9 ms·
How ‘Authentic Relating’ Made Vulnerability a Movement (2017)
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 8y agoThroughout much of human history, extended family, shared locality(ie village), and/or religion used to provide people with a sense of community. With the breakdown of all three in the Western world, it is not surprising that commmunity and the intimacy that goes along with are are now being monetized.
- trhway 8y agoHuman weaknesses have been monetized, exploited and preyed upon by other humans through all the known history. Yearning for the community/intimacy is a weakness that religion for example has been exploiting all that time, and now others is getting a piece of that pie.
- trhway 8y agocan't edit, so excuse my self-replying. At least some religion had some "exercises" like caring about and helping the less fortunate, like the poor, etc. What the article describes seems to be extremely self focused/centered on "I" and "myself", kind of very narcissistic.
- krageon 8y ago"Yearning for the community/intimacy is a weakness" Do you seriously believe all human needs are just weakness? What will someone's life be like if all that 'weakness' was removed? To my mind, it'd be incredibly dull.
- trhway 8y agoNot all needs, and even the same need can be either strength or weakness. For example - just being afraid of "dull" is kind of weakness where is curiosity and drive for exploration is more like a strength. The same for the community - needing it in order just to not feel lonely (basically to satisfy your own need) looks to be a weakness where is wanting/building community/team to achieve some goal looks more like a strength to me.
- coleifer 8y agoMade me think of some of my own experiences with 12-step meetings. I have seen that it's possible to share vulnerably, and to do it with dignity and grace. I've also seen first-hand what acceptance and honest sharing can do for a person's sense of self-worth. It's too bad this kind of interaction with others is so hard to find. I don't know that I would have ever found it, if I felt I had another choice.
- bmpafa 8y agohttps://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability
- aantix 8y agoI find most people will be vulnerable if you start the conversation that way by exposing your own vulnerability. The book Conscious Loving touches on “telling the microscopic truth” which provides a lot of tactics for telling messy, complicated feelings. It’s a wonderful read and will improve your relationships.
- fjsolwmv 8y agoExposing vulnerabilities is also how con artists and cults build rubes' trust.
- emodendroket 8y agoThat doesn't seem to disprove the thesis.
- krageon 8y agoThat is true, however I think the point GP is making is that the failure mode is too catastrophic to actually entertain it as a possibility (I'm not saying I agree)
- 8y ago
- radicaldreamer 8y agoIt was bound to happen as more and more of our personal lives are turning into personal brand-building moments... and as the mechanics of capitalism have permeated ever increasing swaths of people's time. There is a building backlash and this is just seems like a stop gap, therapeutic measure.
- tjr225 8y agoSome times I wonder if the Algorithms getting better, or are we simplifying our humanity to make it easier for the algorithms to interpret?
- analognoise 8y agoThis is depressing for a reason I can't really articulate. There are this many people with unresolved issues, or a lack of connections, or is it an outgrowth of the self-centered oversharing movement? I wonder if most of these people have kids or not, or plan on it.
- swsieber 8y agoIt's probably a mix of all of it, but there are more people struggling than it first appears. Relevant quote from a prominent leader in a church I attend: When I was a young man, I served as counselor to a wise district president in the Church. He tried to teach me. One of the things I remember wondering about was this advice he gave: "When you meet someone, treat them as if they were in serious trouble, and you will be right more than half the time." I thought then that he was pessimistic. Now, more than 40 years later, I can see how well he understood the world and life.
- linkmotif 8y agoThanks for passing this on.
- coleifer 8y agoI don't think there's an easy answer. There's a story that may be relevant: a guy is standing on the beach. He's completely aflame and seems to be looking around. Another guy approaches and says "Hey! Jump in the water!" And the on-fire guy says "Yeah, after I find out where the fire came from." Humans need connection. Some more than others. Imagine how tightly-knit human societies had to be for the bulk of human history. Whether this is the right answer, I have no idea, but it seems like people are grasping for something like connection.
