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Sewage Is Helping Cities Flush Out the Opioid Crisis
- aae42 8y agoare there privacy concerns here?
- freehunter 8y agoThe question is could you identify any usable DNA from this waste? And I would expect the answer to be no looking at the bottles. It's a slurry mix of everyone's waste (human or otherwise, lots of stuff gets washed down the drain), so tracing a positive hit on drugs back to the house or person it came from seems like it would be exceedingly difficult to do. The best you could do is narrow it down to any homes upstream of sample collection, which could be a single neighborhood or an entire city. Or it could be a drifter peeing straight into the sewer grate who doesn't even live in the city.
- dustfinger 8y agoAlso Hypochlorous acid reacts, albeit slowly, with DNA and RNA. > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypochlorous_acid#Reaction_with_DNA_and_nucleotides https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypochlorous_acid#Reaction_w... That fact might make any DNA matching inconclusive.
- opportune 8y agoYes, to an extent. Not sure how many individuals’ DNA ends up in a given sewage sample http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18769715 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18769715
- tomjen3 8y agoGood question. Well if you mix an entire suburb or city block? Probably not, but I imagine that there could be some issues when those robots become cheap enough that you can get it down to house level. Even if you cannot monitor all houses everywhere you could sample houses. And you wouldn't want that, because then your sample data becomes useless and people start to shit in their back yards, or in public parks. That said I am still looking for the toilet that does urin analyses ala The Island, I just only want it to tell me, and let me choose to inform my doctor.
- vuln 8y agoPeople don't normally shit in their backyard? Now I know why the elderly gentleman next door keeps glaring at me at 530 am.
- dustfinger 8y ago> I just only want it to tell me, and let me choose to inform my doctor. I totally agree. It would be wonderful if there was an inexpensive device (it doesn't need to be a toilet) that could perform thorough health analysis, but inform only the user and not any third party. i.e. no Dr or pharmaceutical companies, the producer or manufacturer, the user's insurance broker, ad / marketing companies etc. Absolutely nobody but the user. I want to trust technology like this because it could perform a profound public good, but untrustworthy companies keep being identified that have ulterior motives (for all sorts of technology, not this specifically).
- xori 8y agoIt's going to have to contact a 3rd party to download the latest health diagnostics/flu of the week/software updates. And speaking of "public good" it would be extremely beneficial to scientists and doctors if that information was made available to them. And beneficial to you, because that device could be improved to give you a better, more informed diagnosis. The question is what do you care more about, your health? Or your insurance premium? EDIT: Of course you would want to anonymize it, but you could only go so far while making it still useful. If you unfocused it to a neighbourhood, insurance premiums would go up for bad areas, and the housing market would fluctuate with the health of it's residence. On the upside, cities and landowners would be incentivized to now care about the health of their residents. So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- dustfinger 8y agoThank you for your input. You brought up some important points. > On the upside, cities and landowners would be incentivized to now care about the health of their residents. So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That would be an interesting consequence.
- notatoad 8y agoThis is HN, somebody will have a privacy concern
- TimTheTinker 8y agoAnyone who is at all security conscious will have privacy concerns when (potentially) personal data is involved. Nothing wrong with that.
- elvirs 8y agothere is no personal data in public sewer
- B1FF_PSUVM 8y agoThe public sewer extends right up to each building ... like trash collection, already used for data gathering.
- unethical_ban 8y agoNo. Long answer: Not really. If it is aggregated to a point that you can't tell who it's coming from specifically, it seems like less of a worry. If they installed it at each toilet... different. Also - I'm okay with it as long as it is not used to issue warrants. I would take another look at it if they did.
- brigade 8y agoIn the US, there's no expectation of privacy in stuff you've discarded.
- aae42 8y agoGuess I better start saving all my poop
- dustfinger 8y agoLOL! Thanks for that one. It has been a long day and you just gave me my first reason to laugh.
- toomanybeersies 8y agoI can absolutely see police forces using this data to target law enforcement to specific suburbs or blocks, based on the concentration of drugs and metabolites in the wastewater.
