
  I primarily deal in Facebook for most of my clients. The 3rd party behavior targets etc.are notoriously inaccurate. Most bigger Facebook advertisers use lookalike audiences and Facebook first party data instead.
- mpeg 8y ago
  Datalogix is just one of several third parties that were allowed to push matching data to Facebook for the creation of segments (partner categories), as well as Experian, Epsilon, Acxiom, etc. The way it works is not very different from custom audiences, but they are syndicated to every FB marketing api user instead of private to your account and there's a revshare with FB based on usage. So the matching has to be based on one (or more) of the keys listed here: https://developers.facebook.com/docs/marketing-api/audiences-api https://developers.facebook.com/docs/marketing-api/audiences... plus a few extra ones like IDFA/IDFP, probably cookie matching, etc. It's not hard to create a massive audience on Facebook if you're matching on public data like postcodes, but ultimately your understanding of that audience is based on how accurate your data is. Whether you believe that data companies have accurate data or not, it has nothing to do with their segment size on FB. PS. the partner categories program has actually been discontinued as of April 2018, so these third parties will no longer be able to syndicate their data to all FB ads users in the future.
  - cosmie 8y ago
    > PS. the partner categories program has actually been discontinued as of April 2018, so these third parties will no longer be able to syndicate their data to all FB ads users in the future. One thing to point out is that it's true that the Partner program itself has been discontinued, which gets rid of all the 3rd party targeting categories within the self-service interface using Facebook-managed data integrations with those firms. But the ToS[1] rewrite effective 5/25/18 goes out of it's way to ensure that they don't outright prohibit the use of third party data. They just effectively decentralized the usage of it and require ad buyers and the data brokers to have a direct relationship now, and leverage the custom audience functionality you mentioned to do the targeting. And in so doing allowed themselves to become willfully blind to the usage of 3rd party data plus shifting liability onto the advertiser for usage of it. [1] https://www.facebook.com/ads/manage/customaudiences/tos https://www.facebook.com/ads/manage/customaudiences/tos
- sfifs 8y ago
  Nope. FB has their own models. They used to allow DLX to sync and provide their audiences too but discontinued now.
- matchagaucho 8y ago
  IIRC FB only uses (used) Datalogix to match uploaded email lists... plus maybe some consumer cost-per-action ad influence segments.
auslander 8y ago
Checked - 'No Data available for this browser' - but I'm not typical web user :)
- mattnewton 8y ago
  Probably means you use Safari (or an ad blocker). I get a message saying that they can’t track you anyways on iOS safari
  - auslander 8y ago
    Its VPN, Private Tabs (no cookies), uBlock Origin in Medium blocking mode. I guess that's enough.
    - lossolo 8y ago
      I have the same result, uBlock Origin on its own is enough.
  - rococode 8y ago
    uBlock Origin alone is probably enough (although I have PrivacyBadger too). The data wouldn't even load for me until I turned off uBlock haha (I get no data as well).
  - NearAP 8y ago
    I got the same message and I'm using Chrome, no ad blocker and I'm not in incognito mode.
mynewtb 8y ago
I get a certificate error on that.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
mattnewton 8y ago
The most interesting thing to me was not only how wrong many of the data points were, but how many data points in the same category I matched. My income is one of three different brackets, my age is one of three different brackets, my location is one of three different wrong places (which I would expect to be the easiest to get right?) It’s like there is some heuristic that cuts off the top 2-3 categories. Wish I had more data points to see if I am an outlier or if that is actually how the model constructs this bag of labels.
- auslander 8y ago
  Try your family :)
busterarm 8y ago
They came in to the last company that I worked at to pitch us on this. We spent somewhere around 200 million a year on advertising and they wanted a chunk of that. Their pitch involved bringing roughly 30 people into a room for three of them to do demos/presentations/q&a. Definitely the shock and awe approach. Unfortunately for them, we weren't totally clueless. The claims they made about their data and what it would do for us were pretty laughable. I don't know whose idea it was to let them pitch us but it was a total waste of a day.
- shostack 8y ago
  Having sat in on my fair share of such ad sales pitches in the past, can you share any more details of the types of claims they made?
castlecrasher2 8y ago
Must be getting slammed, all I see is "Your data is loading"
- realusername 8y ago
  It does that if you have an ad-blocker.
spullara 8y ago
Nothing in Safari and hilariously wrong data in Chrome.
- auslander 8y ago
  Just thinking, if I would be Oracle, how much data would I put in this page? :)
gowld 8y ago
Which domains do I need to unblock in uBlock Origin in order to make that app work?
staplers 8y ago
Now imagine companies out there secretly throwing away your resume or rejecting your loan request based on incorrect data like this. It's not something a web dev will generally need to worry about but for working class blue-collar citizens this is a real nightmare they unknowingly facing.
- astura 8y ago
  I posted this a few days ago, but it bears repeating; If insurance companies and employers use that information (as well as creditors) it become subject to the FCRA; as well as subject to state, local, and federal laws about lending, insurance underwriting, and employment. This information merely existing (for advertising purposes) doesn't suddenly make it legal to use it in specifically illegal ways. For example, it's a standard practice to use a person's credit history and credit score during insurance underwriting - data shows people who are responsible with credit have less claims, so they have lower premiums. However, say you live in Massachusetts. In Massachusetts it's illegal for insurance companies to take your credit history and credit score into account when determining policy premiums. So insurance companies are not allowed to access your credit if you live in Massachusetts even though that information is widely available and used in other states.
  - staplers 8y ago
    I said "secretly" for a reason. Because every company does everything by the book ;)

by jsonne 8y ago

SAS721 8y ago

Datalogix data (now part of Oracle Data Cloud) is what powers the creation of Facebook advertising segments. So I don't think its that inaccurate.