- carapace 8y agoIt seems like anti-EST https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erhard_Seminars_Training https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erhard_Seminars_Training
- thinkling 8y agoThat's an interesting observation. While EST has the reputation of having been abusive, its descendant The Landmark Forum is not. A lot of The Forum consists of people opening up about their lives, their fears and emotions, events that have shaped them, and their inner life. Of course the attendees are a self-selecting group, but my #1 take-away from The Forum was the discovery that everyone else in the room was insecure, too. The stories they shared were fascinating and worth the price of admission.
- mirimir 8y agoIn my experience, "authentic relating" was a major part of est, and has remained a major part of Landmark Education. All of their programs involve verbal sharing, one-to-one and full-group. Also nonverbal sharing that they call "being with". Also, I'm sure that many found est programs abusive. It was certainly much harder. Rather like military boot camp. Long sessions that didn't end until everyone "got it". The "Six Day", for example. I doubt that it could be done today. Just four hours sleep, at most. Running uphill for maybe one km every morning at dawn. A being-with exercise in swimming suits, in a pattern that had everyone eventually face everyone else. No coffee, tea, tobacco, or other drugs. A ropes course. What a trip :)
- megous 8y agoThe Landmark Forum looks about as controversial as the similar russian cults I've been reading about in "Nothing is true and everything is possible." The Forum also has mentions in the literature about cults.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- nuriaB 8y agoIgnore me, i'm just replying for educative purposes.
- nish1500 8y agoI have been with quite a few relating groups spanning a few countries. The author's experience reflects what most newcomers feel. However, I find the demographic very surprising. The relating groups I frequent had more women than men, and very few people under 30.
- zestyping 8y agoI'd love to see more of these kinds of interactions between people with differences. Can you imagine what would happen if people of different races or cultures did this? Or if a mix of Republicans and Democrats did this? I guess it might be harder to find common experiences, but there would still be some.
- taurath 8y agoI've found one of the most common things to be "I was really down and depressed and was crashing on couches and didn't have a place to live, and I was helped by ______" - for some people it was like, some christian charity or group, and others its like some social worker who took the time to help me out. That ends up being the difference between what side one is on later in political terms.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- mistermann 8y agoYou may like this channel (someone recommended to me but I haven't watched yet): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJjSDX-jUChzOEyok9XYRJQ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJjSDX-jUChzOEyok9XYRJQ https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBVNJo7nhINSVQXlPu7xWDKX0Nz7NW8yo https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBVNJo7nhINSVQXlPu7xW...
- kirykl 8y agoThose ‘games’ are Meisner technique acting exercises
- stevewillows 8y agoMany years ago I used to listen to Lino Rulli on the Catholic Channel (XM radio). I considered myself a christian at the time, but not catholic. Nevertheless, his show was hilarious and I tried to listen as often as possible. They had this segment called 'minor confessions' where people would confess things that were pretty inconsequential, but still honest. Around that time I was on a road trip with some friends and I thought it'd be fun to play the game. I figured it'd be goofy and kill a few minutes while we waited for a 'Q'. It didn't take long before the game turned into one of the most genuine and honest experiences of our relationship together. It was surprising how quickly we skipped past the minor and got into some pretty heavy stuff. Years later I found myself in a booth at a pub with a bunch of dudes from church essentially having a doubt-group. A friend started out with questioning the divinity of Jesus -- and it carried from there. Only a few years ago I was in a depression group therapy program provided by my local hospital --- and the same raw honestly and openness prevailed. For me it was clear that early on I wanted this openness and honesty in my everyday life and not just a few times every few years and I've made a concerted effort to make it so. At first it was tough to overcome the fear or fear of shame, but once I got into the habit of it, I discovered that people value vulnerability and will often mirror this in the relationship. There is also a line between being honest about struggles and stuff and being a whiner or a chronic complainer. I think it all boils down to your intention --- are you being open and honest for the attention or purely for the sake of something free and beautiful. I truly hope that 'Authentic relating' catches on... but maybe without a formal title or 'movement.'