- Nasrudith 8y agoOpiods use ttacking seem like one of the potentially less reliable uses for it given legitimate users and high tolerances. It brings to mind a squeaky clean high school in the same pipe as retirement homes and veteran's centers where there are plenty of chronic pain patients and concluding the school must have a drug problem. I am aware that there are statistical levels of usage beyond what would be remotely probable without the area literally being designated for chronic pain patients. Meanwhile you can't go wrong with looking for disease tracking.
- dontchooseanick 8y agoW.w.w.whaat ?
- Proven 8y agoScientific celebration of fascist surveillance.
- joshe 8y agoBiobot Analytics (YC W18) is possibly the "Massachusetts Institute of Technology–affiliated company" mentioned in the article. They will "scour the waste pipes with robots that suck up sewage, measure drug amounts and remotely report the data". http://www.biobot.io/ http://www.biobot.io/ The Techcrunch write up: https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/20/these-are-the-64-startups-unveiled-at-y-combinator-w18-demo-day-2/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/03/20/these-are-the-64-startups-... mentions "they hope to also measure pharmaceuticals, infectious disease and food consumption". Infectious disease finding could be really cool. Imagine easily mapping where a zika outbreak was happening an hour after an infected person uses the restroom. That same day you could do mosquito abatement and post flyers to come to the hospital for treatment.
- alexpotato 8y agoI was reading a book[1] on bacteria phages aka viruses that attack bacteria and they mentioned that in countries that used phages (e.g. Soviet Russia due to a lack of antibiotics), the sewage plant is the first place they would go to look for phages to combat intestinal diseases. There were large amounts of the offending bacteria so it was a prime place to find viruses that had evolved to fight them. [1] Viruses vs Superbugs https://amzn.to/2IZXZiJ https://amzn.to/2IZXZiJ
- shams93 8y agoSpending money on trying to find out who is addicted to opiates is a massive waste compared to offering treatment on demand everywhere. It's a very safe bet to assume that opiate addiction is in every community across the board.
- fragmede 8y agoI very much doubt that the percentage of the population addicted to opiates is constant across every county in the country, but even if that were true, it's impossible to prove (or disprove) without metrics. In the real world where there's limited funding, it's just not possible to replace every Starbucks with a treatment center, so communities need to find ways to make those limited resources as effective as possible, and what's more effective than using data about where more opioids are being used?
- lostlogin 8y agoIt really isn’t. Perhaps it’s similar across large areas, but how do you know without measuring? Surely areas with a larger problem should attract more funding than those with less of a problem? That’s how other diseases are treated so why not this?
- wjn0 8y agoThis has potential to not just answer the question "who's using?" but "does x affect usage?" which is potentially much more useful, because it not only localizes treatment but also informs it.
- totalZero 8y agoPhrase this as a positive rather than pejorative statement, and it seems far less compelling. "Offering treatment on demand everywhere is massively cheaper than trying to find out who is addicted to opiates." 1. Why can't you do both? 2. Treatment on demand can be marketed and tailored based on information about users. 3. I'm not sure it's a safe bet that opiate addiction is in every community. Seems like a false assumption. To my knowledge there are geographic differences, economic differences, and medical access differences between cohorts that use and those that don't. The danger of disparaging an idea before it reaches maturity is that criticism may actually be incorrect, and discourage/dissuade positive developments. You can get the same criticism across without being counterproductive.
- everyone 8y agoSewage is “the information superhighway under your feet,” Life imitates art? https://youtu.be/DJklHwoYgBQ https://youtu.be/DJklHwoYgBQ
- RankingMember 8y agoI was thinking the exact same thing when I read that haha. Part of the genius of that bit is that it's such a believable product in this day and age.
- test6554 8y agobravo. It took me a couple minutes to figure out this was fake. But then it kept on giving and giving.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- joe_the_user 8y agoSome have claimed the opioid epidemic is merely part of the "epidemic of despair" [1]. I am inclined to agree. This may sound harsh but I am inclined to say, instead of sifting shit, cities might consider ways to find to decent jobs, housing and recreation for their citizens. What else can be said? All this a product of the redistribution of wealth upward in an ostensibly wealthy society? What could possibly go wrong? [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5607670/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5607670/
- firstplacelast 8y agoUnfortunately, those that need those jobs and need help with their addiction cannot advocate for this. No one will listen. Until the rich and successful advocate for it, it will never happen. So don’t hold your breath.