jsonne 8y ago
I primarily deal in Facebook for most of my clients. The 3rd party behavior targets etc.are notoriously inaccurate. Most bigger Facebook advertisers use lookalike audiences and Facebook first party data instead.
mpeg 8y ago
Datalogix is just one of several third parties that were allowed to push matching data to Facebook for the creation of segments (partner categories), as well as Experian, Epsilon, Acxiom, etc. The way it works is not very different from custom audiences, but they are syndicated to every FB marketing api user instead of private to your account and there's a revshare with FB based on usage. So the matching has to be based on one (or more) of the keys listed here: https://developers.facebook.com/docs/marketing-api/audiences-api https://developers.facebook.com/docs/marketing-api/audiences... plus a few extra ones like IDFA/IDFP, probably cookie matching, etc. It's not hard to create a massive audience on Facebook if you're matching on public data like postcodes, but ultimately your understanding of that audience is based on how accurate your data is. Whether you believe that data companies have accurate data or not, it has nothing to do with their segment size on FB. PS. the partner categories program has actually been discontinued as of April 2018, so these third parties will no longer be able to syndicate their data to all FB ads users in the future.
- cosmie 8y ago
  > PS. the partner categories program has actually been discontinued as of April 2018, so these third parties will no longer be able to syndicate their data to all FB ads users in the future. One thing to point out is that it's true that the Partner program itself has been discontinued, which gets rid of all the 3rd party targeting categories within the self-service interface using Facebook-managed data integrations with those firms. But the ToS[1] rewrite effective 5/25/18 goes out of it's way to ensure that they don't outright prohibit the use of third party data. They just effectively decentralized the usage of it and require ad buyers and the data brokers to have a direct relationship now, and leverage the custom audience functionality you mentioned to do the targeting. And in so doing allowed themselves to become willfully blind to the usage of 3rd party data plus shifting liability onto the advertiser for usage of it. [1] https://www.facebook.com/ads/manage/customaudiences/tos https://www.facebook.com/ads/manage/customaudiences/tos
sfifs 8y ago
Nope. FB has their own models. They used to allow DLX to sync and provide their audiences too but discontinued now.
matchagaucho 8y ago
IIRC FB only uses (used) Datalogix to match uploaded email lists... plus maybe some consumer cost-per-action ad influence segments.

auslander 8y ago

Checked - 'No Data available for this browser' - but I'm not typical web user :)

mattnewton 8y ago
Probably means you use Safari (or an ad blocker). I get a message saying that they can’t track you anyways on iOS safari
- auslander 8y ago
  Its VPN, Private Tabs (no cookies), uBlock Origin in Medium blocking mode. I guess that's enough.
  - lossolo 8y ago
    I have the same result, uBlock Origin on its own is enough.
- rococode 8y ago
  uBlock Origin alone is probably enough (although I have PrivacyBadger too). The data wouldn't even load for me until I turned off uBlock haha (I get no data as well).
- NearAP 8y ago
  I got the same message and I'm using Chrome, no ad blocker and I'm not in incognito mode.

mynewtb 8y ago

I get a certificate error on that.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

mattnewton 8y ago

The most interesting thing to me was not only how wrong many of the data points were, but how many data points in the same category I matched. My income is one of three different brackets, my age is one of three different brackets, my location is one of three different wrong places (which I would expect to be the easiest to get right?) It’s like there is some heuristic that cuts off the top 2-3 categories. Wish I had more data points to see if I am an outlier or if that is actually how the model constructs this bag of labels.

auslander 8y ago
Try your family :)

busterarm 8y ago

They came in to the last company that I worked at to pitch us on this. We spent somewhere around 200 million a year on advertising and they wanted a chunk of that. Their pitch involved bringing roughly 30 people into a room for three of them to do demos/presentations/q&a. Definitely the shock and awe approach. Unfortunately for them, we weren't totally clueless. The claims they made about their data and what it would do for us were pretty laughable. I don't know whose idea it was to let them pitch us but it was a total waste of a day.

shostack 8y ago
Having sat in on my fair share of such ad sales pitches in the past, can you share any more details of the types of claims they made?

castlecrasher2 8y ago

Must be getting slammed, all I see is "Your data is loading"

realusername 8y ago
It does that if you have an ad-blocker.

spullara 8y ago

Nothing in Safari and hilariously wrong data in Chrome.

auslander 8y ago
Just thinking, if I would be Oracle, how much data would I put in this page? :)

gowld 8y ago

Which domains do I need to unblock in uBlock Origin in order to make that app work?

staplers 8y ago

Now imagine companies out there secretly throwing away your resume or rejecting your loan request based on incorrect data like this. It's not something a web dev will generally need to worry about but for working class blue-collar citizens this is a real nightmare they unknowingly facing.

astura 8y ago
I posted this a few days ago, but it bears repeating; If insurance companies and employers use that information (as well as creditors) it become subject to the FCRA; as well as subject to state, local, and federal laws about lending, insurance underwriting, and employment. This information merely existing (for advertising purposes) doesn't suddenly make it legal to use it in specifically illegal ways. For example, it's a standard practice to use a person's credit history and credit score during insurance underwriting - data shows people who are responsible with credit have less claims, so they have lower premiums. However, say you live in Massachusetts. In Massachusetts it's illegal for insurance companies to take your credit history and credit score into account when determining policy premiums. So insurance companies are not allowed to access your credit if you live in Massachusetts even though that information is widely available and used in other states.
- staplers 8y ago
  I said "secretly" for a reason. Because every company does everything by the book ;)