- swsieber 8y agoThis comes from religious perspective, and one probably not widely shared (idk), so I expect this to be taken with a grain of salt: (hopefully, it is still comforting) God's purpose is not to make us comfortable or to make life easy. It is to make us better, and happier. As part of that setup and goal, there are a couple of ways we can experience hard times. It can be from our own actions, and even the actions of others. Other times, it can be because we are doing things right, and are ready to grow and push our limits. My point is this: experiencing a hard time doesn't mean you are doing anything wrong - it can come just as easily to someone doing everything right as to someone doing everything wrong. And in both cases, it can feel much the same Bonus Analogy: When searching for the absolute maxima in a 3d plane, you can be at low point for one of two reasons - either you're not doing it right and aren't actually heading uphill, or you reached a local maxima, and need to go lower in order to reach higher heights. Corollary: We don't get to judge others for their hard times :)
- Aaargh20318 8y ago> God's purpose is not to make us comfortable or to make life easy. It is to make us better, and happier. I'm not religious and I don't think life has a purpose, but this sounds like a contradiction. How can life be good if it's not comfortable and easy ? You're basically saying she's making life better by making it worse. That makes no sense. > My point is this: experiencing a hard time doesn't mean you are doing anything wrong - it can come just as easily to someone doing everything right as to someone doing everything wrong Of course it doesn't, but that doesn't mean there is some higher power guiding it. Life is just random, bad stuff happens for no reason, so does good stuff.
- anonthrowaway2 8y agoHaving some challenges is more fun than just vegging all day. Having too many challenges, maybe not, but some? Necessary for most people's happiness.
- abraae 8y ago> How can life be good if it's not comfortable and easy ? Really? As soon as you encounter discomfort or difficulty, life's no longer good? That philosophy will be wearying over the years.
- switch_kickflip 8y agoI think there is tremendous potential in baking in these sorts of games into some kind of chat application. The creators of Chatroulette originally wanted an app that could connect people around the world, it just turned out become a platform for people exposing themselves over webcam. If you could avoid that, and build a platform that nudges people into building these intimate conversations across the world, you might bring huge value to a world where people are increasingly lonely.
- majos 8y agoOmegle used to do something like this. The random stranger chats often started with prompts (but I don't remember what they were).
- megous 8y ago> Authentic relating uses exercises, or games, to teach the skills necessary to quickly create deep, meaningful human connection. You can not create deep meaningful human connection quickly. It's just a game with emotions. A game plenty of organizations and cult gurus abuse for money and power. If a person feels safe he might talk about things he would not otherwise. Yes. But deep meaningful connection requires both people knowing each other for a long time, spending a lot of time together and living through a lot of different situations, both hard and easy, dead serious and playful.
- stared 8y agoHighly related (no pun intended): "How to make a friend fast" based on research https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14731181 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14731181 When it comes to me, I learnt about the positive aspect of vulnerability from Mark Manson's "Models". It's one of the two key points of this book, after "non-neediness".
- megous 8y agoWhat positive aspect was it? I have a tainted view of vulnerability as I saw it preached for years by someone who turned out to be a world class opportunist and manipulator. Some youtube personality I'll not mention the name of, because he seems to thrive on negative publicity these days. It's one of those human ideas that a zebra would not understand as Sapolsky would say. Try explaining to a zebra benefits of being vulnerable. :)
- rusk 8y agohe seems to thrive on negative publicity these days. Can only be that Canadian guy ... Try explaining to a zebra As pack animals, intra-zebra emotional intelligence is essential for maintaining the cohesion of the herd. Looking from the outside it's hard to see this as all we see is the daily struggle for survival.
- megous 8y ago
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- deewelch 8y agoyou cannot say 100% that a Vulnerability movement is authentic. Because lies were also witing in every movement.
- deewelch 8y agoIt is not 100% sure that a Vulnerability movement is authentic. There are always lies within a movement.
- dvanduzer 8y agoWebsite: Help me relate this to the Web of Trust