- frozenport 8y agoThe opioid epidemic is uniquely American, plenty of places are experiencing economic inequality. Don't let health care providers and pharma off the hook.
- klibertp 8y agoI vouched for this comment specifically to refute it: it's not uniquely American at all. With 5 seconds of searching I get this article: https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2015/04/18/a-pill-for-work-and-play https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2015/04/18/... which states: "A painkiller becomes Egypt’s favourite recreational drug". It's from 2015 - just yesterday I read on my local news site that there are at least 3 million people addicted to opioids in Egypt. The topic comes up fairly regularly in the Middle East context. It's not just the Middle East, you can find a lot of other examples all over the world. So, no: not uniquely American at all.
- keypress 8y agoSome people just enjoy taking opioids. But the problem with opioids is that they are slightly moreish.
- flashman 8y agoAustralia recently proposed (and later shelved) drug-testing welfare recipients in certain localities. These areas were to be chosen partially due to the level of illicit drugs and metabolites in their waste water. So, welfare recipients may find themselves drug tested not because they use drugs, but because the people around them do. It stinks of collective punishment.
- rozenmd 8y agoThey didn't shelve it, they're just trialing it now: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/may/07/senate-inquiry-endorses-coalitions-plan-to-drug-test-welfare-recipients https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/may/07/senat...
- duxup 8y agoTo what end? So they can go from a desperate drug user to a very desperate drug user?
- stephen_g 8y agoSadly, from the way they legislate it’s almost as if the conservative Government’s welfare policy is actually intended to dehumanise and punish the poor and unemployed instead of actually helping them... Luckily there will be an election in the next year and they are down in the polls.
- duxup 8y agoSadly it isn't just an Australian thing :( I just don't get it. I mean I do get it, in the US it's largely wealthy donors pushing policy that is really all about cutting anything to get them short term tax breaks or whatever..... but damn it if you're really fiscally conservative then finding programs that get these people off welfare and paying taxes is a GOOD THING, but no... just cut everything....
- toomanybeersies 8y agoBecause the Liberal Party (which in Australia is actually the conservative party, confusingly) believes that being poor or addicted to drugs are moral failings, and not due to poor social support and the environment around them.
- mirimir 8y agoIf prescription opioids were available legally to addicts, there would be much less of an overdose problem. https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/treating-heroin-addiction-with-heroin-what-you-need-to-know-w494829 https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/treating-heroin-ad... https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-drug-decriminalization.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/opinion/sunday/portugal-d... https://www.springboardrecovery.com/switzerlands-approach-heroin-epidemic/ https://www.springboardrecovery.com/switzerlands-approach-he...
- himom 8y agoYup. Portugal and Prohibition also proved it yet again. Drugs, gambling and prostitution oughta be decriminalized in order to drive out the criminal element from the supply side and drive down the risks on provider & consumer sides. For-profit prisons, desperate small towns towns and greedy politicians benefiting, plus the revelations of Ehrlichman of the Nixon administration’s intent (WoD targeted the admin’s enemies: hippies and blacks), make it and outlawing of other vices perversely-corrupt in the extreme. Let’s not forget the 13th amendment loophole expressly endorses slavery of prisoners. https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-rich... http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/news/geo-group-earns-over-600-000-a-year-from-prisoners-phone-calls-644357 http://www.browardpalmbeach.com/news/geo-group-earns-over-60... http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/five-reasons-boca-private-prison-company-geo-group-is-evil-9967258 http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/five-reasons-boca-private-...
- test6554 8y agoSewage is “the information superhighway under your feet,” says Rolf Halden. Download has a whole new meaning.
- dumbneurologist 8y ago> Flush Out the Opioid Crisis "Clever" titles are annoying to me, and more so when they degrade the clarity of the message. What does "flushing out" even mean, in the context of the opioid crisis? Fixing it? Measuring the crisis? Identifying hot spots? Focusing resources? Identifying specific types of narcotics? The author has decided that "I am clever" is a more important message than whatever the point of the article is. If you exert editorial control over anything, fight the temptation to be clever; especially when it obscures the real message.